Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

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dirty leeds
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby dirty leeds » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:01 pm

rss1969 wrote:Re Kiko


Re the racist thing: I was under the impression that he said something like “mark the black player” which is completely different o calling him a nigger.

I may have the above wrong but that is what I thought had happened.

I want Kiko gone because he is not good enough and the players will never fully trust him between the sticks. I would rather have a youth keeper as back up, did no harm with Robinson or Carson.


No, that is wrong. He called him a 'nigger' and then said he couldn't have done that because he'd never heard the word before.
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rss1969
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby rss1969 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:28 pm

Well, I stand corrected then.

A poor show all round really.

You would expect the player to be wanting a move back to Spain. Not playing and the unsavoury incident would make most want to go.

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jackos
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby jackos » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:14 pm

dirty leeds wrote:No, that is wrong. He called him a 'nigger' and then said he couldn't have done that because he'd never heard the word before.


Didn't he claim he something along the lines of "Mark the black lad" in Spanish? I didn’t think Kiko spoke much English, so it seemed a bit far fetched to claim he said "Mark the n*g**r". Or am I mixing it up with a different case?

(I know he was found guilty of calling Leko a n*****)
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Matt White
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Matt White » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:20 pm

My tuppence worth: the racist thing is a red herring for wanting him gone: the fact is he has never been good for Leeds United. I don;'t care about his record for other clubs, or that he didn't cost much. He's just not very good any more, and his confidence, and by extension the confidence of any defence playing in front of him, is fucked.

The "poor" defensive record from Meslier of which sunshine whites speaks is surely down to defensive injuries all season. A keeper is only as good as the 4/8/10 players in front of him.

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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Chieftain626 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:20 pm

pretty sure the transcript is posted on the FA website somewhere if you wanted the full details

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Matt White
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Matt White » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:26 pm

Arnieb wrote:2) I don't think he fits into our system really. His pressing isn't effective at all. all Stats mentioned yesterday that his tackling is absymal. He either doesn't or gives away a foul. We need better. I think Rodrigo needs to play as a second striker in a 2 man forward line. We don't play that way.
...Selling him is a risk but I don't think the transfer has worked. Orta has got away with this one ... No DoF gets it a 100% right.


Do you think Orta signed him without a chat with MB beforehand? Bielsa must have seen that Rodrigo could in fact fit into our system. Think we should give him a chance, say until next January, I still think we have yet to see the best of Rodrigo.

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Bobbycollins
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Bobbycollins » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:46 pm

Chieftain626 wrote:pretty sure the transcript is posted on the FA website somewhere if you wanted the full details

"I) Our Decision
111) We concluded that the FA had proved the Charge to the required standard. We concluded
a) That the words ‘you fucking nigger’ had been spoken in the Incident
b) That those words had been spoken by KC
c) That those words had been addressed or directed to/at JL."

BARE-NAKED-LADY
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby BARE-NAKED-LADY » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:27 pm

KC was never found 100% guilty though because he denied it. It was on the grounds of probability.

Leko also never actually heard the alleged slur, another Charlton player did.

The verdict irks me to be honest and the defence Leeds went with - amateurish to say the least.
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Proud to be Leeds
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Proud to be Leeds » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:17 pm

Didn't a few of our players go their summer jollies with Leko the summer after promotion? If so, I think that gives a different slant as to the squad backing Kiko...?
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Arnieb » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:26 pm

Matt White wrote:
Arnieb wrote:2) I don't think he fits into our system really. His pressing isn't effective at all. all Stats mentioned yesterday that his tackling is absymal. He either doesn't or gives away a foul. We need better. I think Rodrigo needs to play as a second striker in a 2 man forward line. We don't play that way.
...Selling him is a risk but I don't think the transfer has worked. Orta has got away with this one ... No DoF gets it a 100% right.


Do you think Orta signed him without a chat with MB beforehand? Bielsa must have seen that Rodrigo could in fact fit into our system. Think we should give him a chance, say until next January, I still think we have yet to see the best of Rodrigo.


I don't know. I think they thought they were getting a genuinely world class player and it was a bit of "to hell with it, we will make it work." Bare in mind Athletico had agreed a fee for him 1 year earlier for £60m and the deal only fell through as they couldn't offload the player they needed to.

