Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby dirty leeds » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:33 am

sunshine whites wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:
Ponte wrote:Fuck sake, Sunshine, the reason people don’t want Kiko in the team is because he’s fucking shit.
Aren’t you sick of banging this drum?


Exactly. Shit and also a racist.


Very Lazy & bigoted
I understand but don't accept your opinion on him being shit, however the career track record at Real Madrid & Spain national team would suggest other managers, Otto & El Loco do not agree (& thats me).
Why does El Loco still have here, Pontus was out the door when deemed undisciplined far worse offense? why was Kiko made captain after the ban get an answer from El Loco not me.
Kiko was done for using a slur insult not being a racist big difference -guilty of deflecting, caution outside of this forum you could be sued for deformation & slander

The Club, manager, team, & ex black team mates backed Kiko as Not being a racist. That's witness testimony
have you ever met Kiko, spoken to him ?
how come you are judge & jury
Bigot & prejudice
Bang the PC drum but like wise fail the test to exhibit discrimination
Kiko is a Leeds player until El Loco deems not, that opinion carries more weight


You've got this the wrong way round, Sunshine: Kiko is the guy who called another player a 'nigger'. I'm the guy who has spent the last 37 years bigging up the contribution of [mostly] African-American and Afro-Caribbean people to music, and so far have felt no desire to call any of them by that name or use the colour of their skin or their ethnic origins as an insult.
So do fuck off if I have a different standard about racism than you, a guy who calls people 'Yids' and 'Fudgepackers' on a casual basis.
"Football is not so important that we can't have tolerance of incorrect evaluations."

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welshwhite
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby welshwhite » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:44 am

Crewe Alexandra are known as Child Molesters.

That's fine though :thumbl:

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MightyWhite
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby MightyWhite » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:45 am

Pretty sure the definition of ‘bigoted’ or ‘prejudiced’ doesn’t extend to disliking someone found guilty for racial abuse :lol:

He’s shite. Maybe he was seen as promising enough in his early career for his national team and a couple of big clubs to take a chance on him but thats moot at this stage, you can only judge by what you see. He cost us in the play off semi, he was a prime reason for the run of bad results prior to his ban (Wednesday, Wigan, Forest, Brentford to name a few shockers) and he’s looked wobbly whenever we’ve seen him since (Crawley being the obvious).

Verdict: Shite.
Keep Fighting

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Mustafaster
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Mustafaster » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:51 am

Rodrigo has played very few games, he's been out for pretty much the entire season.
It's just not sensible to make a judgement call on him at this point.
He has proved himself to be a top class attacking midfielder at the very highest level. His ability is not in doubt.
There may be some doubt about exactly how and where he fits into the team but it's too soon to know that.
He is very similar to Roberts in many respects, both are a kind of hybrid 8/9 and I reckon we don't need two players with such similar skillsets, they can't play together.
Let him get a full pre-season and a dozen matches under his belt and then we can start having opinions.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Mustafaster
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Mustafaster » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:52 am

MightyWhite wrote:Pretty sure the definition of ‘bigoted’ or ‘prejudiced’ doesn’t extend to disliking someone found guilty for racial abuse :lol:

He’s shite. Maybe he was seen as promising enough in his early career for his national team and a couple of big clubs to take a chance on him but thats moot at this stage, you can only judge by what you see. He cost us in the play off semi, he was a prime reason for the run of bad results prior to his ban (Wednesday, Wigan, Forest, Brentford to name a few shockers) and he’s looked wobbly whenever we’ve seen him since (Crawley being the obvious).

Verdict: Shite.

Yeah, the debate was over at Crawley.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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sunshine whites
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby sunshine whites » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:57 am

dirty leeds wrote:You've got this the wrong way round, Sunshine: Kiko is the guy who called another player a 'nigger'. I'm the guy who has spent the last 37 years bigging up the contribution of [mostly] African-American and Afro-Caribbean people to music, and so far have felt no desire to call any of them by that name or use the colour of their skin or their ethnic origins as an insult.
So do fuck off if I have a different standard about racism than you, a guy who calls people 'Yids' and 'Fudgepackers' on a casual basis.


