Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

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Ponte
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:36 am
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Ponte » Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:00 pm

Quiffy wrote:
sunshine whites wrote:
I have consistently highlighted our defensive performance is not good enough -

which is 90% down to;
1. the way we play, taking risks by ploughing forward to create overloads which leaves space in behind.
2. the amount of injuries we've had at the back, there's probably been at least 10 different combinations of our defensive lines.

with our best players making less mistakes, as they will with more time in the prem, we won't keep conceding in the same way. just having pascal at the back made us a lot better at set pieces. stop stressing about this.

i'd personally wham all our budget on getting a top quality attacking midfielder. then we've got dallas, davies and huggins to cover the left back position.

I’d still like a specialist LB. We are good at CB and Ayling can hold RB hopefully with Drameh coming through to usurp him.

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Quiffy » Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:22 pm

Ponte wrote:
Quiffy wrote:
sunshine whites wrote:
I have consistently highlighted our defensive performance is not good enough -

which is 90% down to;
1. the way we play, taking risks by ploughing forward to create overloads which leaves space in behind.
2. the amount of injuries we've had at the back, there's probably been at least 10 different combinations of our defensive lines.

with our best players making less mistakes, as they will with more time in the prem, we won't keep conceding in the same way. just having pascal at the back made us a lot better at set pieces. stop stressing about this.

i'd personally wham all our budget on getting a top quality attacking midfielder. then we've got dallas, davies and huggins to cover the left back position.

I’d still like a specialist LB. We are good at CB and Ayling can hold RB hopefully with Drameh coming through to usurp him.

i wouldn't object, but it's not a priority imo. i reckon a top quality number 10, or even 8 would make a much more significant improvement to our fortunes.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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Ponte
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Ponte » Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:35 pm

I’d like to think the plan is to do both

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Phil LUFC
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Phil LUFC » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:05 pm

Ponte wrote:I’d like to think the plan is to do both

Yeah, this. Both positions are top of my wish list certainly. I might think differently if Davis got the last 5 games to stake a claim (or anyone else but I assume he's most likely at this point).

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby eric olthwaite » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:29 pm

sunshine whites wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:
Funny how you want to quote what Bielsa says about Rodrigo to support your argument when for so long you told us that Meslier wasn't good enough to be our keeper despite the fact that Bielsa thought he was.
So when MB supports what you think it's worth mentioning it; when he says the opposite it's not.
OK then.


er so you agree, no comment or objection on Biesla or Rodrigo


You started up on your rant whining about what I said. Simple question then: if Athletico - as has been rumoured - offer us £20m for a 30 year old in the summer, do you take it? Yes or no?
Member of a clique

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welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby welshwhite » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:09 pm

Take that Fox costume off, Sunshine, the pack of Hounds are loose again.
I disagree with a lot of peoples views on here, doesn't give me the urge to continually go chasing after them though.

Anyway, It's hard to know what type of midfielder we should be looking for.
A player that can hold onto the ball that can dictate the pace of play would not fit our quick passing game.

We need a mixture of both, would that be why we bought Rodrigo. I just can't work out why he's our record signing. I don't think he was bought as a lone Striker? I somehow think Bielsa rates him better than some of us - fuck knows?

Eddies Boots
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Eddies Boots » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:09 pm

welshwhite wrote:We need a mixture of both, would that be why we bought Rodrigo. I just can't work out why he's our record signing. I don't think he was bought as a lone Striker? I somehow think Bielsa rates him better than some of us - fuck knows?


It is my first assumption that Bielsa knows better than me about everything football and specifically his squad.
Bielsa does not seem to buy a player for just one position.

We have seen where he tries to use Rodrigo. In the summer he will either agree to get rid, or keep and prepare him for next season.

Similarly, the probability of him getting a specialist LB seems low.
Maybe someone who is primarily a LB/LDM? Is there someone like that we would want?

