O/T: Fuck Cancer

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Blackwhite
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O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:39 pm

As there's a vein of cancer-related stuff on other threads, thought I'd open this up so folks can post research news, personal stories, whether of friends, family, internet toilet legends :burnley: , whatever. Post'em up.

It's obvious that anyone who's watched a loved one fight cancer wishes there was a cure, and that almost everyone appreciates Macmillan, so here's a few ways you can help them out, should you feel so inclined.

Cancer charities abound, whether they fund research or care. I'll try to give some idea where the research is going, and those with experience of the care sector can advise on that.

I'll try to post some reading suggestions as we go, or answer basic questions (even if it means I have to go look it up).

One starter re: what MW and Lucas1979 were saying on the GOM thread: in the absence of a predisposing condition or genetics, lifestyle plays a huge role in your odds for cancer, huge. The line between enjoyment and odds is one we all draw every day (in wildly different places), so I'd take a little water with your fatalism: you wouldn't throw your life-s savings at a bookmaker without checking their odds and yours...

...but I doubt many of us live an ascetic existence (well, maybe tommy... :mrgreen: )
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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LSD&2Es
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Fuck Cancer

Postby LSD&2Es » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:12 pm

I thought this was a thread about Bates initially, have we totally lost the concept of O/T on here??

What are you BW, a fucking Ballboy or summink??

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Blackwhite
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Re: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:45 pm

LSD&2Es wrote:I thought this was a thread about Bates initially, have we totally lost the concept of O/T on here??

What are you BW, a fucking Ballboy or summink??

Oh fuck off :mrgreen:
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Ponte
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Ponte » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:26 pm

Just in case anyone misses Devi's link on GOM
http://bit.ly/vLBSbX
Grabs you a bit, that does.
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening or sexually-orientated material. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned.
Hmmm.

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AndyPaul
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby AndyPaul » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:21 pm

Ponte wrote:Just in case anyone misses Devi's link on GOM
http://bit.ly/vLBSbX
Grabs you a bit, that does.


Really makes a point does that.

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ChairmanMeaow
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby ChairmanMeaow » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:02 pm

My dad died of Multiple Myeloma in September 2011, he'd just turned 55. From diagnosis to the end was just under 1 year. What grabbed me most and still does (aside from the obvious) is that the medical fraternity seem to know so little about it. They seemingly just blast you with a load of drugs, give you a stem cell transplant and hope for the best.

There's a lot of cancer charities generally, but I try and give as regularly as I can for Myeloma UK http://www.myeloma.org.uk/, although I confess I know very little about the work they actually do. Know anything about them BW?

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Blackwhite
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:43 pm

ChairmanMeaow wrote:My dad died of Multiple Myeloma in September 2011, he'd just turned 55. From diagnosis to the end was just under 1 year. What grabbed me most and still does (aside from the obvious) is that the medical fraternity seem to know so little about it. They seemingly just blast you with a load of drugs, give you a stem cell transplant and hope for the best.

There's a lot of cancer charities generally, but I try and give as regularly as I can for Myeloma UK http://www.myeloma.org.uk/, although I confess I know very little about the work they actually do. Know anything about them BW?

Very sorry to hear that. I have a relative with a new diagnosis myself; it's something like the second commonest blood cancer. Waiting to see which subgroup she's in - it's a very heterogeneous disease, and people's tumours can be put categories: like most tumours, the idea is to be able to tailor therapy with the patient, so you are not just treating everyone the same. MM is kind of in that transitional place just now IMO. I accept that the treatment seems heavy-handed; chemo etc. has been described as mediaeval treatment and is non-specific (usually) - but it's been very effective for a variety of reasons, and increasing specificity of action has problems suggested below. But there are some new drugs in MM that have extended survival, and others which are brand new (I know of at least one other still to reach Phase I trial) though obviously what everyone wants is a cure.

As for the question: They're a small charity, smaller than LLR or CRUK, but they fund some good stuff. They seem to have a limited profile, not funding widely. They don't seem to contribute their funding data to this great tool, which lets you search what gets funded. Have a play.

Have a little time in on that disease, nasty, complex and painful, and very hard to work on in some interesting ways. The knowledge base on it is growing all the time, and there are new drugs in development and new options, as hinted above. A good review of things here.