I think he is a good player and when given time and space (say villa away) his passing can destroy teams, it's just we haven't seen enough of it, and his pressing defensive work aren't good enough.

If he were 5 years younger I would say give it time, but at 30 I am tempted to write it off.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby eric olthwaite » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:36 am

BARE-NAKED-LADY wrote:The verdict irks me to be honest


What do you think would have been a good or appropriate verdict under the circumstances?

BARE-NAKED-LADY wrote:the defence Leeds went with - amateurish to say the least.


Oh yes.
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eric olthwaite
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby eric olthwaite » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:43 am

Matt White wrote:
Arnieb wrote:2) I don't think he fits into our system really. His pressing isn't effective at all. all Stats mentioned yesterday that his tackling is absymal. He either doesn't or gives away a foul. We need better. I think Rodrigo needs to play as a second striker in a 2 man forward line. We don't play that way.
...Selling him is a risk but I don't think the transfer has worked. Orta has got away with this one ... No DoF gets it a 100% right.


Do you think Orta signed him without a chat with MB beforehand? Bielsa must have seen that Rodrigo could in fact fit into our system.


I think there are two responses to this:
1) The business of acquiring players is based on the actual availability of players at a certain time and how much money the selling club wants; it's not like you write your perfect player spec and pull one off the production line. Maybe Rodrigo was considered less than ideal but still the best of who was out there, and MB / Orta thought, 'It's worth a punt'.
2) Much as we all love Bielsa, he's not fucking Yoda. It is, theoretically at least, possible for him to have made a mistake.
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Quiffy
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Quiffy » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:08 am

eric olthwaite wrote:
Quiffy wrote: it absolutely ridiculous that people are asking for him to be moved on.


Dude, you really are spinning language a bit here.

The real point in relation to Bamford and Harrison is that we know exactly what we’ve got. We know they’re both solid, pretty dependable and a decent standard for where we’re at. Their roles aren’t up for debate. With Tyler we don’t know what his ideal position is or how we should be setting up attacking centre mid with or without him, so obviously there’s going to be a debate.

To my understanding there’s a fairly significant difference between questioning there’s the potential to build a team including Tyler and ‘asking for him to be moved on’.

For what it’s worth, if someone offered us a serious wedge for Rodrigo I’d take it, but then I’d be hoping we used the money to find someone better than Rodrigo and Tyler.


a bit of a slow response, i get fed up of arguing after a bit. when i was saying people are asking for him to be moved on i was referring to the calls for him to be sent out on loan to a championship club.

personally i see tyler's role as being similar to (possibly) mick bates or a carl shutt. he's a good man to have around, but he's not someone i'd have in my ideal starting XI, although i wouldn't be worried about him letting the side down. I've never said we should build a team around him.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby eric olthwaite » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:20 am

Quiffy wrote:a bit of a slow response, i get fed up of arguing after a bit. when i was saying people are asking for him to be moved on i was referring to the calls for him to be sent out on loan to a championship club.

personally i see tyler's role as being similar to (possibly) mick bates or a carl shutt. he's a good man to have around, but he's not someone i'd have in my ideal starting XI, although i wouldn't be worried about him letting the side down. I've never said we should build a team around him.


Fair enough. I suppose I was thinking that from his perspective, would he prefer to be the Mick Bates / Carl Shutt or would he rather be starting every week somewhere else? I agree he could be destined to be a useful back up, if he's happy with that.
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jackos
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby jackos » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:23 pm

Quiffy wrote:a bit of a slow response, i get fed up of arguing after a bit. when i was saying people are asking for him to be moved on i was referring to the calls for him to be sent out on loan to a championship club.

personally i see tyler's role as being similar to (possibly) mick bates or a carl shutt. he's a good man to have around, but he's not someone i'd have in my ideal starting XI, although i wouldn't be worried about him letting the side down. I've never said we should build a team around him.


I was hoping he'd be loaned out in August/January, he's improved a bit and looked 'okay' against garbage like Fulham and Sheff Utd, but he is not good enough for the top half of the EPL imo. For all the reasons I and others have mentioned earlier, for starters he's too slow and his first touch is shit. We need better, and I'd rather see a few of the kids given a chance to prove themselves now we're safe than wasting more time on Tyler. I'd sell Roberts in the summer.

