Planning for next season

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metalsmurf
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:08 am
Location: Littleborough, Gtr Scumland

Re: Planning for next season

Postby metalsmurf » Thu May 16, 2019 5:23 pm

Andymac-47 wrote:https://twitter.com/Fergusleung8/status/1128771265299394561?s=19

This is brilliant. Made me laugh for the first time today. It's the music!

That's some funny shit right there, I'm stealing it.
Because a thing seems difficult for you, do not think it impossible for anyone to accomplish.

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metalsmurf
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:08 am
Location: Littleborough, Gtr Scumland

Re: Planning for next season

Postby metalsmurf » Thu May 16, 2019 6:36 pm

metalsmurf wrote:
AndyPaul wrote:Keep Bielsa
2 new strikers as Roofe will leave and Bamford is no good
2 new keepers
A new Hernandez
2 new centre backs

Easy

I don't see Roofe leaving. Don't think he's shown enough this season that a bigger team will come in for him. Too many injuries.

Just realised he's almost OOC so as you were
Because a thing seems difficult for you, do not think it impossible for anyone to accomplish.

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Phil LUFC » Thu May 16, 2019 7:45 pm

Little bit late to this one and I think of my view has been expressed already across this thread but here goes:

1. Infrastructure and Culture

What Bielsa has done for the club as a whole is something special, I'm sure there's more to do to cement it all though. He needs to be retained for next season, the general approach he's brought needs to become the culture at the club, Corboran should be groomed as Bielsa's successor, when the time comes.

2. Outgoings

It's way too early to know where players heads are at but we do know we tend to lose at least one big player a season. Trying to figure out who has a market value:
Phillips - Undoubtedly good enough for a higher level in the role he now occupies and I think he knows it. He shouldn't be allowed to go cheap though, can we get someone to part with over £10m?
Jansson - We've had 3 years out of him, which is 2 more than many thought, will he now be looking upwards without us?
Roofe - I think the injuries disguise his impact this season so hopefully he'll sign a new contract rather than go into his final season. If I were looking to gamble on a "lower league" striker I think I'd look at Gayle and Maupay before considering Roofe so would imagine his real options would be a sideways move.

After that I'm struggling. I'm taking Ekuban as a done deal for the reported £1m-£2m and assuming we'll end up taking £3m ish for Saiz - can't see him back here. Also assuming the lads loaned out this season will either be moved on or given a chance in the U23s but no further.

Harrison and Brown obviously leaving (though I wouldn't against both returning if they can come in on average wages if only for some consistency and a belief we likely won't go all out for true quality.

3. Retained/promoted/can't get rid of/general need to retain a good level of consistency

Kiko will be our #1, he's contracted for years and won't be on low wages, we'd struggle to ship him out. BPF may as well remain as his backup (and must fancy his chances of being #1 again soon).
Ayling is championship at best, he knows he's onto a good thing the way we play. Likewise Douglas, Berardi, Cooper, Forshaw, Dallas and probably Klich and Alioski.
Roberts stop/start season will likely see him stay through lack of big offers and I'd like to think Clarke/Shackleton would fancy the KP approach rather than the Byram approach - regular first team players next season.
Bamford because we'll not get our money back and he might be ok from the bench for 20 minutes/away from the main striking role

4. Stepping up from the U23s

In addition to CLarke/Shack having full seasons there will be 2 or 3 more on the fringes, not exactly sure who though - Bogusz maybe? Edmondson?

5. Incomings

We've got to replace Pablo so at the very least he can sprinkle some magic without needing to carry the team and play anything like 46 games. We've got to replace Saiz so whoever replaces Pablo isn't expected to carry the team alone. I'd love Milner to be the main man but I doubt he'd drop to the Championship, still too good.

We've got to replace Harrison and we were in the market for another winger anyway. Bielsa found James before he really announced himself 2nd half of the season, have to hope he has other players identified. I'd also like to think there are many good players who've seen how we play and really fancy some of that - whether we could finance them over a low end PL option likely to scupper this thought though.

