Planning for next season

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SmithyHK
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:22 pm
Location: Asia

Re: Planning for next season

Postby SmithyHK » Fri May 17, 2019 8:01 am

Made me swell a bit, partially anesthetised some recent pain. Apologies if someone’s linked already:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/sport/everyones-talking-about-leeds-united-again/16/05/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

EDIT: Andymac you quick on the draw, early rising, cunt :salute:
Death to the Unbelievers

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Tycipa
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:39 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Tycipa » Fri May 17, 2019 8:17 am

welshwhite wrote:Most teams that get promoted would have obviously scored a bagfull of goals - that there would bring me all the excitment needed to fill my football needs, it would have resulted I'd think in winning more games. There's no such thing as an ugly goal.

Give me route one or less ticky tacky football and promotion rather than 65% possession and third place heatbreak every time.

Thanks for those stats Yeboah, they make interesting reading.
I recon Thomas Christiansen would have had similar.


Top of the league three times in recent years only to collapse in the last 3 or 4 months needs to be sorted out. If that means a little more ugly football then bring it cunting on.

We're not Barcelona or Man City (Yet).

Fucking hell, even Welsh is being rational.

6 more goals (from a gazillion chances across 46 games) in the right games and we would have had auto promo.
The fact that we are not taking care of the planet, our children will pay the consequences. With football it will be the same because we're destroying football and in the future we'll see the negative effects. Those who have power are responsible for it.

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welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby welshwhite » Fri May 17, 2019 8:54 am

There's a lot of things right with the club since Radz took over, youth set-up, etc.
We need success in the very near future or we're going to be bringing the promising players on for the likes of Burnley and Bournemouth to nick 'em off us again.

Bielsa has said we more or less can't replicate this season. A season that has ended with playoff failure - whoop-de-cunting-do.

We're running on a 13th to 14th place finish, I have no confidence whatsoever in a top two finish next season, with or without Bielsa, unless people at the top change their mindset.

If bielsa does decide to fuck off then I'll know where the problem has come from.

Andymac-47
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:06 pm
Location: Belfast

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Andymac-47 » Fri May 17, 2019 8:56 am

SmithyHK wrote:Made me swell a bit, partially anesthetised some recent pain. Apologies if someone’s linked already:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/sport/everyones-talking-about-leeds-united-again/16/05/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

EDIT: Andymac you quick on the draw, early rising, cunt :salute:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Andymac

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: London

Re: Planning for next season

Postby dirty leeds » Fri May 17, 2019 9:05 am

welshwhite wrote:Most teams that get promoted would have obviously scored a bagfull of goals - that there would bring me all the excitment needed to fill my football needs, it would have resulted I'd think in winning more games. There's no such thing as an ugly goal.

Give me route one or less ticky tacky football and promotion rather than 65% possession and third place heatbreak every time.

Thanks for those stats Yeboah, they make interesting reading.
I recon Thomas Christiansen would have had similar.


Top of the league three times in recent years only to collapse in the last 3 or 4 months needs to be sorted out. If that means a little more ugly football then bring it cunting on.

We're not Barcelona or Man City (Yet).


That's a false set-up, though. You might as well say. 'Give me promotion rather than guiding my dad into my mum'. It's not about one thing or the other - you just made it up as the only two choices. And neither of the promoted teams played route one. A better striker up top might have been all the difference we required.

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welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby welshwhite » Fri May 17, 2019 9:14 am

dirty leeds wrote:
welshwhite wrote:Most teams that get promoted would have obviously scored a bagfull of goals - that there would bring me all the excitment needed to fill my football needs, it would have resulted I'd think in winning more games. There's no such thing as an ugly goal.

Give me route one or less ticky tacky football and promotion rather than 65% possession and third place heatbreak every time.

Thanks for those stats Yeboah, they make interesting reading.
I recon Thomas Christiansen would have had similar.


Top of the league three times in recent years only to collapse in the last 3 or 4 months needs to be sorted out. If that means a little more ugly football then bring it cunting on.

We're not Barcelona or Man City (Yet).


That's a false set-up, though. You might as well say. 'Give me promotion rather than guiding my dad into my mum'. It's not about one thing or the other - you just made it up as the only two choices. And neither of the promoted teams played route one. A better striker up top might have been all the difference we required.


I added route one as tongue in cheek, teams can't get promoted playing that way, not happened for maybe three decades.
We need to harden up, couple of bigger/stronger players in the spine. teams with bigger players/strong runners have burst through us all season causing us all sorts of problems (plus goals)

Be nice if we had just one or two big fuckers to do the same ourselves, not too many of course, just enough for balance.

When did we last see one of our players bursting through the middle of the park and smashing the ball in. It's just an extra option, a reason to keep Izzy Brown here or bring in someone similar.

