The state of UK politics

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Devi
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Devi » Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:54 pm

Drole, from a mate:

Apparently the Tories are planning to oust May and replace her with Gove. Can't say they haven't got their finger on the pulse of public opinion. Bit like sacking Mourinho and replacing him with Neil Warnock.
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Son of Leeds
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:13 pm

Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Son of Leeds » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:18 am

Kenny writes:

nobody these days can call a fcking spade a fcking spade


I'm glad to say, Kenny, I've never seen a fcking spade. It's obvious our political spheres are widely different.

Sorry, couldn't resist.
Leeds United is ruining my life.

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the flying pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: The state of UK politics

Postby the flying pig » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:29 pm

good point by ken clarke, i thought, why pretend the manifesto is sacrosanct, other stuff in it, notably the 'dementia tax', got canned instantly.

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the flying pig
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby the flying pig » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:05 pm

from the gruan:


17:00
Ed Miliband, the former Labour leader, says he welcomes the line in May’s statement saying, unless the Commons agrees, no deal will not happen. Does that mean there will only be a no-deal Brexit if MPs vote for it?

May says MPs must back her deal if they want to avoid no deal.



does anyone genuinely know what she's saying about no deal - is it a no, maybe, definitely maybe, maybe maybe, etc?? i feel i've got no idea.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:17 pm

You think she does?
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Ponte
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Ponte » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:25 pm

Well, she has decided her deal doesn’t have the support required for a vote tomorrow...but she may try again later in the week.
Fuck.
Me.
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Hmmm.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:56 pm

Two points about this petition:

1. Fundamentally, ‘Revoke and Remain’ is a more extreme position than ‘People’s Vote’, which is flexible enough as an idea to be a simple deal ratification vote if that’s what’s needed.

2. The strength of support for the petition is a direct function of the failure of May and the government to pursue moderate compromise options.

Everything that’s happening now is an inevitable outcome of May’s incompetence.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:10 pm

You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:13 pm

If only some helpful Ocker would've posted this at the time

You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby jackos » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:59 am

Extinction Rebellion

Apologies for in advance for knowing very little about this movement, just reacting to news articles about folks gluing their hands to trains and stopping tube services, but why are they targeting public transport? Don't get it. I'd understand if they blocked Felixstowe, Heathrow or the M1, but their only goal seems to be to create chaos and pissing people off.

What am I missing?

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eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:02 pm

I think it's just about causing disruption to that particular location in order to raise awareness. The nature of Canary Wharf is that there are no roads you could block which would have any impact on the site itself.

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Devi
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Devi » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:13 pm

They’re borderline SWP / anarchohippy types for whom closing London amounts perfectly to sticking it to The Man, while of course achieving little, if anything.

That they’re simultaneously pissing off almost every commuter in town and undermining the very cause they seek to represent (aren't we *supposed* to use public transport, you muppets?) is frankly par for their unwashed course.

Still. The compost bogs they’ve installed smack on Oxford Circus are amusing, I guess?
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eric olthwaite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:35 pm

Devi wrote:They’re borderline SWP / anarchohippy types for whom closing London amounts perfectly to sticking it to The Man, while of course achieving little, if anything.

That they’re simultaneously pissing off almost every commuter in town and undermining the very cause they seek to represent (aren't we *supposed* to use public transport, you muppets?) is frankly par for their unwashed course.

Still. The compost bogs they’ve installed smack on Oxford Circus are amusing, I guess?


This is absolute shite, to be fair. The SWP entirely reject ER because it's not ideologically driven, and the representation is a lot more broad than you suggest.

And, knowing that your children or their children will starve to death because of the failures of your (and my) generation, what do you suggest people should be doing? Just carry on voting?

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jackos
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby jackos » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:59 pm

Glueing themselves together outside Corbyn's house is a much better idea :cheers: :cheers: Plenty of attention by targeting a guy who like to see himself as a champion of the downtrodden. More of that instead please.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:11 pm

jackos wrote:Glueing themselves together outside Corbyn's house is a much better idea :cheers: :cheers: Plenty of attention by targeting a guy who like to see himself as a champion of the downtrodden. More of that instead please.

They left politely half an hour ago as he'd agreed to meet them next week. More of that too?
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Devi
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Devi » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:23 pm

TBF Eric, I said SWP ‘types’ - namely the type that lig along to any old demo, more to cause trouble than necessarily make a point.
I’m not saying either that there aren’t some there who do (rightly) genuinely care and want to Do Something.
I was (am) only suggesting that strategically they might want to reconsider: the (London at least) news coverage is c 70% on the disruption and only c 30% on the cause.
Of course something needs to be done, but a) targeting airports b) organising an official rally (as opposed to this week’s guerilla ones, so giving TfL time to reroute buses), c) making actual proposals / more than ‘you sort it out’, d) targeting decision makers more than the general public all might - just might - have a greater, more effective impact.
I totally agree with them that it’s a crisis, and that government needs to take action (way more than little ol’ me not using my plastic straws any more), but don’t see this action as achieving that aim.
I like it. What is it?

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:27 pm

As a point of order, in all the marches or demos I ever went on where the SWP were present, I never saw them causing any trouble even once. Bloc yes, Trots no.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:03 pm

Devi wrote:TBF Eric, I said SWP ‘types’ - namely the type that lig along to any old demo, more to cause trouble than necessarily make a point.
I’m not saying either that there aren’t some there who do (rightly) genuinely care and want to Do Something.
I was (am) only suggesting that strategically they might want to reconsider: the (London at least) news coverage is c 70% on the disruption and only c 30% on the cause.
Of course something needs to be done, but a) targeting airports b) organising an official rally (as opposed to this week’s guerilla ones, so giving TfL time to reroute buses), c) making actual proposals / more than ‘you sort it out’, d) targeting decision makers more than the general public all might - just might - have a greater, more effective impact.
I totally agree with them that it’s a crisis, and that government needs to take action (way more than little ol’ me not using my plastic straws any more), but don’t see this action as achieving that aim.


Well I disagree, obviously :basket:

I understand the intent is to 'be there' constantly to raise the profile of the issue in the minds of the public. It's said - and I don't know where the stat comes from - that you need 3.5% of any population to take action on something in order to bring about change.

a) Airports. No. Firstly they're highly secure and there's a limit to what non-violent direction action can achieve in that environment. Secondly it's not just about planes, it's about life. The focus shouldn't be that narrow.
b) Rallies? The Iraq War one and the People's Vote one achieved what, exactly?
c) They have simple demands. What more do you want?
d) How? How can mass action target individuals?

The news will always be what it will be.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:25 pm

Anyone care to guess the odds on getting the Good Friday Agreement through on the back of polite police-sanctioned rallies?
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Vampire
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:19 am

Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Vampire » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:06 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:It's said - and I don't know where the stat comes from - that you need 3.5% of any population to take action on something in order to bring about change.


It’s also said that 86% of statistics are made up on the spot.

:mrgreen:
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.


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