Attending a few rock against rascism gigs does not get a bigot a pass, which where a front for the leftie Red Wedge
no comment on Bowyer Woodgate Saurez Carvani etc only Kiko eh?
do you understand the principle of crime punishment & justice ? or I guess mob bullies & trolls rule eh?
You forgot to include the Clubs El Loco & players in you your scrone who backed Kiko
there are standards when comes to discrimination, & slander you sir can also fuck off guilty

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Ponte
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Ponte » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:59 am

I’d give Rodrigo next season. He has far from a fair crack at it this season and at times has looked bob on, at other times looked miles off it.
Seems to have a good attitude, wants to be here and we know he’s got a lot of ability.

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dirty leeds
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby dirty leeds » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:18 am

sunshine whites wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:You've got this the wrong way round, Sunshine: Kiko is the guy who called another player a 'nigger'. I'm the guy who has spent the last 37 years bigging up the contribution of [mostly] African-American and Afro-Caribbean people to music, and so far have felt no desire to call any of them by that name or use the colour of their skin or their ethnic origins as an insult.
So do fuck off if I have a different standard about racism than you, a guy who calls people 'Yids' and 'Fudgepackers' on a casual basis.


Attending a few rock against rascism gigs does not get a bigot a pass, which where a front for the leftie Red Wedge
no comment on Bowyer Woodgate Saurez Carvani etc only Kiko eh?
do you understand the principle of crime punishment & justice ? or I guess mob bullies & trolls rule eh?
You forgot to include the Clubs El Loco & players in you your scrone who backed Kiko
there are standards when comes to discrimination, & slander you sir can also fuck off guilty


:lol: You have no idea, do you? Still, everyone else on here will know why you just made a massive cunt of yourself [yet again], so I'll leave you in blissful ignorance.
Re the rest of your scattershot bollocks:
Why would I comment about Bowyer, Woodgate etc? We're talking about Kiko. Do I have to comment on every other racist ever? Anyone, including former Leeds players, who spouts racist shite can fuck off, imo.
I used to be a lawyer: I understand perfectly well about crime, punishment and justice, thanks. I can't help it if other people choose to believe Kiko when he says he'd never heard of the word 'nigger' and/or that the Charlton players suddenly made it up out of the blue.
It's not slander - you actually mean libel and, of course, it's not even that, you dopey cunt.
In any case, I'm done with your bullshit. I usually ignore your drivel and it's because you've returned to racism again that I got drawn in. I'll try harder to steer clear.
"Football is not so important that we can't have tolerance of incorrect evaluations."

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby eric olthwaite » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:31 am

Arnieb wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:You started up on your rant whining about what I said. Simple question then: if Athletico - as has been rumoured - offer us £20m for a 30 year old in the summer, do you take it? Yes or no?


Great question - Eric. A plausible hypothetical.

Okay....I'd take it the offer for 3 reasons.

1) he is not getting any younger. In a year's time he will be worth fuck all. His age means he will be prone to injuries from now and he seems to take a long time to recover. We have him a 4 year deal last year which was too long really.
2) I don't think he fits into our system really. His pressing isn't effective at all. all Stats mentioned yesterday that his tackling is absymal. He either doesn't or gives away a foul. We need better. I think Rodrigo needs to play as a second striker in a 2 man forward line. We don't play that way.
3) once we sign Harrison (and we must £10m for a proven decent prem player is a snip) we may only have the budget for 2 other players and I think we may need 3. So an extra £20m will help.

Selling him is a risk but I don't think the transfer has worked. Orta has got away with this one as Raphinha has been amazing and Koch and (increasingly) Llorente have looked decent. By the way I reckon a record of 1 brilliant, 2 decent and 1 meh signing is perfectly fine. No DoF gets it a 100% right.


2) is the main reason I’d sell. I can’t think of a game this season when I’ve thought ‘thank God Rodrigo’s on the pitch’. He’s been decent on occasion but I’m not sure he’s been key that often.
Member of a clique

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welshwhite
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby welshwhite » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:46 am

A person gives up his career as a Lawyer just for his love of Moles.
It takes all sorts.

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jackos
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby jackos » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:58 am

sunshine whites wrote:Very Lazy & bigoted
I understand but don't accept your opinion on him being shit, however the career track record at Real Madrid & Spain national team would suggest other managers, Otto & El Loco do not agree (& thats me).