Bradley - fucking - Johnson had a good game against us, players like that revel playing us :thumbd:

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Phil LUFC » Fri May 17, 2019 9:36 am

jackos wrote:
Phil LUFC wrote:Also need to replace anyone from 2. who does actually go. If its Pontus it doesn't need to be a colossus - a taller/less violent Berardi analogue would do it. If It's Phillips... has that Ronaldo Vieira lad lost any value in the last year?


Surely this season has shown that we need a forth central defender irrespective of what happens with Pontus? Unless one of the kids is ready to move up. Phillip's is lot of things but not CB and we need him in midfield when he's fit.

I don't disagree but priorities. I'd be hoping Halme or another of the U23s would be able to step into the gap, maybe as 3rd choice ahead of Berardi.

I also deliberately chose not to cover any ground for squad players who may leave, it goes without saying if the middle of the road players also go, we have to replace them but Wilko's law suggests we're in the main keeping the same 7 out of 10 guys we have now than gamble on alternative Championship squad fillers.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Yeboah » Fri May 17, 2019 9:45 am

Just to add, we conceded 4 goals on Wednesday night in 50 minutes or so.

And whilst mistakes were made on the pitch, surely a professional football manager can be pragmatic enough to change the tactics once your in a winning position?

There’s a reason managers like Conte, Mourinho etc. Have been so successful.

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welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby welshwhite » Fri May 17, 2019 9:49 am

Wilko's law is probably outdated now, we've now got Opta stats, Players wearing those Black fancy things under their shirts, Etc.

One thing Wilko did know though, to get out of this division you need the likes of a Vinnie Jones or Chris Kamara in your side when you play a team with one thing on their mind.

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thestraw
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby thestraw » Fri May 17, 2019 9:58 am

As others with an actual brain have alluded to, retaining Bielsa and his team is the number 1 priority for next season. Reading between the lines I suspect that Marcelo wants to break up a fair chunk of the first team and rebuild again - i just hope Radz can not only convince him to stay but back him and follow through on any promises with regards to recruitment.

If Roofe doesn't sign a new contract he is the first saleable asset out of the door. We could get maybe £8m for him?
I think Pontus will finally go too, so more money in for him too. Surely we would be looking for at £12m.
I hope that by selling on these 2 players, we could keep Kalvin Phillips - he is the key play to retain and i suspect Bielsa thinks the same.
Most other players are replaceable easily enough, with the exception of Pablo. I dont know if he is done or just needs a rest to go again next season again, I suspect he might struggle physically with Bielsa Ball for another year, and he knows it.
Maybe bring Brown back (or similar on loan) is an option.
Saiz might even be back here come July.
I also think we could cash in on Douglas too, he's been disappointing and should be able to replace for something younger a, quicker and cheaper. Could we get £5m for him?
Other players who may leave are Forshaw (get £3m in), Bamford (if anyone will give is £5m and take his wages on).
We might be able to get Harrison back on loan for another season (I can hardly see him braking into City's team).

The priority would be to look at the loan market , and be able to get some quality on this summer we need to look at how derby, Villa and Sheff Utd worked that market really well last season. Striker being the priority. We need quality in, not numbers. A Gayle and a Milner is what this team needs, its all about budgets though.

Lose Bielsa though, and we are in big, big trouble. The void left would be unthinkable and result in mid table mediocrity as opposed to pushing for automatic.
#MOT #GAWA

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Yeboah » Fri May 17, 2019 9:59 am

Phil LUFC wrote:
jackos wrote:
Phil LUFC wrote:Also need to replace anyone from 2. who does actually go. If its Pontus it doesn't need to be a colossus - a taller/less violent Berardi analogue would do it. If It's Phillips... has that Ronaldo Vieira lad lost any value in the last year?


Surely this season has shown that we need a forth central defender irrespective of what happens with Pontus? Unless one of the kids is ready to move up. Phillip's is lot of things but not CB and we need him in midfield when he's fit.

I don't disagree but priorities. I'd be hoping Halme or another of the U23s would be able to step into the gap, maybe as 3rd choice ahead of Berardi.

I also deliberately chose not to cover any ground for squad players who may leave, it goes without saying if the middle of the road players also go, we have to replace them but Wilko's law suggests we're in the main keeping the same 7 out of 10 guys we have now than gamble on alternative Championship squad fillers.


Berardi is the only one with real pace at the back, hence his value.

Not sure on Halme, he’s looked good when coming on.

But , agree the limited money we have available should be spent further up the pitch.