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welshwhite
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby welshwhite » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:55 pm

Eddies Boots wrote:
welshwhite wrote:We need a mixture of both, would that be why we bought Rodrigo. I just can't work out why he's our record signing. I don't think he was bought as a lone Striker? I somehow think Bielsa rates him better than some of us - fuck knows?


It is my first assumption that Bielsa knows better than me about everything football and specifically his squad.
Bielsa does not seem to buy a player for just one position.

We have seen where he tries to use Rodrigo. In the summer he will either agree to get rid, or keep and prepare him for next season.

Similarly, the probability of him getting a specialist LB seems low.
Maybe someone who is primarily a LB/LDM? Is there someone like that we would want?


Personally I think we'll buy big again in the summer. The one thing I'm waiting for is Bielsa signing for another season.
That will tell me the club have the ambition we've lacked for a long time.

As for what type of players we'll sign, that remains a mystery that only one man knows - he's a one-off.

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Proud to be Leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:51 pm

Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Proud to be Leeds » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:08 pm

I wonder if Dwight McNeil could be the solution as the new 8/10...
Leeds United - I love you more than I want to.

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welshwhite
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby welshwhite » Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:26 pm

Proud to be Leeds wrote:I wonder if Dwight McNeil could be the solution as the new 8/10...


I've just got to thinking maybe the player is already here at the club.
Could it be that our crazy coach is planning on bringing on Roberts to improve as much as, Ayling, Pasco, Phillips, Cooper, Dallas, Bamford, Klitch...

Maybe the reason Roberts dumbfounds us all by being in the starting eleven every week is because he's Bielsa's next 'project'.
It's things like this that will keep Bielsa here a while longer.

Nothing surprises me with El Loco.

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sunshine whites
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby sunshine whites » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:13 am

Ponte wrote:Fuck sake, Sunshine, the reason people don’t want Kiko in the team is because he’s fucking shit.
Aren’t you sick of banging this drum?


sorry think you missed this
"For this season I thought there was better experience & talent out there, not necessarily Kiko,"

again Kiko was the keeper who contributed the most during the season we were promoted FACT

Now we appear safe he should play & be in the shop window to try get a transfer & relieve the massive drain in the payroll

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Matt White
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Matt White » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:16 am

Just catching up.

Phil LUFC wrote:Caveated by appropriate recruitment, what happens in the next 8 games and how preseason goes, yes.

:puker:

:)

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Ponte
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:36 am
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Ponte » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:22 am

sunshine whites wrote:
Ponte wrote:Fuck sake, Sunshine, the reason people don’t want Kiko in the team is because he’s fucking shit.
Aren’t you sick of banging this drum?


sorry think you missed this
"For this season I thought there was better experience & talent out there, not necessarily Kiko,"

again Kiko was the keeper who contributed the most during the season we were promoted FACT

Now we appear safe he should play & be in the shop window to try get a transfer & relieve the massive drain in the payroll

Are you ignoring this part of your own post to prove some point?
Kiko is good enough to play but has been targeted due to bigotry & prejudice - yeah its all fine if its, PC black life's, racism & respect etc but prejudice has no boundaries either, imho persecuting guy who has served his time by the rules is not on, & especially for Leeds shirt imho, your welcome to yours but no one will bully theirs down my throat. Kiko was the keeper who contributed most in the season to get us promoted.

You seem to think that some fans don’t want him in the team because of the racism ban. That was bad enough but the fact he is fucking shit at being a goalkeeper is enough on its own to not want him in the team.

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sunshine whites
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby sunshine whites » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:47 am

eric olthwaite wrote:You started up on your rant whining about what I said. Simple question then: if Athletico - as has been rumoured - offer us £20m for a 30 year old in the summer, do you take it? Yes or no?


