The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

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Blackwhite
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Blackwhite » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:47 am

Bielsa obviously agrees with me :mrgreen:

You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Bobbycollins
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Bobbycollins » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:56 am

welshwhite wrote:
Bobbycollins wrote:
welshwhite wrote:Tuesday's team selection is going to be interesting, considering we could have lost 3-0 today.

James as #9 again, etc.

Palace seem to play with Benteke up front, with Zaha, Gallagher and Olise swarming all over the place, which has caused up problems in the past. Despite the lone striker, I hope we start with Llorente, Cooper and Struijk as a back 3, in order to give a stronger base to the team but also to provide more of a threat from corners. I'd have Phillips marking Zaha. Forshaw is bound to start, so I'd pair him with Dallas and have Harrison and Rapha on the wings, Rodrigo at 10 and Gelhardt at 9.


Are you dropping James, asking for no particular reason.

I don't think James has removed himself sufficiently from the Scum tactic of playing eleven individuals. He doesn't look up to find a colleague when he has the ball and whilst he has speed, he doesn't appear confident about taking on defenders. I think Rapha and Harrison are currently more threatening and I don't see James as anything other than a winger. It would be nice to see James smile occasionally - I hope he doesn't feel as miserable as he looks.

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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Oheddieeddie » Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:47 am

eric olthwaite wrote:
Blackwhite wrote:Are we ignoring a shot on target saved from TyRo then? It might even be two (i was tired).


Who else got one on target all game?


No, but it was a fucking rubbish shot. When Bamford are Raph are flying, you can see them shaping up to look for opportunities to place the ball beyond the keeper.

I’d love to say I can remember a single occasion when Tyler appeared to be doing more than hit the roundy thing in the direction of the netty thing but I can’t. He seems to panic when he gets a chance.

It’s all very well saying no one else had a shot but in real terms a tame pass into the keeper’s hands has as much value as shoving the ball up the ref’s arsehole.


Be fair he had 4 shots in his 27 minute cameo, and 3 of them were on target. You obviously forget the 2 that the keeper had to save with his feet, and I’m not sure the refs arsehole capacity was sufficient for all of them

Look joking apart I don’t think he’s great either, but you say you can’t remember him doing anything but he gave us a physical presence, an example would be busting onto that ball through the middle where he raced with a defender and got a shot off from right of the goal. James hadn’t done that in 63 minutes in that role

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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Blackwhite » Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:04 pm

Precisely
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby eric olthwaite » Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:18 pm

Two separate debates going on here:

Is James absolutely ineffective in a central position? Yes.

Was Roberts successful as a replacement? No.

That Roberts was undeniably better than James amounts to less than a ha’peth of fuck all, ultimately.
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welshwhite
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby welshwhite » Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:30 pm

Two things that Bielsa bases his coaching style on is teamwork and bravery on the ball.
It's the reason that Forshaw and Roberts get the nod off him, two players that are not afraid of picking up the ball and will try to make things happen.
Always looking for the ball, never hiding.
As soon as Roberts gets the ball he ain't going to look for a simple square ball. He'll run at people and try to create a shooting chance, no doubt on Bielsa's orders.
Same with Forshaw. receives the ball in a tight space and lifts his head looking to make a creative pass.
When we got promoted Bielsa gave Phillips a big hug and said "The best", All because of the way Kalvin used bravery to improve his game, never shying away from an awkward pass while surrounded.
Pascal is another one, he's got what it takes and will soon be a star.

Bielsa is not interested if someone scores a screamer into the top corner from outside the box. He gets a hard-on from brave play leading to a tap-in.

What amazes me the most is people still don't 'get it'.