You do know that he only played ~40 games in ~8 years for Real? Only time he got a decent run in the first team was at Espanol. Not sure I think he's lazy or even a racist, but I do think he's shit, and has been for most of his time with us. He's been happy to sit on the bench or in the stands for most of his career and will stick it out at Leeds until we pay him off.
Traditional Socialist Bastard

Son of Leeds
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Son of Leeds » Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:09 am

The hunch of Son of Leeds says, Rodrigo (if he stays) will be a key player next season.

Don't despise the hunch of Son of Leeds. It's not an infallible instrument, but was right about Bamford when there was a universal clamour for a replacement last summer: it was right about our mid-table position when Doubts about survival were raised after Crystal Palace away; it was right about a good performance against Leicester when no-one gave us a hope - though I don't think it commented on the board at the time.

Roderigo struggles with the man-marking system so when he plays we tend to have a soft-centre. He's like Pablo, who will try the ambitious pass that often gifts possession when the players are running forward. Combined with his man-marking weakness this can make him a big risk. However, if he's willing to do the work in the summer that weakness can be overcome. His ability to switch play from the centre, a tactic that Harrison relies on to be fully effective, is something we need. I see him next season spraying passes to Harrison and Raphers who pounce on the opportunity like a seagull of a dropped bag of chips.

This all depends on Raphers staying and Rodders putting in the pre-season shifts.

On the racism thing: Sunshine has it wrong, and I detect more emotion that calm reason in his posts on this. Like some in the Black Lives Matter movement I have doubts about the term's utility. It generalises out the historical contexts and blurs different kinds and degrees of racism. However, English football has an anti-racism movement which has responded to the Black Lives Matter movement by taking the knee. It defines acceptable behaviour specifically, and using a common racial slur is one of the things it punishes. To use that term, knowing its weight within the game, is not casual. It's a defiance of the norms the game has set. You can't bleat that 'the guy isn't racist' when he has used a racist term as defined by his conditions of employment. You might argue the term should not be as definitive of racism as it is - good luck with that - but that's how things stand. Casilla was found guilty after an investigation. Kinnear's moan that it wasn't 'beyond reasonable doubt' as the law defines it missed the point. (It wasn't his finest hour). The burden of proof is also established within the game: no-one suggested it was a criminal offence.

Racism is corrosive and works on repeated low-level insults; pinches often repeated. The first black player to play at Wembley was Leeds United's Albert Johansson. There was no racial abuse of him from the terraces. He was a childhood hero of mine. What we didn't know at the time was that he found it difficult to overcome his upbringing that told him to stand aside when a white man approached. To deal with this he drank before each game. He died, fat, poor and alcoholic in a council flat in Leeds. The body was undiscovered for three days. Conclusion?
Leeds United is ruining my life.

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dirty leeds
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby dirty leeds » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:00 am

welshwhite wrote:A person gives up his career as a Lawyer just for his love of Moles.
It takes all sorts.


:thumbl:
"Football is not so important that we can't have tolerance of incorrect evaluations."

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sunshine whites
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby sunshine whites » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:13 pm

jackos wrote:
sunshine whites wrote:Very Lazy & bigoted
I understand but don't accept your opinion on him being shit, however the career track record at Real Madrid & Spain national team would suggest other managers, Otto & El Loco do not agree (& thats me).


You do know that he only played ~40 games in ~8 years for Real? Only time he got a decent run in the first team was at Espanol. Not sure I think he's lazy or even a racist, but I do think he's shit, and has been for most of his time with us. He's been happy to sit on the bench or in the stands for most of his career and will stick it out at Leeds until we pay him off.


the post was lazy & bigoted not the keeper
Not a bad run for shit player Espanyol, Madrid titles Champions League Spain call up, Leeds, promotion, captain. Obviously other coaches & managers including El Loco dont share the opinions on here- Its a witch hunt

Why has the club, El Loco & team mates stood behind Kiko? El Loco was very public on this
He served his punishment time for the lunch mob & bullys to move on, &get behind the team.
There are other offenders, Woody & Bowyer come back to ER as managers & respected ex players yet there will be prejudice section of people who will boo & heckle Casila to hound him out
People make mistakes and that was a bad one, but he has punishment.

Very sad post on Johansson, never knew that -tragic

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welshwhite
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby welshwhite » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:26 pm

We're safe in the league, maybe now could be a good time for Kiko to get a run in the first eleven.

1- It will give Marcelo the chance to see if he's worth keeping on as back-up to Meslier.