And this is another concept to introduce: cancer under therapy is almost the purest demonstration of Darwin being right that I can offer.
Tumours evolve over time, accumulating more and more mutations. Some of these are good for the cell it occurs in, and offer an advantage. Some are bad, and this cell is likely to die off.
But in the presence of chemo drugs, or other more specific agents, the selective pressure has changed, and now there may be a different cell which does best. This is a hot area, and monitoring which tumour cell type a patient has may offer better management (as you might 'see' them becoming resistant to a drug, for instance). I could elaborate on this, but in MM I'll just send you to this recent commentary in Blood on a good preliminary paper dealing with this. (I say preliminary because their conclusions are quite weak, but this is the way things are going, and an area of interest to me - but the theories are the same, and probably true in almost all tumours. So not just lots of different types of cancer, but lots of subclones within each patient. To paraphrase Jack Nicholson, this cancer's quite the cunt, ain't it.)
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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ChairmanMeaow
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby ChairmanMeaow » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:01 pm

Cheers BW, sorry to hear about your relative. Hopefully they have a rather less aggressive form of Myeloma than my old man did, the consultant told us it was the most aggressive form of Myeloma he'd ever seen. I like to think that maybe he learned something from Dad's illness that might help someone else.

I think I articulated myself a bit poorly re: the treatment. What I meant was the doctors told us that Myeloma was something they were still learning about (as you say above), and consequently they tried what felt like a pretty scattergun approach with a lot of different treatments. In the 12 months he had chemo 3 times, a stem cell transplant and then some mild form of chemo at the end (which I think we all knew was palliative care, but never really faced it as such).

I'm glad to hear Myeloma Uk are decent, and thanks for the info. It feels like a long time since I was reading anything going about MM...

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Blackwhite
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:27 pm

Thanks, we're all waiting too. I haven't been up to see them since her diagnosis was confirmed, but will be seeing them later this month at a wedding. I'm dreading being asked about her prognosis, partially because it can be as aggressive as your dad's disease course, and partially because some folks go years without needing treatment: a course of "watchful waiting" is taken for those folks, while it lasts.

I guessed from your description that his tumour was of an aggressive type; I can only say they obviously thought him of good constitution and tried what they could. If we had an hour or two and a few jars I could try to lay out why; essentially some blood cancers have a common cause and thus can be treated alike, but MM has many which converge into one broad clinical entity on a wide spectrum of aggression/clinical course. The process of learning how to differentially handle this is ongoing.

MUK, as a small charity, seem to have taken the view that they can better focus their firepower by funding projects in a variety of sites with key researchers in the field; what little I know about where their money goes, it certainly supports good work here in the UK, this I know for sure.

I know other decent folks who work hard on this, and I may go back to it at some point if one or two cards come up... It's been a bit under-represented for various reasons, but this is getting better. Things will improve further, and every patient who goes before informs that which comes after.

:salute: RIP to your father.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Ponte
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Ponte » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:16 pm

What's your involvement in the field, BW?
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Hmmm.

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Blackwhite
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:21 pm

Ponte wrote:What's your involvement in the field, BW?

Been working in the lab on research projects in and around cancers (of the blood, exclusively) since getting my Ph.D. Thick end of 17 years, publications etc.
For obvious reasons :lol: I'll be a bit careful about saying much else, but can do by PM if it helps.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Ponte
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Ponte » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:39 pm

Blackwhite wrote:
Ponte wrote:What's your involvement in the field, BW?

Been working in the lab on research projects in and around cancers (of the blood, exclusively) since getting my Ph.D. Thick end of 17 years, publications etc.
For obvious reasons :lol: I'll be a bit careful about saying much else, but can do by PM if it helps.

Just intruiged, that's all. You have always come across as a clever bloke and I knew you did some kind of lab work so just wondered.
I have lost a close family member to the cunt fairly recently with another to follow unfortunately. It's a cunt and everything people do to combat it should be appreciated :salute:
Also, as mentioned before, the MacMillan nurses are amazing.
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening or sexually-orientated material. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned.
Hmmm.

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Blackwhite
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:25 pm

Sorry to hear that Ponte. Part of the reason for not carrying on the total reticence was I thought there might be occasions when it might help out; so let me know.