That is actually a very good question
at the moment probably not, clubs spunk 10-15 M on champsionship prospects who do not make & wont get 10 goals a season in the Premiership e.g. McBurnie Vidra Jordan Rhodes, Wells MC44 Gayle etc so what you getting for 20M?
Its totally down to Rorigo's mindset, age is not an issue, CR7, Ibramhiovic, Carvani Buffon Modric Fernandino, etc ability can prolong careers & players can contibute
El Loco knows him inside out & backs Rodrigo.
Rodders made a passionate statement that he wants to stay
He can only get fitter & better
Llorente & Kock are prime examples where we have brought in quality players unlucky with injury
As we saw with JK Augustin there is a lot risk in the transfer market.
However who knows what Otto may have up is sleeve, deserves credit for finding nuggets such as Bamford, Alioski, Kiko Harrison Pontus, Klitch, Raphinha,Kock Llorente, Geldardt
In El Loco I trust he likes what he sees in Rodrigo & unusual said he justified the transfer fee, which i don't recall he has said about any other player

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Phil LUFC
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Phil LUFC » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:35 am

sunshine whites wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:You started up on your rant whining about what I said. Simple question then: if Athletico - as has been rumoured - offer us £20m for a 30 year old in the summer, do you take it? Yes or no?


That is actually a very good question
at the moment probably not, clubs spunk 10-15 M on champsionship prospects who do not make & wont get 10 goals a season in the Premiership e.g. McBurnie Vidra Jordan Rhodes, Wells MC44 Gayle etc so what you getting for 20M?
Its totally down to Rorigo's mindset, age is not an issue, CR7, Ibramhiovic, Carvani Buffon Modric Fernandino, etc ability can prolong careers & players can contibute
El Loco knows him inside out & backs Rodrigo.
Rodders made a passionate statement that he wants to stay
He can only get fitter & better
Llorente & Kock are prime examples where we have brought in quality players unlucky with injury
As we saw with JK Augustin there is a lot risk in the transfer market.
However who knows what Otto may have up is sleeve, deserves credit for finding nuggets such as Bamford, Alioski, Kiko Harrison Pontus, Klitch, Raphinha,Kock Llorente, Geldardt
In El Loco I trust he likes what he sees in Rodrigo & unusual said he justified the transfer fee, which i don't recall he has said about any other player

Yep, agree with sunshine here, not ready to lose £10m on a player with a lot more to give. If rather see how his 2nd season goes then decide, even if he's only worth £10-15m at 31.

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Phil LUFC
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Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Phil LUFC » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:49 am

sunshine whites wrote:
Ponte wrote:Fuck sake, Sunshine, the reason people don’t want Kiko in the team is because he’s fucking shit.
Aren’t you sick of banging this drum?


sorry think you missed this
"For this season I thought there was better experience & talent out there, not necessarily Kiko,"

again Kiko was the keeper who contributed the most during the season we were promoted FACT

Now we appear safe he should play & be in the shop window to try get a transfer & relieve the massive drain in the payroll

On your fact here...

Kiko kept 15 clean sheets in 36 games, conceding 0.72 per game.
Meslier kept 7 clean sheets in 10 games, conceding 0.4 per game.

Meslier has better distribution too.

I'm going to dispute he played a big part given he played most of the games but I am going to dispute any suggestion he earnt us more points then he cost. Racist incident aside he cost us that game at Charlton and he cost us a trip to Wembley the season before.

Relative to what he earns he's right up there with Rachubka in my view, putting him in the shop window will cost us league places and definitely not encourage anyone to buy him. Lets not do that thanks.

As for alternatives, the distribution is key so not as easy as getting a solid keeper - just look at Pope for England recently. Martinez was the one but at what price if we'd got into a bidding war with villa? Given where we are it's very clear Meslier's inexperience hasn't been a problem, he's had maybe 2 dodgy games? And has a problem to overcome on corners (along with his entire defence).

Arnieb
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Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby Arnieb » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:56 am

eric olthwaite wrote:You started up on your rant whining about what I said. Simple question then: if Athletico - as has been rumoured - offer us £20m for a 30 year old in the summer, do you take it? Yes or no?


Great question - Eric. A plausible hypothetical.

Okay....I'd take it the offer for 3 reasons.