2- If he performs to the standard that brought him to the club in the first place clubs will take him off our hands saving us his huge wages (if it's our aim to move him on).

3- It will take Meslier out of the shop window from the snooping clubs.

Seems like a win-win situation?

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Phil LUFC
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Phil LUFC » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:28 pm

sunshine whites wrote:Not a bad run for shit player Espanyol, Madrid titles Champions League Spain call up, Leeds, promotion, captain. Obviously other coaches & managers including El Loco dont share the opinions on here- Its a witch hunt.


Why do you feel the need to defend him so strongly?

As a player he's been average at best whilst picking up big wages. He's made countless mistakes costing goals, points and a promotion. Ultimately he was no better than BPF in his first season, started the 2nd season reasonably well but went to shit for a good chuck on it and statistically worse than Meslier all in. I don't give a flying fuck what he did/didn't do in Spain, I only care what he does for LUFC, which has been nowhere near enough for £50k a week.

As a person he's been found guilty of a racist slur, I'm not going to debate the intent but the report was pretty damning (not just on him, on others at the club who tried to back him). He's served his ban, fine, but I wanted him sold before this incident so for me it's largely irrelevant. We'll see how it goes if/when someone good does something as bad - Saiz spitting got a mixed response, ultimately I'm glad he's gone, but that soured by the end anyway.

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The Tin Man
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby The Tin Man » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:38 pm

welshwhite wrote:We're safe in the league, maybe now could be a good time for Kiko to get a run in the first eleven.

1- It will give Marcelo the chance to see if he's worth keeping on as back-up to Meslier.

2- If he perfoms to the standard that brought him to the club in the first place clubs will take him off our hands saving us his huge wages (if it's our aim to move him on).

3- It will take Meslier out of the shop window from the snooping clubs.

Seems like a win-win situation?


:cheers: :salute: Didn't really get your sense of humour until now. That really is a cracker.
For every step,the footprint was already there.

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sunshine whites
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby sunshine whites » Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:29 pm

Phil LUFC wrote:
sunshine whites wrote:Not a bad run for shit player Espanyol, Madrid titles Champions League Spain call up, Leeds, promotion, captain. Obviously other coaches & managers including El Loco dont share the opinions on here- Its a witch hunt.


Why do you feel the need to defend him so strongly?

As a player he's been average at best whilst picking up big wages. He's made countless mistakes costing goals, points and a promotion. Ultimately he was no better than BPF in his first season, started the 2nd season reasonably well but went to shit for a good chuck on it and statistically worse than Meslier all in. I don't give a flying fuck what he did/didn't do in Spain, I only care what he does for LUFC, which has been nowhere near enough for £50k a week.

As a person he's been found guilty of a racist slur, I'm not going to debate the intent but the report was pretty damning (not just on him, on others at the club who tried to back him). He's served his ban, fine, but I wanted him sold before this incident so for me it's largely irrelevant. We'll see how it goes if/when someone good does something as bad - Saiz spitting got a mixed response, ultimately I'm glad he's gone, but that soured by the end anyway.


Appreciate the post thank you-

He did the crime, served the time.
El Loco has stuck by him, I'm assuming thats not just because we cannot shift him, he had no hesitation cutting Pontus & Saiz,
Imho no politics or religion in sports. The PC brigade is out of hand, & nasty trolling anyone with an opinion.
Kiko's wages were nuts when in the Championship, but no fee, so he's cost 2.6M PA , at the time he came in he was an international player from Europe's elite- over 4 years 10M in fee & wages would not be unreasonable Premiership keeper. Top Championship players can pull in 25k week, so his premium is 1.3M year, +/-5M over four years.
Whats the alternative-Chelsea paid 80M Euro for Kepa -even at the bottom clubs Blunts 18.5M for Ramsdale Johnson cost Saggies 7M, at Fulham Areola is valued at 13.5M All plus wages.
As obscene as it 50k week are Premiership wages, Kiko played his part in getting promotion, if not banned could well have continued & started this season.
Meslier has been an incredible find but it was a hell of a risk and after letting BPF go. I do rate him highly but was uncomfortable with risk, not him soley, but with our style of play & our appalling defending, (which will improve as injured players return). Our defensive record has been relegation form, all including the Messiah, needed to improve.
Kiko is not moving anywhere whilst sitting on the bench.
The lufc team spirit has been unbelievable,Kiko's charge would have been a shocking vile & disruptive event to deal with but the team has stayed strong & United- I hate the boo boys continuing to try to blow this up, witch hunt Kiko out the club out of prejudice
Always support the team & the players wearing the shirt, & trust El Loco.
Time to move on.