Realistically, next year the core team is

BPF
Ayling
Berra
Alioski
Dallas
Coops
Pablo
Forshaw
Klich

Assuming we can sell or move on..(finance dictates)

KP
PJ
Kiko
Roofe
Bamford

Then try and recruit well to fill the gaps

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Yeboah » Fri May 17, 2019 10:03 am

thestraw wrote:As others with an actual brain have alluded to, retaining Bielsa and his team is the number 1 priority for next season. Reading between the lines I suspect that Marcelo wants to break up a fair chunk of the first team and rebuild again - i just hope Radz can not only convince him to stay but back him and follow through on any promises with regards to recruitment.

If Roofe doesn't sign a new contract he is the first saleable asset out of the door.
I think Pontus will finally go too, so more money in for him too.
I hope that by selling on these 2 players, we could keep Kalvin Phillips - he is the key play to retain and i suspect Bielsa thinks the same.
Most other players are replaceable easily enough, with the exception of Pablo. I dont know if he is done or just needs a rest to go again next season again, I suspect he might struggle physically with Bielsa Ball for another year, and he knows it.
Maybe bring Brown back (or similar on loan) is an option.
Saiz might even be back here come July.
I also think we could cash in on Douglas too, he's been disappointing and should be able to replace for something younger a, quicker and cheaper.
Other players who may leave are Forshaw, Bamford (if anyone will give is £5m and take his wages on).
We might be able to get Harrison back on loan for another season (I can hardly see him braking into City's team).

The priority would be to look at the loan market , and be able to get some quality on this summer we need to look at how derby, Villa and Sheff Utd worked that market really well last season. Striker being the priority. We need quality in, not numbers.

Lose Bielsa though, and we are in big, big trouble. The void left would be unthinkable and result in mid table mediocrity as opposed to pushing for automatic.


The last 23 games of Bielsa ver. 2018/19 puts us 9th in the league...lower if you include playoffs.

Why would next years version suddenly be 1st or 2nd...?

Genuine question as I don’t understand the logic once you take emotion out.

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Phil LUFC » Fri May 17, 2019 10:03 am

Yeboah wrote:Just to add, we conceded 4 goals on Wednesday night in 50 minutes or so.

And whilst mistakes were made on the pitch, surely a professional football manager can be pragmatic enough to change the tactics once your in a winning position?

There’s a reason managers like Conte, Mourinho etc. Have been so successful.

I very much understand your opinion on this and I'm not entirely unsympathetic. Over the course of the season I've seen enough to think I understand both why Bielsa is so highly regarded AND why he's never quite got the biggest jobs. I suppose the difference is: I think the unwillingness to bend is ultimately worth is for the positives he brings a club like ours. I don't believe we can do any better and we've certainly done a lot worse for the majority of seasons since relegation in 04, maybe longer.

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thestraw
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby thestraw » Fri May 17, 2019 10:06 am

Yeboah wrote:
thestraw wrote:As others with an actual brain have alluded to, retaining Bielsa and his team is the number 1 priority for next season. Reading between the lines I suspect that Marcelo wants to break up a fair chunk of the first team and rebuild again - i just hope Radz can not only convince him to stay but back him and follow through on any promises with regards to recruitment.

If Roofe doesn't sign a new contract he is the first saleable asset out of the door.
I think Pontus will finally go too, so more money in for him too.
I hope that by selling on these 2 players, we could keep Kalvin Phillips - he is the key play to retain and i suspect Bielsa thinks the same.
Most other players are replaceable easily enough, with the exception of Pablo. I dont know if he is done or just needs a rest to go again next season again, I suspect he might struggle physically with Bielsa Ball for another year, and he knows it.
Maybe bring Brown back (or similar on loan) is an option.
Saiz might even be back here come July.
I also think we could cash in on Douglas too, he's been disappointing and should be able to replace for something younger a, quicker and cheaper.
Other players who may leave are Forshaw, Bamford (if anyone will give is £5m and take his wages on).
We might be able to get Harrison back on loan for another season (I can hardly see him braking into City's team).

The priority would be to look at the loan market , and be able to get some quality on this summer we need to look at how derby, Villa and Sheff Utd worked that market really well last season. Striker being the priority. We need quality in, not numbers.

Lose Bielsa though, and we are in big, big trouble. The void left would be unthinkable and result in mid table mediocrity as opposed to pushing for automatic.


The last 23 games of Bielsa ver. 2018/19 puts us 9th in the league...lower if you include playoffs.

Why would next years version suddenly be 1st or 2nd...?

Genuine question as I don’t understand the logic once you take emotion out.

But the season isn't 23 games long for a start! So why use that stat to twist your argument. Look at the whole season. If we had a striker that could finish and an experienced leader like Milner in the middle - we go up automatically.
#MOT #GAWA

rss1969
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:52 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby rss1969 » Fri May 17, 2019 10:32 am

Bielsa also stated on a number of occasions that our chance creation actually increased in the 2nd half of the season.