(This replaces a previous post where I took the piss out of you being fooled I might not be 'tarded :lol:)
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Quiffy
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Quiffy » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:04 pm

Blackwhite wrote:
Ponte wrote:What's your involvement in the field, BW?

Been working in the lab on research projects in and around cancers (of the blood, exclusively) since getting my Ph.D. Thick end of 17 years, publications etc.
For obvious reasons :lol: I'll be a bit careful about saying much else, but can do by PM if it helps.

how significant is this? or is it just a bit of local hyperbole. nonetheless it cheered me up and made me feel proud of being from york .....http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/10317103.York_cancer_experts_make_big_breakthrough/?ref=ms
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby eric olthwaite » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:07 pm

Blackwhite wrote:
Ponte wrote:What's your involvement in the field, BW?

Been working in the lab on research projects in and around cancers (of the blood, exclusively) since getting my Ph.D. Thick end of 17 years, publications etc.
For obvious reasons :lol: I'll be a bit careful about saying much else, but can do by PM if it helps.


Firstly, am I right in thinking that cancers are more prevalent than they were, say, 100 years ago? Secondly, does anyone have a theory for this?

Bob
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:55 pm

Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Bob » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:15 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:
Blackwhite wrote:
Ponte wrote:What's your involvement in the field, BW?

Been working in the lab on research projects in and around cancers (of the blood, exclusively) since getting my Ph.D. Thick end of 17 years, publications etc.
For obvious reasons :lol: I'll be a bit careful about saying much else, but can do by PM if it helps.


Firstly, am I right in thinking that cancers are more prevalent than they were, say, 100 years ago? Secondly, does anyone have a theory for this?


I suppose it's as simple as the fact that folk used to die of an assortment of other ailments before they could get cancer.

Over to BW for an answer.

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Blackwhite
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:44 pm

Quiffy wrote:how significant is this? or is it just a bit of local hyperbole. nonetheless it cheered me up and made me feel proud of being from york .....http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/10317103.York_cancer_experts_make_big_breakthrough/?ref=ms

Is it hyperbole? So many of these press releases are. Science is incremental, stepwise building on that which goes before, but sadly funding pressures mean every decent paper has to be spun for maximum effect.

Short-term thinking that exhausts the goodwill of the public, IMHO. This drives the perception that "I thought we cured that..." when we should be saying, "come on, we landed one, let's do this bitch."

Incredibly hard to tell without reading more, but above all I'd say feel proud there are local networks for funding decent work in the regions where the patients reside: there's a relatively new network of Biomedical Research Centres, across the country, to try and deliver this. Regional funding bodies such as this are important, no doubt.

To some degree the place its published is a clue to the impact: not sure it's mentioned here. Not to say it's not good work... this is not dumb stuff they refer to. How much it opens things up I don't know.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:49 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:Firstly, am I right in thinking that cancers are more prevalent than they were, say, 100 years ago? Secondly, does anyone have a theory for this?

Bob makes a good point; the other issue is detection rates are obviously being pushed up all the time.

I'm not sure if rates have gone up over this time or not; they may have, dunno. If they have, we could all advance many theories to explain it, and almost all would be a bitch to prove. Look how long it took to prove a link - PROVE a link - between smoking and cancer. (And now the companies that denied it all those years have diversified and name-changed to sell shit food to you and your kids... another demonstrable cancer risk. Nice folks.)

It took Richard Doll years. And he was fought all the way. The world's no fairer these days.


You could probably dig for the answer on this and let us all know. It won't be hard to find: try Pubmed.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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ChairmanMeaow
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:26 pm

Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby ChairmanMeaow » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:56 pm

Well, purely relating to the example of my father he was being treated for pneumonia when he was diagnosed with stage 3b myeloma (his plasma was by this point just jelly)

So I guess years ago folk died of cancerous illnesses that simply weren't diagnosed.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby eric olthwaite » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:06 am

Not wishing to offend anyone who's lost someone they love to cancer (I have too) but I think in some ways the debate gets distorted. The number of people who die from heart disease each year is, I believe, marginally higher than deaths from cancer.

But the thing is that heart disease often kills pretty much instantly. What we all can't stand about cancer is that it slowly destroys people, right in front of our eyes, over an extended period. That seems to make it particularly hard to deal with.

S'pose all I'm saying is that when people look into funding for medical research, they should focus on the likelihood of saving lives, not on how ugly diseases appear to the observer.


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