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Phil LUFC
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Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Phil LUFC » Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:13 pm

sunshine whites wrote:
Phil LUFC wrote:
sunshine whites wrote:Not a bad run for shit player Espanyol, Madrid titles Champions League Spain call up, Leeds, promotion, captain. Obviously other coaches & managers including El Loco dont share the opinions on here- Its a witch hunt.


Why do you feel the need to defend him so strongly?

As a player he's been average at best whilst picking up big wages. He's made countless mistakes costing goals, points and a promotion. Ultimately he was no better than BPF in his first season, started the 2nd season reasonably well but went to shit for a good chuck on it and statistically worse than Meslier all in. I don't give a flying fuck what he did/didn't do in Spain, I only care what he does for LUFC, which has been nowhere near enough for £50k a week.

As a person he's been found guilty of a racist slur, I'm not going to debate the intent but the report was pretty damning (not just on him, on others at the club who tried to back him). He's served his ban, fine, but I wanted him sold before this incident so for me it's largely irrelevant. We'll see how it goes if/when someone good does something as bad - Saiz spitting got a mixed response, ultimately I'm glad he's gone, but that soured by the end anyway.


Appreciate the post thank you-

He did the crime, served the time.
El Loco has stuck by him, I'm assuming thats not just because we cannot shift him, he had no hesitation cutting Pontus & Saiz,
Imho no politics or religion in sports. The PC brigade is out of hand, & nasty trolling anyone with an opinion.
Kiko's wages were nuts when in the Championship, but no fee, so he's cost 2.6M PA , at the time he came in he was an international player from Europe's elite- over 4 years 10M in fee & wages would not be unreasonable Premiership keeper. Top Championship players can pull in 25k week, so his premium is 1.3M year, +/-5M over four years.
Whats the alternative-Chelsea paid 80M Euro for Kepa -even at the bottom clubs Blunts 18.5M for Ramsdale Johnson cost Saggies 7M, at Fulham Areola is valued at 13.5M All plus wages.
As obscene as it 50k week are Premiership wages, Kiko played his part in getting promotion, if not banned could well have continued & started this season.
Meslier has been an incredible find but it was a hell of a risk and after letting BPF go. I do rate him highly but was uncomfortable with risk, not him soley, but with our style of play & our appalling defending, (which will improve as injured players return). Our defensive record has been relegation form, all including the Messiah, needed to improve.
Kiko is not moving anywhere whilst sitting on the bench.
The lufc team spirit has been unbelievable,Kiko's charge would have been a shocking vile & disruptive event to deal with but the team has stayed strong & United- I hate the boo boys continuing to try to blow this up, witch hunt Kiko out the club out of prejudice
Always support the team & the players wearing the shirt, & trust El Loco.
Time to move on.

Fair enough on the cost.

We will never know of course but I think if we'd played this season exactly as we have done but with Kiko in ahead of Meslier then we'd have been in deep shit. We'd have lost away to Sheff Utd for a start, we'd have lost home to Arsenal with the late chance too and then a number of defeats would have been heavier. It's not as if we'd have been any more secure on corners (just a different brand of shit at times).

rss1969
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:52 pm

Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby rss1969 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:43 pm

Re Kiko

Awful keeper. Might be the n the wrong country but his gaffs towards the end of his first season and especially the home play-off game were defining in our failure to get promoted.

Following season he had hardly anything to do due to the sheer amount of possession we had but he still cost us points. Meslier has also cost us points, but all keepers make mistakes. The difference is that Kiko is an experienced former international on 50k a week who is poor with the ball at his feet and has a shit presence in his box. Meslier is a great prospect and has got better the more he has played. If Blunts keeper was worth 17m then Meslier was an absolute bargain at 5m.

Re the racist thing: I was under the impression that he said something like “mark the black player” which is completely different o calling him a nigger.

I may have the above wrong but that is what I thought had happened.

I want Kiko gone because he is not good enough and the players will never fully trust him between the sticks. I would rather have a youth keeper as back up, did no harm with Robinson or Carson.


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