The state of UK politics

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Son of Leeds
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Son of Leeds » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:04 am

Re RLB.

The oldest init-semitic trope is falsities about their export of bad practice/evil to decent societies; Christian blood in rituals, corrupting the financial system (Soros), the military (Dreyfuss), the law, whatever, to bring down our moral society. The RLB falsity fits that pattern. If you are going to say something inflammatory, that follows an old anti-semitic trope, and want to hold ministerial office, make sure you get the facts right.
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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:40 am

But for some aspects of anti terrorism policing (I don'tknow in this particular case) the statement would not have been false.

Equating it to blood libel seems a bit strong.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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The Tin Man
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:25 pm

Re: The state of UK politics

Postby The Tin Man » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:53 am

That's a good post SOL and the suggestion that the chokehold that killed George Floyd was exported from Israel could feed into the first anti-semetic trope you mention. I accept that and it was a mistake for Maxine Peake to publish that.
There seems to be a consensus that there has been sharing of practice between US and Israel law enforcement agencies. This from the non-controversial Jewish virtual library https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jo ... t-training

I have also heard of close cooperation between the Australian and Israeli law enforcement agencies.

However the fact there there IS anti-semitism must not distract from the real violence perpetrated by the Israeli law enforcement agencies and the fanatical settler communities to Palestinians - the continual theft of land, the appropriation of homes, the bulldozing of Palestinian homes etc.
For every step,the footprint was already there.

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Devi
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Devi » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:26 am

It was a mistake by Peake, but the difference is she’s retracted and apologised. RLB holds (held) a shadow position, and hasn’t.

That said:



Oh and the equalities report is due out this week. That’ll go well... :roll:
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jackos
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby jackos » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:21 am

The Tin Man wrote:That's a good post SOL and the suggestion that the chokehold that killed George Floyd was exported from Israel could feed into the first anti-semetic trope you mention. I accept that and it was a mistake for Maxine Peake to publish that.
There seems to be a consensus that there has been sharing of practice between US and Israel law enforcement agencies. This from the non-controversial Jewish virtual library https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jo ... t-training

I have also heard of close cooperation between the Australian and Israeli law enforcement agencies.

However the fact there there IS anti-semitism must not distract from the real violence perpetrated by the Israeli law enforcement agencies and the fanatical settler communities to Palestinians - the continual theft of land, the appropriation of homes, the bulldozing of Palestinian homes etc.



Hardly a surprise that Israeli security forces cooperate with Western security forces though is it? Sweden is “neutral” but it security and law enforcement agencies do the same. Swedish special forces train in the US, NATO forces train in Sweden and our police forces cooperate all the time. Not sure Sweden has a lot of cooperation with Israel as the Social Democratic Party has been a sponsor of the Palestinian cause and especially the PLO for decades.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:43 am

I think people forget how many countries quietly sent police and soldiers into Ulster to embed and train in an urban guerrilla warfare setting.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:59 am

I think my summary of the RLB thing is something like:

- It’s objectively true to say that a) Israeli security forces are known to have acted like savage totalitarian bastards, and b) that they train others. It’s also true that lots of other police forces train others eg ours training Sa udis.
- It may or may not be true that the US police learned the knee choke thing from Israelis but it isn’t clear.
- Criticising the actions of Israeli forces is clearly not, in itself, antisemitic. But singling them out in isolation when the allegations don’t seem proven, in the context of Labour’s ongoing problems with antisemitism, is more than a little questionable.
- Seems to me that the fundamental problem about the sacking is around tweeting an endorsement of a figure who an in interview discusses a dozen or more pro-Labour positions besides the dubious one.
- And secondly that RLB was summarily sacked without any opportunity to respond to the accusation, in the context of loads of other Labour members being accused of various other forms of racism without any action taken yet, is a bit shit.
- I don’t much care whether or not RLB is in the shadow cabinet personally, but if Starmer’s big plan is to clear out all Corbyn supporters then he’d do well to remember that internecine battles don’t make parties electable.
- I don’t buy into the idea that Starmer wins points relative to the Tories’ failure to sack Cummings and Jenrick. The media will always have different standards for the two parties. This action just means that Starmer has set a standard which allows the Tories to demand sacking every time a shadow minister farts in the wrong direction.
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dirty leeds
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby dirty leeds » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:46 am

eric olthwaite wrote:I think my summary of the RLB thing is something like:

- It’s objectively true to say that a) Israeli security forces are known to have acted like savage totalitarian bastards, and b) that they train others. It’s also true that lots of other police forces train others eg ours training Sa udis.
- It may or may not be true that the US police learned the knee choke thing from Israelis but it isn’t clear.
- Criticising the actions of Israeli forces is clearly not, in itself, antisemitic. But singling them out in isolation when the allegations don’t seem proven, in the context of Labour’s ongoing problems with antisemitism, is more than a little questionable.
- Seems to me that the fundamental problem about the sacking is around tweeting an endorsement of a figure who an in interview discusses a dozen or more pro-Labour positions besides the dubious one.
- And secondly that RLB was summarily sacked without any opportunity to respond to the accusation, in the context of loads of other Labour members being accused of various other forms of racism without any action taken yet, is a bit shit.
- I don’t much care whether or not RLB is in the shadow cabinet personally, but if Starmer’s big plan is to clear out all Corbyn supporters then he’d do well to remember that internecine battles don’t make parties electable.
- I don’t buy into the idea that Starmer wins points relative to the Tories’ failure to sack Cummings and Jenrick. The media will always have different standards for the two parties. This action just means that Starmer has set a standard which allows the Tories to demand sacking every time a shadow minister farts in the wrong direction.


As a whole the above is pretty much in line with what I think, but as for the bit in bold, whilst what you say is true re the media, imo what Starmer has done also sets a standard for the general public - to see that we now have a Labour leader who gets shit done in a professional manner and expects a high standard from his colleagues when it coms to their own judgement. Someone they can vote for.
After all, it's not lefty cunts like us that have to be persuaded to vote Labour in future, it's the other M.O.R. voters who might swing one way or t'other.

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dirty leeds
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby dirty leeds » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:48 am

And now I'm off to Whitstable for the afternoon.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:59 am

dirty leeds wrote:And now I'm off to Whitstable for the afternoon.


Remember to leave a pile of cans and plastic bottles on the beach, and to shit in someone’s front garden; it’s the done thing.

Me, I’m hoping the car park at Hope Gap won’t be too busy.
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Bobbycollins
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Bobbycollins » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:18 pm

I hope the UK will buy a real system - from Halfords https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53192842

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Ontolly
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The state of UK politics

Postby Ontolly » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:02 am




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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jackos
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby jackos » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:21 pm

Ontolly wrote:David Frost - former Chief Brexit Negotiator & close Allie to PM, has jbeen confirmed as the new National Security Adviser.


So the UK now has a NSA with zero experience in the area but is a good buddy of Cummings? Very Trumpian. I am certain is will end well :thumbl: :thumbl: :shock:

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:37 pm

jackos wrote:
Ontolly wrote:David Frost - former Chief Brexit Negotiator & close Allie to PM, has jbeen confirmed as the new National Security Adviser.


So the UK now has a NSA that has zero experience in the area but is a good buddy of Cummings? Very Trumpian. I am certain is will end well :thumbl: :thumbl: :shock:

Did we cover the efforts to remove Jury trials? No?


Maybe we should...? Dunno. Maybe I've said too much.

Edit: I hope nobody is upset by me posting that I think this would be a fucking awful, retrograde step which might set a nasty precedent to reverse.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:53 am

Related to BLM, issues of systemic racism etc, thought this was interesting and not at all surprising:

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:23 pm

My God but Kier Starmer is a cunt.

In other news,

Gods how we've fallen. From what felt like a low.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.


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