YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

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Quiffy
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Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Quiffy » Fri May 17, 2019 7:22 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:
Quiffy wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:There’s a lot of daft buggers getting a bit excited about the fact he bought a car today.

as twitter pointed out, he bought a car for a staff raffle at christmas. the question is would he buy a white golf? correct colour.


Someone else said the club get all their cars through a sponsorship supply deal. I said on the twatter it was a present for the barista in Costa. Nowt would surprise me.

obviously i'd love the man to stay so i want to read anything positive into this and an 'efficient' golf fits him maybe more than an alfa romeo :wink: or merc. if he's made his decision this early then i'll celebrate that more than promotion.

bielsa + championship > someone else + premiership

at least in my opinion, though i know it's a flawed equation, you've got to try and look at the positives.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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dirty leeds
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Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby dirty leeds » Fri May 17, 2019 7:39 pm

I'm watching Charlton v Doncaster. It's 1-1 at H-T. I'm seeing Bielsaball influences in both teams, especially Doncaster. Coaches are paying attention and learning stuff from Marcelo. Great to see. Especially the movement off the ball.

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jackos
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Location: Stockholm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby jackos » Fri May 17, 2019 7:55 pm

Yeboah wrote:
Phil Hay stating today that the club runs at at £20m loss per year, which includes £6m to coaching staff.



Phil is just quoting last years accounts and adding Bielsa etc I guess.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... download=0

Not my speciality at all, and there's a few threads explaining the details but operating income was up ~5M to 40M, (think I read somewhere it would be over 45M tjus season), but "staff costs" were up over 10M to ~30M. Club didn't lose 20M, loss was ~4 due to the sale of Chris Wood.

No Chris Wood this year, but income is up and Radz sold 25% of the club to the 49ers, which I suppose helped pay for Douglas, Bamford and Bielsa's crowd. We did sell Vieria but given the above and money spent bringing TA up to Bielsa spec I guess we'll lose a lot more than 4M season...

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Quiffy
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Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Quiffy » Fri May 17, 2019 7:58 pm

dirty leeds wrote:I'm watching Charlton v Doncaster. It's 1-1 at H-T. I'm seeing Bielsaball influences in both teams, especially Doncaster. Coaches are paying attention and learning stuff from Marcelo. Great to see. Especially the movement off the ball.

haven't seen a lot of malik wilks, but what i did in the u23's last year made him look like he'd grown out of that level, there was one run in particular run where opponents just seemed to bounce or be bamboozled by him. this year, the scunthorpe fan i know thought he was a 'very good' player, not the sort of thing you say about opposition players often.

fingers crossed the last bit of this match won't undermine this..
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

JimbobMaloney
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 3:18 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby JimbobMaloney » Fri May 17, 2019 8:12 pm

One of the most pleasing things for me over the couple of Derby games was that, due to the 'if there's a man down, we play on' conversation, the rolling around on the ground was pretty much eliminated.
There were a couple of times it looked like they were going to try it on, but had to get in with it because they realised the game had carried on, or just didn't make anything of a fair tackle in the first place.
It made it so much better to watch, definitely cut down on time wasting opportunities for them and I hope other teams catch on and it continues in to next season.
He may well have made all league games better for next season.

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Tycipa
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Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Tycipa » Fri May 17, 2019 8:26 pm

JimbobMaloney wrote:One of the most pleasing things for me over the couple of Derby games was that, due to the 'if there's a man down, we play on' conversation, the rolling around on the ground was pretty much eliminated.
There were a couple of times it looked like they were going to try it on, but had to get in with it because they realised the game had carried on, or just didn't make anything of a fair tackle in the first place.
It made it so much better to watch, definitely cut down on time wasting opportunities for them and I hope other teams catch on and it continues in to next season.
He may well have made all league games better for next season.

Good point that. He’s reinforced the responsibility of the ref in these matters.
The fact that we are not taking care of the planet, our children will pay the consequences. With football it will be the same because we're destroying football and in the future we'll see the negative effects. Those who have power are responsible for it.

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dirty leeds
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Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby dirty leeds » Fri May 17, 2019 9:32 pm

Donny a bit unlucky to lose on pens I thought. Ah well.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby eric olthwaite » Fri May 17, 2019 9:43 pm

dirty leeds wrote:Donny a bit unlucky to lose on pens I thought. Ah well.