1) he is not getting any younger. In a year's time he will be worth fuck all. His age means he will be prone to injuries from now and he seems to take a long time to recover. We have him a 4 year deal last year which was too long really.
2) I don't think he fits into our system really. His pressing isn't effective at all. all Stats mentioned yesterday that his tackling is absymal. He either doesn't or gives away a foul. We need better. I think Rodrigo needs to play as a second striker in a 2 man forward line. We don't play that way.
3) once we sign Harrison (and we must £10m for a proven decent prem player is a snip) we may only have the budget for 2 other players and I think we may need 3. So an extra £20m will help.

Selling him is a risk but I don't think the transfer has worked. Orta has got away with this one as Raphinha has been amazing and Koch and (increasingly) Llorente have looked decent. By the way I reckon a record of 1 brilliant, 2 decent and 1 meh signing is perfectly fine. No DoF gets it a 100% right.

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby jackos » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:23 am

I'd definitely seĺl Rodrigo if we could get >20M for him. I assume he's one of, if not the, top earner at the club, on excess of 80K a week. I think we could find a much better fit and better competition for Bamford for that sort of money. Definitely not a bad transfer because I doubt we'd have got Llorente or Rafa without Rodrigo, and I am happy for him to stay, I just think we need a different style of player if Bielsa stays.

Still, if it was a toss up between selling Rodrigo for 20m or Costa for 10m I sell Costa.
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sunshine whites
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby sunshine whites » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:28 am

dirty leeds wrote:
Ponte wrote:Fuck sake, Sunshine, the reason people don’t want Kiko in the team is because he’s fucking shit.
Aren’t you sick of banging this drum?


Exactly. Shit and also a racist.


Very Lazy & bigoted
I understand but don't accept your opinion on him being shit, however the career track record at Real Madrid & Spain national team would suggest other managers, Otto & El Loco do not agree (& thats me).
Why does El Loco still have here, Pontus was out the door when deemed undisciplined far worse offense? why was Kiko made captain after the ban get an answer from El Loco not me.
Kiko was done for using a slur insult not being a racist big difference -guilty of deflecting, caution outside of this forum you could be sued for deformation & slander

The Club, manager, team, & ex black team mates backed Kiko as Not being a racist. That's witness testimony
have you ever met Kiko, spoken to him ?
how come you are judge & jury
Bigot & prejudice
Bang the PC drum but like wise fail the test to exhibit discrimination
Kiko is a Leeds player until El Loco deems not, that opinion carries more weight

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welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: Let’s get to the heckingbottom of this v Leeds CK

Postby welshwhite » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:33 am

Arnieb wrote:
Great question - Eric. A plausible hypothetical.

Okay....I'd take it the offer for 3 reasons.

1) he is not getting any younger. In a year's time he will be worth fuck all. His age means he will be prone to injuries from now and he seems to take a long time to recover. We have him a 4 year deal last year which was too long really.
2) I don't think he fits into our system really. His pressing isn't effective at all. all Stats mentioned yesterday that his tackling is absymal. He either doesn't or gives away a foul. We need better. I think Rodrigo needs to play as a second striker in a 2 man forward line. We don't play that way.
3) once we sign Harrison (and we must £10m for a proven decent prem player is a snip) we may only have the budget for 2 other players and I think we may need 3. So an extra £20m will help.

Selling him is a risk but I don't think the transfer has worked. Orta has got away with this one as Raphinha has been amazing and Koch and (increasingly) Llorente have looked decent. By the way I reckon a record of 1 brilliant, 2 decent and 1 meh signing is perfectly fine. No DoF gets it a 100% right.


Exellent view of Rodrigo :thumbl:

I also don't think he's got the heart for our Premiership, looks to me like the oppo target him. They stick a quick tackle into him as soon as he recieves the ball and he's easily dispossessed.
He and Bamford doesn't seem to work together either.

If he had been on the end of the tackle that clattered Roberts he'd still be rolling around now.

I agree, cut our losses and sell him before his value becomes even less.


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