The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

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Mustafaster
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Mustafaster » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:16 am

Roberts didn't have a stinker yesterday in comparison to some of his howlers
But that's not really the point.
Bielsa invariably brings him on after 60-70 minutes... and he invariably does fuck all.
It's around 50 times now at a rough guess.

You know that thing about doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome?
I know our guitarist pretty much always plays solos out of key, but let's see how he does the next time.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Blackwhite » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:17 am

Are we ignoring a shot on target saved from TyRo then? It might even be two (i was tired).


Who else got one on target all game?
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Mustafaster » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:25 am

Blackwhite wrote:Are we ignoring a shot on target saved from TyRo then? It might even be two (i was tired).


Who else got one on target all game?

No, we're not ignoring it, but a stopped clock ... one shot on target doesn't give him a free pass on everything else.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby jackos » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:32 am

Blackwhite wrote:Are we ignoring a shot on target saved from TyRo then? It might even be two (i was tired).


Football is about expectation and excitement. I expect Tyler to try hard and fail. He's a forward. 30 EPL games for us and one goal. 100 (~45 as a sub) league games and 8 goals.

Stats might lie. In this case they didn't.
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Blackwhite » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:40 am

I appreciate what you're saying and find it odd to be defending him, but you both failed to answer the second question and in the absence of anyone to offer I'd have to say he was our most effective forward, and was only involved for a third of the game.

:baleful shrug smiley:
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby jackos » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:45 am

Blackwhite wrote:I appreciate what you're saying and find it odd to be defending him, but you both failed to answer the second question and in the absence of anyone to offer I'd have to say he was our most effective forward, and was only involved for a third of the game.

:baleful shrug smiley:


I thought the answer was obvious, and I'd answered it already. I'd have brought Gelhardt on instead of Tyler. I believe he'd have given us a chance of winning the game, and even if we hadn't Id rather he'd been given the minutes.
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby eric olthwaite » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:50 am

Blackwhite wrote:Are we ignoring a shot on target saved from TyRo then? It might even be two (i was tired).


Who else got one on target all game?


No, but it was a fucking rubbish shot. When Bamford are Raph are flying, you can see them shaping up to look for opportunities to place the ball beyond the keeper.

I’d love to say I can remember a single occasion when Tyler appeared to be doing more than hit the roundy thing in the direction of the netty thing but I can’t. He seems to panic when he gets a chance.

It’s all very well saying no one else had a shot but in real terms a tame pass into the keeper’s hands has as much value as shoving the ball up the ref’s arsehole.
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Blackwhite » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:52 am

But that wasn't the question: I'd asked who had been better as I wasn't seeing them getting the same stick. Rapha was peripheral marked out of the game. James back to his usual waste of time. Haradona more like half eaten doner. I could go on...

Not arguing that Joffy wouldn't have been as good, just asking if we're being fair to TyRo. Edit: Eric in the No camp :mrgreen:
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Ponte » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:55 am

Blackwhite wrote:But that wasn't the question: I'd asked who had been better as I wasn't seeing them getting the same stick. Rapha was peripheral marked out of the game. James back to his usual waste of time. Haradona more like half eaten doner. I could go on...

Not arguing that Joffy wouldn't have been a good, just asking if we're being fair to TyRo.

None of them did any better but that doesn’t change the fact that bringing him on isn’t going to win the game. Ever. We just brought on another player who would be a shit as the others, guaranteed.
His shot could have gone wide for all the good it did. I refuse to celebrate his improvement because he had a shot.

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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby jackos » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:58 am

Blackwhite wrote: asking if we're being fair to TyRo. Edit: Eric in the No camp :mrgreen:


He's had 100 games, and we spent the first 70 saying he needed more time, was still young, and needed a run of games. Since we were prompted he'd done nothing in 30 games to convince us that he's the answer. I think we've been fair, especially as he'll be earning more every month than most of us do in a year.

I'd say Bielsa isn't being fair on us, or Tyler, by playing him.
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Blackwhite » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:06 am

Fairy nuff.
Just asked myself, what would the posts around now be like if his shot had squeezed under that hand to nick it; would there be grudging admiration that he made something positive happen? Or would there be much the same disappointment at his introduction.

I have my answer :lol:

Edit to add: stinker he might be on average but at least he ain't Maupay. Woo boy did he stink the place out.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Mustafaster » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:07 am

Roberts is now blocking the progress of at least two younger, more promising players.
Honestly totally baffled by Bielsa's seeming addiction to bringing him on every match.
If he's never good enough to start, why is he always good enough to bring on?
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Terre Harte II » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:08 am

jackos wrote:
Blackwhite wrote: asking if we're being fair to TyRo. Edit: Eric in the No camp :mrgreen:


He's had 100 games, and we spent the first 70 saying he needed more time, was still young, and needed a run of games. Since we were prompted he'd done nothing in 30 games to convince us that he's the answer. I think we've been fair, especially as he'll be earning more every month than most of us do in a year.