Couldn’t decide whether to go Wilks or Bowyer. Charlton fans have had some proper shit to deal with lately, so fair enough.

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LSD&2Es
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Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby LSD&2Es » Fri May 17, 2019 9:53 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:Donny a bit unlucky to lose on pens I thought. Ah well.


Couldn’t decide whether to go Wilks or Bowyer. Charlton fans have had some proper shit to deal with lately, so fair enough.


I was the same, but has to be future over past.....
The Chief: "trust me, you can't have too many years with a club like Leeds."

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Quiffy
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Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Quiffy » Fri May 17, 2019 9:59 pm

interseting interview with bowyer, he's straight down the line, not as thick as his grammar suggests, didn't come out with the usual cliches and seemed genuinely pleased with his players. on the other side, before extra time his players didn't seem to be listening to him.

if charlton make it i'm sure he'd get a lovely warm reception before kick off, he deserves it (overlooking his mill hill antics)
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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Devi
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Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Devi » Sat May 18, 2019 10:01 am

Barney Ronay in teh Grauniad...

Marcelo Bielsa’s play-off agony with Leeds was a lesson in beautiful failure | Barney Ronay

Barney RonaySat 18 May 2019 08.59 BST
Leeds fell short against Derby but it was a reminder of the joys brought by football’s great nonconformist

‘Bielsa’s Leeds have been a bizarro Manchester City, utterly wedded to their system, but without the magic bullet of all that high-level talent, a way of making it work even when it fails.’
Fail again. Fail better. When Pep Guardiola was planning for his second life as a manager he went to meet various hand‑picked tactical super-brains. Among them was Marcelo Bielsa, recently resigned as manager of Argentina. Bielsa invited Pep to his home in Rosario. They had a barbecue. Then they sat and talked about football for 11 hours.

Yes, 11. It is just such a brilliantly macho interpretation of the basic idea of having a bit of a chat. Why not 12 hours? Why not 36? Why not five weeks glued to the garden loungers?

No transcript of this conversation exists but it seems fair to say it would reward being adapted into a difficult arthouse movie, perhaps with an extended dream sequence where they both spend an hour throwing away the paper plates and trying to find something to put the potato salad in, all the while arguing about counter‑press phases and whether you can use wire wool on a galvanised steel grill.

“There are 36 different forms of communicating through a pass,” Bielsa has said, which is definitely a lot of forms. This is a manager who once drew the outline of a pair of feet on his shoes to illustrate some technical point or other and then wandered around absent-mindedly wearing the same feet-shoes for the next three weeks.

The Bielsa mythology is such fun, so full of these moments, that it can at times seem a little comical. Here he comes, the nerd-god pacing his touchline, occasionally barking out a line of machine code. Which is a shame as this is to miss the real joy of Bielsa’s maniacally vivid, almost entirely trophy-free European club football career.

This week Leeds United and Derby County produced the domestic game of the season, a Championship play‑off second leg so full of nuance you needed to watch it at least three times, preferably on grainy Bielsa-style VHS in some gloom-ridden basement. It was also a game that offered up the best of Bielsa. Specifically, the things he tells us about failure. For the last 10 days the season’s endgame has been pegged out around the opposite of failure, a gullet-fed feast of winners’ comebacks and duelling superlatives; complete with a counter-narrative of sickness and debauched methods among the losers.

There is a tendency to see sport, and indeed life itself, in such polarised terms. We live in an age of Goats and frauds, temperature set by the idiocy of social media, the idiocy of Big Sport hype, the idiocy of idiots.

Spare a thought in the middle of this for failure, the most underrated of sporting commodities. Not the kind of failure that you reject, or transform later into disdainful success. But proper failure – failure of substance, a way of losing that illuminates both your opponent and the experience itself.

Marcelo Bielsa watches on during Leeds’s play-off defeat to Derby.
Marcelo Bielsa watches on during Leeds’s play-off defeat to Derby. Photograph: Matt West/BPI/Rex/Shutterstock
At Elland Road, Leeds’ season ended like this, in a falling short that remained true to Bielsa’s own obsession with a system and a way of playing. Above all it was just a brilliant game, a night of relentless running and relentless collisions, not all of them visible to the naked eye.