The lack of a striker with a killer instinct has kept us down. The more chances we missed, the more we pushed on to create further chances. The Brentford and Wigan games being good examples of this. 36 shots at goal vs 10 men and only 1 goal?

Put Tammy Abraham or similar in our team and we would have been champions.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Yeboah » Fri May 17, 2019 10:41 am

thestraw wrote:But the season isn't 23 games long for a start! So why use that stat to twist your argument. Look at the whole season. If we had a striker that could finish and an experienced leader like Milner in the middle - we go up automatically.


I’m not saying anyone is right or wrong, I’m just trying to understand the logic.

Of course the league isn’t 23 games long, but surely what happened more recently is a better indicator of future performance than something that happened 8/9 months ago?

If you think Bielsa can get auto promotion here, then he needs to get back to pre Xmas form. He had 23 games to do that this season...and didn’t.

So, again I ask, why will next year be different to these last 23 games.....what needs to change.? What will change?

Your argument is that pre Xmas Leeds is the norm, when all the evidence points against that been true.

The likely truth lies between the 2 positions, I.e. playoffs again...maybe.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Yeboah » Fri May 17, 2019 10:43 am

rss1969 wrote:Bielsa also stated on a number of occasions that our chance creation actually increased in the 2nd half of the season.

The lack of a striker with a killer instinct has kept us down. The more chances we missed, the more we pushed on to create further chances. The Brentford and Wigan games being good examples of this. 36 shots at goal vs 10 men and only 1 goal?

Put Tammy Abraham or similar in our team and we would have been champions.


Not sure on definition of chances , real proper chances.

But I watched the Wigan game and 2nd half we never really looked like scoring.

Besides we don’t have the money to get a Tammy Abraham type player.

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welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby welshwhite » Fri May 17, 2019 10:44 am

rss1969 wrote:Bielsa also stated on a number of occasions that our chance creation actually increased in the 2nd half of the season.

The lack of a striker with a killer instinct has kept us down. The more chances we missed, the more we pushed on to create further chances. The Brentford and Wigan games being good examples of this. 36 shots at goal vs 10 men and only 1 goal?

Put Tammy Abraham or similar in our team and we would have been champions.


It frustrated the fuck out of our coach, he mentioned it many times.

I hope it was not on his advice that we brought Bamford here, I doubt it though.
Maybe the 49ers wanted to see some of their money spent so we sort of panic bought him.

I think we all* agree he was a mistake and he needs shifting if we're planing on going up.

*Except Ballgirl, she's obviously got the hots for him :thumbl:

rss1969
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:52 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby rss1969 » Fri May 17, 2019 10:57 am

Yeboah wrote:
rss1969 wrote:Bielsa also stated on a number of occasions that our chance creation actually increased in the 2nd half of the season.

The lack of a striker with a killer instinct has kept us down. The more chances we missed, the more we pushed on to create further chances. The Brentford and Wigan games being good examples of this. 36 shots at goal vs 10 men and only 1 goal?

Put Tammy Abraham or similar in our team and we would have been champions.


Not sure on definition of chances , real proper chances.

But I watched the Wigan game and 2nd half we never really looked like scoring.

Besides we don’t have the money to get a Tammy Abraham type player.


We havent been prolific from inside the box or outside the box. Not every goal scored is a 2 yard tap in but we have been particularly bad at those types of goals (Wigan, Brum, Reading, Brentford I could go on and on) Your comment about us not looking like scoring vs Wigan actually back up what I have posted. With Bamford on the pitch we look like scoring less often than when he does not play.

Pukki cost fuck all and scored 28 goals.

It seems that whatever point is put forward you are not happy with Bielsa and will dig out any type of fact to dismiss his impact.

Pulis is available. Maybe you would be delighted if we bring him in?

London_White
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:17 pm
Location: exiled in west sussex

Re: Planning for next season

Postby London_White » Fri May 17, 2019 10:58 am

rss1969 wrote:Bielsa also stated on a number of occasions that our chance creation actually increased in the 2nd half of the season.

The lack of a striker with a killer instinct has kept us down. The more chances we missed, the more we pushed on to create further chances.


Last 8 league games 167 shots 39 on target 7 goals
Opponents 62 shots 21 on target 9 goals

over 2.5 times as many shots nearly twice as many on target yet fewer goals (this includes the two v Villa by the way) - doesn't look to me like the issue is really with the defending, if the opponents can score with one shot in three but it takes us seven then it's clear we haven't got the firepower, either that or we don't have the guile/nous to create better opportunities and end up shooting from worse positions.


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