I'd say Bielsa isn't being fair on us, or Tyler, by playing him.


Bingo. Bielsa has made Roberts more of a lightning rod than he might be otherwise by continually going to him in the face of overwhelming evidence than he can’t cut it. I react with the same “for fuck sake” as everyone else does when he comes on. Maybe I wouldn’t if Bielsa had a Plan B or Plan C once in a while?

I’ve said it before … Bielsa’s faith in Roberts is as big a millstone around Roberts’ neck as his performances themselves are.

That said? We had far bigger problems than Tyler Roberts at Brighton.
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jackos
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby jackos » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:21 am

Terre Harte II wrote:
I’ve said it before … Bielsa’s faith in Roberts is as big a millstone around Roberts’ neck as his performances themselves are..


Its being to reflect badly on Bielsa as well I'm afraid, he's made some very questionable decisions this season. I'm still convinced we have more than enough to stay up, and not judging anyone after Brighton away, but if we don't get three points on Tuesday I may start to panic.
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Bobbycollins » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:29 am

welshwhite wrote:Tuesday's team selection is going to be interesting, considering we could have lost 3-0 today.

James as #9 again, etc.

Palace seem to play with Benteke up front, with Zaha, Gallagher and Olise swarming all over the place, which has caused up problems in the past. Despite the lone striker, I hope we start with Llorente, Cooper and Struijk as a back 3, in order to give a stronger base to the team but also to provide more of a threat from corners. I'd have Phillips marking Zaha. Forshaw is bound to start, so I'd pair him with Dallas and have Harrison and Rapha on the wings, Rodrigo at 10 and Gelhardt at 9.

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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby eric olthwaite » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:33 am

Blackwhite wrote:But that wasn't the question: I'd asked who had been better as I wasn't seeing them getting the same stick.


Well I think I’m being entirely consistent, but hey ho. For clarity, my position is this:

1. Roberts has had enough opportunities and has still shown nothing to suggest that he will be a match-winning no9. I’m not ruling out that he might find another position at a high level but I’m certain he’s not a 9.

2. I don’t know whether Gelhardt is the real deal. He might be, he might not. But I can’t see a path to finding out which doesn’t involve first team Prem game time, and I think he’s done enough to show that he deserves the opportunity. I think he needs a run of half a dozen starts and I fully expect that he will look utterly out of his depth in a couple of them.

3. If Joffy gets as many minutes as Tyler and is still nowhere near, fair enough, time for a rethink.

4. FWIW I don’t think Bielsa has done Roberts any favours by using him as a sub rather than starting him. In his position, I don’t think I buy this ‘change the set up’ tactical bollocks. He’s either good enough or he’s not, and if he’s good enough why doesn’t he start?

E2A posted this without reading all recent posts, and I see I’m not alone on the last point.
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby welshwhite » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:40 am

I always give Roberts a free pass because I know he has limitations, he has a very long way to go if he's ever going to make it as a decent Premiership player.
Can't see it happening myself.

Same sentiment goes for Rodrigo: He's now had more than enough time to show his worth. One half-decent game in 5 is not good enough.

Does the fault lay with them for not being quite good enough and getting the minutes they are having?
Definitely not!

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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby MightyWhite » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:40 am

It was somewhat encouraging to see Roberts do more than usual after coming on yesterday, but, if we’re honest, you could parachute any striker in the Football League onto the pitch with 20 minutes to go and expect them to put themselves about a bit.
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby FredFlintstone » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:43 am

On the shots thing Dallas had a good effort from the left edge of the box but their keeper did some weird flappy armed slap at the ball as it dipped and it got cleared.
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby welshwhite » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:44 am

Bobbycollins wrote:
welshwhite wrote:Tuesday's team selection is going to be interesting, considering we could have lost 3-0 today.

James as #9 again, etc.

Palace seem to play with Benteke up front, with Zaha, Gallagher and Olise swarming all over the place, which has caused up problems in the past. Despite the lone striker, I hope we start with Llorente, Cooper and Struijk as a back 3, in order to give a stronger base to the team but also to provide more of a threat from corners. I'd have Phillips marking Zaha. Forshaw is bound to start, so I'd pair him with Dallas and have Harrison and Rapha on the wings, Rodrigo at 10 and Gelhardt at 9.


Are you dropping James, asking for no particular reason.


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