There was even a note of beauty in the way Leeds lost at the very end to a team they’d beaten three times out of three, and whom they finished nine points ahead of in the regular season. With 85 minutes gone, the scores level and Leeds down to 10 men, the right-back Luke Ayling charged forward, as he had all night, and lost the ball. He charged back as Derby poured into the gap behind him in a pre-drilled counter-thrust, teeing up Jack Marriott to kill the game.

In the days since, assorted English pundits have sighed over Leeds’ defensive naivety, as though this openness at the end was a moment of weakness, a failure to read the script. Whereas it was of course the opposite, a team following the plan to the final second of the season: run, chase, pass and be damned.

From this angle Bielsa’s Leeds have been a bizarro Manchester City, utterly wedded to their system but without the magic bullet of all that high-level talent, a way of making it work even when it fails. This is what a pure, flawed, human version looks like.

It has been thrilling to watch. Leeds had most shots, most possession, most tackles, the most players sent off at home. Bielsa gave 10 players under the age of 21 a senior debut. Leeds fell short but along the way produced a series of thrilling, transcendent moments that will retain their own kind of life outside the more pressing issue of points and tables.

Whisper it, but in failure Bielsa also helped to give Frank Lampard his finest moment on the touchline.

Lampard was always a punt on status and presence, perhaps even a celebrity appointment for all his obvious intelligence. He looked like something else at Elland Road, changing the game with a tactical switch just before half-time, and winning it with the way his players poured forward into the gaps Leeds’ game of sprints leaves behind.

There is a Chinese saying that defeat should be celebrated because in the process your opponent is educating you. And Lampard did learn how to play Bielsa. Filtered down through acrimony, the weirdness of “Spygate”, defeats home and away, he might just have had his own 11-hour tutorial.

Bielsa may well end up leaving Leeds now. If he does it will be a profound loss to English football, a place so reflexively hostile to intellectualism, to theory and form for form’s sake. Either way he remains football’s great nonconformist, drawing his Rothko shapes, scrolling his numbers; and embodying along the way the most unfashionable of concepts – beautiful, ennobling failure.


:salute:
I like it. What is it?

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Blackwhite
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Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Blackwhite » Sat May 18, 2019 10:57 am

Soz if posted already

An Open Letter To Marcelo Bielsa
Published by Josh Cawthorne May 16 2019
Estimado Sr. Bielsa:

On behalf of the Leeds United Supporters’ Trust, members and fans, we felt compelled to write to you to express our feelings on the overall impact you’ve had on our club.

In the short time that you and your team have been coaching Leeds United we have seen an inspirational turn around in the quality of football at Elland Road. It has been incredibly pleasing to see the unity within the club and the progress this has led to both on and off the field. Improvements to the training ground, a clear footballing ethos and a truly passionate backroom staff has gone a long way in giving this special club its identity back after years of previous mismanagement.

Whilst this season has unfortunately ended not as we’d hoped, it has been a brilliant season to be a part of. Additionally, the performances of the U18 and U23 teams has been remarkable and highlights what a bright future the club has ahead of it. We hope they are very proud of their achievements and long may it continue.

Leeds is again a city united, football has returned. Together we are loyal, we are determined, we are proud. The long history of our club is well established, but as historical, time-honoured successes fade, there is so much still to be written and we feel this has only just begun. This season alone has renewed our hope in the future and that a new chapter of our heritage is underway, we want you to remain the key part of it.

Even through difficult times and perceived injustices you have held an unparalleled level of dignity, acting always in the best interests of the club, this has not gone unnoticed among the fan base. Your passion and tireless dedication in improving the team has affirmed our trust in you and your staff.

You have our respect, our admiration and our unwavering support. We believe in your philosophy and thank you for all your efforts. Your football makes us dream again and we’re all hoping you will continue to take us on the journey in our Centenary season.

It is our hope that the board will continue to invest in the team and allow you to make the improvements you would like to give us that extra push we need for what’s going to be a very special season in 2019/2020.

Gracias Marcelo, somos nosotros contra el mundo; Marching on Together.

