The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

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Quiffy
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Quiffy » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:52 pm

Batty's Boots wrote:
Quiffy wrote:i am slightly regretting my overt support for firpo.


Didn't Kalvin get subbed off a number of times and look at him now? Right now, I miss Alioski, but I am willing to trust to process after everything I have seen since Marcelo saved us.


the firpo sub was inevitable. the bloke had a stinking first 15 minutes, then again i'd like to see a full back who had been out for over a month play against lamptey and do a lot better. he wasn't so bad after that. quite a few others misplaced simple passes. today that wasn't the process that got him subbed, but i get where you are coming from. i don't think he gave marcelo a choice.

i still think that we missed klich, or at least another natural midfielder. it's about team shape and gaps between our players. there were so many times when we were dispersed quite randomly. even when we are not rodrigo starts moving forward to get on the end of a pass so quickly, leaving spaces for the opposition to exploit. i know klichy's not been at his best recently but he's still a grafter and offers the option of a safe pass when we have the ball or closes players down better than rodrigo when we dont have the ball. trouble is when rodrigo has the ball he tries too hard to do things with it, tries the hollywood pass and loses it so ofetn, losing control of the game. klich is more boring but at least he helps us control the game by keeping possession, and he can play the killer ball when needed, even if it isn't as often as a top midfielder.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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jackos
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby jackos » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:54 pm

On Firpo - very odd that Firpo is considered to be ready but Pascal isn't ... Suppose the science doesn't tell you everything Marcelo.

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rss1969
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby rss1969 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:55 pm

Batty's Boots wrote:rss1969, et al

Did he really? Do you have stats to back this up? I would love to see the heat map of Forshaw, compared to who he is supposed to cover off the ball. Sorry for going slightly Hecky there! Never stopped running, he is a player that looks like he works but does not do what he is supposed to do, with regards to tracking back.

Again, I am happy that he has regained full fitness, he is a passenger for THIS Leeds United team.

Nearly had an assist? We did not count assists when I was growing up! :wheels: but you have just mentioned heat maps and we never had those either. Somebody has to make the pass that leads to a goal or clear cut chance and it was our only one.

How many tackles did he win? More than most of our other players like Rodrigo, Firpo or either winger.

How many times did he lose the ball? Imo less than most of the others but I could be completely wrong.

Quiffy, just highlighting what I believe is just one of our major issues at this time.

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welshwhite
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby welshwhite » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:55 pm

Dallas played well today, getting some of his energy back, some nice forward runs.

Forshaw showing why Bielsa rates him so highly, always there for the Centre Backs to pass to.
Takes a lot of strain off them in tight positions. Mr reliable.

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Batty's Boots
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Batty's Boots » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:56 pm

Mustafaster wrote: Stole a point there. :D

Meslier quality again. :D

Llorente just about good enough. :D

Main culprit of today's horror show is, sadly, Bielsa.


The only thing Bielsa did wrong, was bringing on Roberts! You could see what he was trying to achieve initially with there formation. And with the movement they showed, it is understandable why he switched formation. To our benefit?

Again, thank you to Cooper. Forshaw, and Roberts, for all you have done for the club.
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jackos
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby jackos » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:56 pm

welshwhite wrote:Dallas played well today, getting some of his energy back, some nice forward runs.
.


He played okay, but his passing was non-league. Abysmal would be over doing it.
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Batty's Boots
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Batty's Boots » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:03 pm

Quiffy wrote:
I still think that we missed Klich. Leeds is all about team shape and gaps between our players. There were so many times when we were dispersed quite randomly, even when we were not.


This :D
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Quiffy
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Quiffy » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:05 pm

i dunno, so this is guesswork, but marcelo sees the boys in training week in week out, so knows what the players are actually capable of and that seems to be quite different from what we are seeing in matches. so dan james up top? :scratch:
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Devi
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Devi » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:08 pm

Dallas wasn’t the only poor passer today. Even Rafa put a few bad ones in.
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Batty's Boots
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Batty's Boots » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:08 pm

welshwhite wrote:Forshaw showing why Bielsa rates him so highly, always there for the Centre Backs to pass to.
Takes a lot of strain off them in tight positions. Mr reliable.


That's why the majority of possession was shared between the two teams? Right? Or did Leeds not win the possession statistics?

Cooper will pass to anyone.

And Llorente was good, but not at his best tonight. Good enough though!
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metalsmurf
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby metalsmurf » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:08 pm

Matt White wrote:Meanwhile Forshaw and Llorente have quietly been our best players. Not saying much, I admit.

Don’t agree with that, I know it’s a low bar but Llorente was awful 1st half and only marginally better 2nd half.
Kept looking for the Hollywood pass that wasn’t on and his tracking was all over the place.
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eric olthwaite
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby eric olthwaite » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:10 pm

Not going to lie, I’m a bit worried. Shit ton of short passes going astray from everyone. Don’t really get the Meslier praise. Yes, he stopped a couple of shots but his distribution was woeful first half when he completely failed to read the wind. Second half he’d clearly been ordered to throw short and things improved. Forshaw was really pretty good but only by our generally abject standards across the board. He did an awful lot of sweeping up across the width of the park when others were way off.