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jackos
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby jackos » Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:01 pm

Blackwhite wrote:Bielsa obviously agrees with me :mrgreen:


Would be nice to read a quote of what Marcelo actually said about Roberts, because there's no mention of James or Roberts in the quotes. Pretty odd comment if its true. James was played out of position, Roberts came on with fresh legs after Brighton had run themselves to death for 65 minutes, you'd expect him to do okay, and he was, given our expectations. It won't change anyone's opinion about the substitution.
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Blackwhite
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Blackwhite » Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:05 pm

I was stretching the comment for a joke J, his comment about second half being much better.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby metalsmurf » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:12 pm

Batty's Boots wrote:
metalsmurf wrote:
Matt White wrote:Meanwhile Forshaw and Llorente have quietly been our best players. Not saying much, I admit.

Don’t agree with that, I know it’s a low bar but Llorente was awful 1st half and only marginally better 2nd half.
Kept looking for the Hollywood pass that wasn’t on and his tracking was all over the place.


But defensively Llorente kept us in this game. Again, please tell me what Forshaw does or did in today's game?

From LUFC Data
Adam Forshaw vs. Brighton:

88% pass accuracy
55 touches
36/41 succ. passes
10 duels won
8/9 final third passes
8 ball recoveries
7 tackles won
2/2 acc. long passes
2 fouls
2 times fouled
1 chance created
1 interception
1 shot

Won the most tackles and covered the most ground.
Because a thing seems difficult for you, do not think it impossible for anyone to accomplish.

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welshwhite
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby welshwhite » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:22 pm

metalsmurf wrote:From LUFC Data
Adam Forshaw vs. Brighton:

88% pass accuracy
55 touches
36/41 succ. passes
10 duels won
8/9 final third passes
8 ball recoveries
7 tackles won
2/2 acc. long passes
2 fouls
2 times fouled
1 chance created
1 interception
1 shot

Won the most tackles and covered the most ground.


Didn't get a hat-trick though :thumbd:

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the flying pig
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby the flying pig » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:40 pm

i had a nice day out, honestly, just tried to enjoy it all for what it was and mostly succeeded.

neither loved nor hated the game itself. a bit galling to see the two big money signings play so badly. we first saw that rodrigo apparently can't play with bamford and have now seen that he apparently can't play without him either. we've been sold a skyscraper sized pup there, a ghastly, ghastly signing. james abysmal up front but i guess that's not really his thing. firpo was pretty horrible but i guess maybe these days when you sign a 24 year old for £13m you probably aren't expecting anything other than a very mediocre frontline FAPL player :scratch:.

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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Trumper » Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:41 am

the flying pig wrote:i had a nice day out, honestly, just tried to enjoy it all for what it was and mostly succeeded.

neither loved nor hated the game itself. a bit galling to see the two big money signings play so badly. we first saw that rodrigo apparently can't play with bamford and have now seen that he apparently can't play without him either. we've been sold a skyscraper sized pup there, a ghastly, ghastly signing. james abysmal up front but i guess that's not really his thing. firpo was pretty horrible but i guess maybe these days when you sign a 24 year old for £13m you probably aren't expecting anything other than a very mediocre frontline FAPL player :scratch:.

Sounded a cheerful day there fp

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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby AmarinderBedi » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:02 am

There were 2 specific things with Firpo for me:
1 - he looks slow - I know Lamptey is quick, but Firpo looked like he was standing still when they ran together.
2 - he doesn’t seem to have an appreciation of how to defend. He should have realized after 4 mins that Lamptey was far quicker than him - don’t compound that be allowing all the angles for him to get in behind you. He didn’t seem to understand the importance of positioning himself.

I actually thought he looked a little bit more competent the few times he was joining the attack. But fundamentally he is supposed to be a defender, right?

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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Mustafaster » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:48 am

AmarinderBedi wrote:There were 2 specific things with Firpo for me:
1 - he looks slow - I know Lamptey is quick, but Firpo looked like he was standing still when they ran together.
2 - he doesn’t seem to have an appreciation of how to defend. He should have realized after 4 mins that Lamptey was far quicker than him - don’t compound that be allowing all the angles for him to get in behind you. He didn’t seem to understand the importance of positioning himself.