Muy atentamente,

Leeds United Supporters' Trust
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Mustafaster
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Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Mustafaster » Sat May 18, 2019 11:52 am

Finally just about got over the pain enough to think straight and say anything halfway coherent.

Glorious defeat in the Leeds tradition going back to the early 60s.
Nothing new there.
But I have to give heartfelt thanks to Bielsa and everyone else associated with the season.
It has been the most enjoyable season since the Revie days for me

More than Wilko's Leeds.
I have learned that the journey is more important than the destination.
I always kind of knew it, but now there's no doubt in my mind.
I feel prouder than ever to be Leeds.
Yes Derby and Villa and the rest are delighted with the result. They can laugh and take the possibility. I'll take it on the chin.
But are they as proud of their club as we are?
I honestly doubt it.
Thanks Marcelo. Thanks so much for making us something we will remember with pride, and that's more important than the fleeting pleasure of winning.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

Ballgirl
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 1:58 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Ballgirl » Sat May 18, 2019 12:03 pm

Mustafaster wrote:Finally just about got over the pain enough to think straight and say anything halfway coherent.

Glorious defeat in the Leeds tradition going back to the early 60s.
Nothing new there.
But I have to give heartfelt thanks to Bielsa and everyone else associated with the season.
It has been the most enjoyable season since the Revie days for me

More than Wilko's Leeds.
I have learned that the journey is more important than the destination.
I always kind of knew it, but now there's no doubt in my mind.
I feel prouder than ever to be Leeds.
Yes Derby and Villa and the rest are delighted with the result. They can laugh and take the possibility. I'll take it on the chin.
But are they as proud of their club as we are?
I honestly doubt it.
Thanks Marcelo. Thanks so much for making us something we will remember with pride, and that's more important than the fleeting pleasure of winning.


Thoroughly seconded. But the Wilko era was right at the start of my journey - so will always have a special place. I remember Being 3 up at Everton when we’d just come up and Southall came out and sat at his goal post during HT and then two brilliant wins at Wednesday and Villa. It does feel like we’re on a similar journey! :thumbl: :thumbl:
Prediction League Champion 2015-16

rss1969
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:52 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby rss1969 » Sat May 18, 2019 1:31 pm

Most of my mates are Villa and nearly all of my work colleagues are Derby...........anywhere I turn it is shit!

Frank Lampard is a despicable fat cunt of an individual. He has taken a club who finished 6th to finishing 6th with a squad worth millions with 3 of the best loans this division has seen. For most of the season Derby fans have been whinging about how shit the football has been. Pathetic provincial plastic flag waving shithole of a club who are only afloat because Mel Morris has fiddled the books by selling the stadium to himself.

Jody Morris is a despicable little cunt of an individual. He is only there because he is FF's mate.

John Terry is a despicable cheating big cunt of an individual. He is only at Villa because of his playing career.

I am usually quite neutral about these things but whoever loses is going to get some off me big time. I am just going to go in Villa's favour but they will fuck up next season with a shite management team.

Hopefully if Derby do stay down they will be fucked by FFP.

He who laughs last...............

Clacton white
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:19 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Clacton white » Sat May 18, 2019 1:37 pm

Ballgirl wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:Finally just about got over the pain enough to think straight and say anything halfway coherent.

Glorious defeat in the Leeds tradition going back to the early 60s.
Nothing new there.
But I have to give heartfelt thanks to Bielsa and everyone else associated with the season.
It has been the most enjoyable season since the Revie days for me

More than Wilko's Leeds.
I have learned that the journey is more important than the destination.
I always kind of knew it, but now there's no doubt in my mind.
I feel prouder than ever to be Leeds.
Yes Derby and Villa and the rest are delighted with the result. They can laugh and take the possibility. I'll take it on the chin.
But are they as proud of their club as we are?
I honestly doubt it.
Thanks Marcelo. Thanks so much for making us something we will remember with pride, and that's more important than the fleeting pleasure of winning.