I don’t really agree with Musta’s Hollywood pass criticism of Raph - a few of his through balls were magnificent but other players weren’t remotely tuned in. Raph was pointing and gesturing the whole game and it seemed like half the team were not seeing it or were unable to react quickly.

I worry about Bielsa’s thinking. James up front is an absolute hard no, there’s really no way it works. Yes, Roberts was better when he came on, so if Bielsa trusts the cunt, why won’t he start him?

I said to Tommy before the game that if Gelhardt is going to become part of the first team, he has to start five games come what may. If he has a decent half against Tottenham and then gets dropped for an out of position winger against Brighton, what’s the fucking point?

Gah.
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Terre Harte II
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Terre Harte II » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:16 pm

Watched in fits and starts while at one of my own games.

Glad we got a point, but I think I might pass on a re-watch based on everything I'm reading.
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Batty's Boots
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Batty's Boots » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:18 pm

Devi wrote:Dallas wasn’t the only poor passer today.


Dallas was one of our better players today, and good for him for his recent struggles. :bounce:
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Batty's Boots
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Batty's Boots » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:20 pm

metalsmurf wrote:
Matt White wrote:Meanwhile Forshaw and Llorente have quietly been our best players. Not saying much, I admit.

Don’t agree with that, I know it’s a low bar but Llorente was awful 1st half and only marginally better 2nd half.
Kept looking for the Hollywood pass that wasn’t on and his tracking was all over the place.


But defensively Llorente kept us in this game. Again, please tell me what Forshaw does or did in today's game?
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Batty's Boots
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Batty's Boots » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:26 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:
Don’t really get the Meslier praise. :basket:

Forshaw was really pretty good but only by our generally abject standards across the board. He did an awful lot of sweeping up across the width of the park when others were way off. :basket:

I don’t really agree with Musta’s Hollywood pass criticism of Raph - a few of his through balls were magnificent but other players weren’t remotely tuned in. Raph was pointing and gesturing the whole game and it seemed like half the team were not seeing it or were unable to react quickly. :)

I worry about Bielsa’s thinking. :basket: James up front is an absolute hard no, there’s really no way it works. Yes, Roberts was better when he came on, so if Bielsa trusts the cunt, why won’t he start him? :basket:

I said to Tommy before the game that if Gelhardt is going to become part of the first team, he has to start five games come what may. If he has a decent half against Tottenham and then gets dropped for an out of position winger against Brighton, what’s the fucking point? :D

Gah.
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Bobbycollins
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Bobbycollins » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:31 pm

I think Quiffy is correct in that we are all about team shape. Last season we had two attacking/overlapping fullbacks in Ayling and Alioski and two attacking midfielders in Klich and Dallas who linked with the full backs and wingers before shooting from the edge of the box. None of that is currently available. Having James as a 9 was a complete waste and he received nothing in the way of a decent pass to run on to, largley because Forshaw is better at breaking up the play than setting attacks in motion. Struijk played about the only good pass from midfield. I think Gelhardt would have given the Brighton CBs much more to think about as he has excellent close control and is more direct than either James or Roberts.

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MightyWhite
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby MightyWhite » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:32 pm

One of the things I noticed today was just how big we made the pitch look. We always seemed to be miles away from each other in the final third, so that every pass had to travel 20 yards and by-pass at least two Brighton players.

Vintage Leeds would see Ayling, Klich, Hernandez (or latterly Raphinha) and Bamford all within 10-15 yards of each other, intertwining and playing neat triangles to spring the opposition defence. I don’t know whether the opposition are pinning us back, or whether the replacement players are simply not intelligent or confident enough to replicate it, but we absolutely need to figure out how we’re going to get that cohesion back in the opposition half if we’re going to make teams fear us like they used to.
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Phil LUFC
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Phil LUFC » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:32 pm

Batty's Boots wrote:
Mustafaster wrote: Stole a point there. :D

Meslier quality again. :D

Llorente just about good enough. :D

Main culprit of today's horror show is, sadly, Bielsa.


The only thing Bielsa did wrong, was bringing on Roberts! You could see what he was trying to achieve initially with there formation. And with the movement they showed, it is understandable why he switched formation. To our benefit?

Again, thank you to Cooper. Forshaw, and Roberts, for all you have done for the club.

You and me are so far apart here I'm not sure it's worth the effort, especially after what was without doubt a poor performance all round.

I'm no fan of Roberts but he justified his introduction today. Cooper had a couple of interesting moments but he was on today, certainly better than Llorente. Forshaw... I've looked but haven't yet found specific stats for him Vs anyone else from today, I imagine LUFCDATA will tweet something tomorrow. This was last week:

Trumper
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Re: The Marcelo's a Magician but you aren't a Wizard Potter CK

Postby Trumper » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:38 pm

For a bloke who’s usually so cautious of bringing players back from injury it’s surprising he started Firpo who really has barely played any football. Thought he threw him under the bus tbh. Clearly was worried about Lamptey’s speed against Struijk. Maybe should’ve tried James on left wing supporting Dallas at fb. James starting at #9 was horrible decision …thought Gelhardt may have been able to dribble his way past their tall cbs and cause problems today. Was KP even fit? Was Bielsa a little panicked today dare I say?


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