I actually thought he looked a little bit more competent the few times he was joining the attack. But fundamentally he is supposed to be a defender, right?

Firpo had a mare, no doubt, but straight from the kick off it was obvious that Brighton were targeting him. Smart move by Potter.
Harrison should have been doubling up on him to neutralise the threat, but was AWOL most of the game.
Compare and contrast with how Brighton dealt with Rapha.
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jackos
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby jackos » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:54 am

Mustafaster wrote: Smart move by Potter.


Heresy perhaps, I know Marcelo will never be allowed to leave, but Potter has managed to convince me he could do a job for us when the worst does happen.
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jackos
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby jackos » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:56 am

the flying pig wrote: Firpo was pretty horrible but i guess maybe these days when you sign a 24 year old for £13m you probably aren't expecting anything other than a very mediocre frontline FAPL player :scratch:.


I'd be happy if he looked even remotely like a very mediocre frontline FAPL player. So far he doesn't even look like a footballer.
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jackos
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby jackos » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:58 am

AmarinderBedi wrote:There were 2 specific things with Firpo for me:
1 - he looks slow - I know Lamptey is quick, but Firpo looked like he was standing still when they ran together.
2 - he doesn’t seem to have an appreciation of how to defend. He should have realized after 4 mins that Lamptey was far quicker than him - don’t compound that be allowing all the angles for him to get in behind you. He didn’t seem to understand the importance of positioning himself.

I actually thought he looked a little bit more competent the few times he was joining the attack. But fundamentally he is supposed to be a defender, right?


Hasn't that been the case throughout his career? I think I remember reading when we signed him that he has always been weak defensively but look very strong going forward? I guess we would all swap him for Alioski in a heartbeat at this point.
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the flying pig
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby the flying pig » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:10 am

jackos wrote:
the flying pig wrote: Firpo was pretty horrible but i guess maybe these days when you sign a 24 year old for £13m you probably aren't expecting anything other than a very mediocre frontline FAPL player :scratch:.


I'd be happy if he looked even remotely like a very mediocre frontline FAPL player. So far he doesn't even look like a footballer.


well, i suppose on the two or three occasions that it came down to it, he effortlessly dealt with lamptey in the air - i know he's six foot and lamptey 5'5" but he does genuinely seem at least moderately useful with his head, the balls weren't just randomly bouncing off his noggin.

i don't think that dealing with a quick-footed, agile, guy out wide in a lot of space is playing to firpo's strengths. though i'm not sure i've properly identify what his key strengths are. his right foot looks very weak, his left foot seemingly only ok. his straight line speed looks alright without being spectacular. it'd run contrary to the scouting reports we saw on him ['...he's a wing back, blah blah...] but i wonder whether the left of a back three wouldn't play best to his strengths - but we don't always play a back three, & that looks [to me] to be pascal's natural long-term position...

already mentioned, but brighton's LB, a signing in a similar price bracket from this summer, looked tidy, a natural wing back, small but very comfortable on the ball.

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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby eric olthwaite » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:20 am

jackos wrote:
the flying pig wrote: Firpo was pretty horrible but i guess maybe these days when you sign a 24 year old for £13m you probably aren't expecting anything other than a very mediocre frontline FAPL player :scratch:.


I'd be happy if he looked even remotely like a very mediocre frontline FAPL player. So far he doesn't even look like a footballer.


Probably need to review the all-important stats, but the thing I thought he did decently enough was to put in a few pass interceptions when he wasn't getting turned inside out by Lamptey. Trouble was that his subsequent passes were all wasted.
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welshwhite
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby welshwhite » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:30 am

Now that Dallas has got his engine fixed it's time to play him as Left/Half back.
At least Palace will not be targetting that area as our soft spot.
Get Firpo in the under 23s until he starts to understand the Bielsa style of play.
Maybe time to bring Klich back too.


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