Thoroughly seconded. But the Wilko era was right at the start of my journey - so will always have a special place. I remember Being 3 up at Everton when we’d just come up and Southall came out and sat at his goal post during HT and then two brilliant wins at Wednesday and Villa. It does feel like we’re on a similar journey! :thumbl: :thumbl:

I'm lucky enough to just about remember the tail end of the Revie era . The FA Cup win and Revie's second league title being when I started following football and Leeds United . Only twice since that era have I felt that something was "happening " big time at LUFC , once under Wilko for a few seasons and very briefly under O'Leary . Only now has Bielsa rekindled and kind of hope to a near return to those days , that's why I hope he stays and why I hope the board are able and willing to support him ( re Yeboah's bit about club losing money etc ) . No Bielsa I would fear a return to the dull negative/ineffective football played by many of the recent incumbents in the manager/coach position and the club generally becoming primarily a selling club to survive . Its probably a different topic of discussion but I'd hope the club realise the need to strengthen not only to keep Bielsa but also to mount a realistic promotion push . The same players won't do it again , they fell short this time and there is no advantage of surprise .Better players doing the same tactics could make all the difference , plus a player who can stop other's heads dropping as they did frequently on the run in ........... ie a Strachan type , a leader on the pitch . I know , its a lot to ask ......but I just hope . If its down to investment then maybe the club needs to look around if it isn't already .

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Musson Grumble
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Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Musson Grumble » Sat May 18, 2019 2:27 pm

rss1969 wrote:
Frank Lampard is a despicable fat cunt of an individual. He has taken a club who finished 6th to finishing 6th with a squad worth millions with 3 of the best loans this division has seen. For most of the season Derby fans have been whinging about how shit the football has been. Pathetic provincial plastic flag waving shithole of a club who are only afloat because Mel Morris has fiddled the books by selling the stadium to himself.

Wish I was that fat.

Jody Morris is a despicable little cunt of an individual. He is only there because he is FF's mate.

Fair enough.

John Terry is a despicable cheating big cunt of an individual. He is only at Villa because of his playing career.

Fair enough.

I am usually quite neutral about these things but whoever loses is going to get some off me big time. I am just going to go in Villa's favour but they will fuck up next season with a shite management team.

Fair enough.
Hopefully if Derby do stay down they will be fucked by FFP.

He who laughs last...............


Sadly he's laughing last and longest, his team just won against Leeds in the second most important game of the season, despite three previous losses on the bounce. FFP will have nothing to say, FL'sDC will walk away.
Eat more English celery.

rss1969
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:52 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby rss1969 » Sat May 18, 2019 6:33 pm

Musson Grumble wrote:
rss1969 wrote:
Frank Lampard is a despicable fat cunt of an individual. He has taken a club who finished 6th to finishing 6th with a squad worth millions with 3 of the best loans this division has seen. For most of the season Derby fans have been whinging about how shit the football has been. Pathetic provincial plastic flag waving shithole of a club who are only afloat because Mel Morris has fiddled the books by selling the stadium to himself.

Wish I was that fat.

Jody Morris is a despicable little cunt of an individual. He is only there because he is FF's mate.

Fair enough.

John Terry is a despicable cheating big cunt of an individual. He is only at Villa because of his playing career.

Fair enough.

I am usually quite neutral about these things but whoever loses is going to get some off me big time. I am just going to go in Villa's favour but they will fuck up next season with a shite management team.

Fair enough.
Hopefully if Derby do stay down they will be fucked by FFP.

He who laughs last...............


Sadly he's laughing last and longest, his team just won against Leeds in the second most important game of the season, despite three previous losses on the bounce. FFP will have nothing to say, FL'sDC will walk away.


We will just have to wait and see but for either team losing in the play off final is far worse than losing in the semi. Hopefully Derby will lose it to a horribly contentious decision.

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
Location: Arse end of nowhere

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Blackwhite » Sun May 19, 2019 10:06 am

I'd missed that this was a thing, made me laugh this morning:

You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby jackos » Sun May 19, 2019 10:42 am

Musson Grumble wrote:Sadly he's laughing last and longest, his team just won against Leeds in the second most important game of the season, despite three previous losses on the bounce. FFP will have nothing to say, FL'sDC will walk away.


That's utter tosh. The way you win says everything about you as a person and a manager. Lampard behaved like a cunt after spygate, and has shown no dignity following their win. A team has every right to celebrate after winning their place in the final, but they celebrated like they had just won the CL. They haven't. They have won fuck all yet.


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