I wouldn't play Alioski again either now it seems certain he's off. We know Bielsa will continue to play both of them, I think he's showing them unnecessary loyalty and shouldn't.
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Mindo » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:34 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:2) Much as we all love Bielsa, he's not fucking Yoda. It is, theoretically at least, possible for him to have made a mistake.


Wash your mouth out :thumbd:

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Quiffy
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Quiffy » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:01 pm

jackos wrote:
Quiffy wrote:a bit of a slow response, i get fed up of arguing after a bit. when i was saying people are asking for him to be moved on i was referring to the calls for him to be sent out on loan to a championship club.

personally i see tyler's role as being similar to (possibly) mick bates or a carl shutt. he's a good man to have around, but he's not someone i'd have in my ideal starting XI, although i wouldn't be worried about him letting the side down. I've never said we should build a team around him.


I was hoping he'd be loaned out in August/January, he's improved a bit and looked 'okay' against garbage like Fulham and Sheff Utd, but he is not good enough for the top half of the EPL imo. For all the reasons I and others have mentioned earlier, for starters he's too slow and his first touch is shit. We need better, and I'd rather see a few of the kids given a chance to prove themselves now we're safe than wasting more time on Tyler. I'd sell Roberts in the summer.

I wouldn't play Alioski again either now it seems certain he's off. We know Bielsa will continue to play both of them, I think he's showing them unnecessary loyalty and shouldn't.

there's a decent article breaking down his midfield contribution here.
for the record his 'miscontrols' have been less than rodrigo or klich, suggesting your idea his first touch is shit is in itself....anyhow the conclusion is that he has his flaws but is a good man to have around.
https://allstatsarentwe.medium.com/has-tyler-roberts-turned-a-corner-in-midfield-70f6e3f6ccee
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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jackos
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby jackos » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:06 pm

Quiffy wrote:there's a decent article breaking down his midfield contribution here.
for the record his 'miscontrols' have been less than rodrigo or klich, suggesting your idea his first touch is shit is in itself....anyhow the conclusion is that he has his flaws but is a good man to have around.
https://allstatsarentwe.medium.com/has-tyler-roberts-turned-a-corner-in-midfield-70f6e3f6ccee


You do have a thing for a Roberts don’t you. I don’t. I think he’s a decent player, and has proved he can probably do a job for a top Championship team, but we need better. An article by the arrogant bores at All Stats Aren’t We won’t change what I think. I’m sure you know what they say about stats and lies. Tyler first touch isn’t good enough for the level we want to be at, he’s a liability, especially against the better teams because he loses the ball far too often and doesn’t think fast enough which risks leaving us wide open with our style of play. I’m sure he could do a job for WBA or Sheff Utd.
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welshwhite
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby welshwhite » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:15 pm

We've got half a dozen players in the first eleven that are not good enough for the next level.

Next level being just out of the top four. Just on a par with the likes of Everton and West Ham.
Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea & Liverpool are also outside the top four.

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Quiffy
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Quiffy » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:16 pm

jackos wrote:
Quiffy wrote:there's a decent article breaking down his midfield contribution here.
for the record his 'miscontrols' have been less than rodrigo or klich, suggesting your idea his first touch is shit is in itself....anyhow the conclusion is that he has his flaws but is a good man to have around.
https://allstatsarentwe.medium.com/has-tyler-roberts-turned-a-corner-in-midfield-70f6e3f6ccee


You do have a thing for a Roberts don’t you. I don’t. I think he’s a decent player, and has proved he can probably do a job for a top Championship team, but we need better. An article by the arrogant bores at All Stats Aren’t We won’t change what I think. I’m sure you know what they say about stats and lies. Tyler first touch isn’t good enough for the level we want to be at, he’s a liability, especially against the better teams because he loses the ball far too often and doesn’t think fast enough which risks leaving us wide open with our style of play. I’m sure he could do a job for WBA or Sheff Utd.

i disagree. they disagree. it narks me when i see a leeds player getting what i consider an unfairly hard time, so i stick up for him that's all.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.


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