Also need to replace anyone from 2. who does actually go. If its Pontus it doesn't need to be a colossus - a taller/less violent Berardi analogue would do it. If It's Phillips... has that Ronaldo Vieira lad lost any value in the last year?

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eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
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Re: Planning for next season

Postby eric olthwaite » Thu May 16, 2019 8:04 pm

Maupay’s a great shout. He must know Brentford will take him no higher, he seems like a natural Bielsista, but he’s probably barely Prem quality.

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Phil LUFC » Thu May 16, 2019 8:12 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:Maupay’s a great shout. He must know Brentford will take him no higher, he seems like a natural Bielsista, but he’s probably barely Prem quality.

I suspect that still makes him too expensive for us though. I agree he's probably barely prem quality but you'd think your Brighton's of this world would look there before looking at Roofe.

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Quiffy » Thu May 16, 2019 8:50 pm

maupay :thumbl:

i think marcelo likes a true number 9 type, (my limited knowledge is using llorente and batistuta as a justification of this), maupay may lack the finer touches of bamford but is a right bastard to play against (i bet) and won't get bullied.

trouble is bamford got fuck all service last night, though arguably wasn't enough of a problem for their centre backs, maupay would always be a problem, but there's no point getting a striker if we don't feed him properly, so i'd be focusing on getting a samu saiz replacement first.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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Phil LUFC
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Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Phil LUFC » Thu May 16, 2019 9:02 pm

Quiffy wrote:maupay :thumbl:

i think marcelo likes a true number 9 type, (my limited knowledge is using llorente and batistuta as a justification of this), maupay may lack the finer touches of bamford but is a right bastard to play against (i bet) and won't get bullied.

trouble is bamford got fuck all service last night, though arguably wasn't enough of a problem for their centre backs, maupay would always be a problem, but there's no point getting a striker if we don't feed him properly, so i'd be focusing on getting a samu saiz replacement first.

Na, get the striker then figure out how to feed him. This team started the season by feeding Roofe wonderfully, we never really figured out what Bamford's strengths were (maybe he doesn't have any?), it wasn't getting on the end of crosses, low or high.

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Quiffy » Thu May 16, 2019 9:23 pm

Roofe was better at the start of the season cos he was playing in front of a better midfield. He's played one decent game since coming back as the midfield, pablo and all, haven't been as good.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

Mr Reality
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Mr Reality » Thu May 16, 2019 10:20 pm

Would be interested to see a front 3 of Roofe Clarke and Roberts.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Yeboah » Thu May 16, 2019 10:30 pm

Phil LUFC wrote:Little bit late to this one and I think of my view has been expressed already across this thread but here goes:

1. Infrastructure and Culture

What Bielsa has done for the club as a whole is something special, I'm sure there's more to do to cement it all though. He needs to be retained for next season, the general approach he's brought needs to become the culture at the club, Corboran should be groomed as Bielsa's successor, when the time comes.

2. Outgoings

It's way too early to know where players heads are at but we do know we tend to lose at least one big player a season. Trying to figure out who has a market value:
Phillips - Undoubtedly good enough for a higher level in the role he now occupies and I think he knows it. He shouldn't be allowed to go cheap though, can we get someone to part with over £10m?
Jansson - We've had 3 years out of him, which is 2 more than many thought, will he now be looking upwards without us?
Roofe - I think the injuries disguise his impact this season so hopefully he'll sign a new contract rather than go into his final season. If I were looking to gamble on a "lower league" striker I think I'd look at Gayle and Maupay before considering Roofe so would imagine his real options would be a sideways move.

After that I'm struggling. I'm taking Ekuban as a done deal for the reported £1m-£2m and assuming we'll end up taking £3m ish for Saiz - can't see him back here. Also assuming the lads loaned out this season will either be moved on or given a chance in the U23s but no further.

Harrison and Brown obviously leaving (though I wouldn't against both returning if they can come in on average wages if only for some consistency and a belief we likely won't go all out for true quality.

3. Retained/promoted/can't get rid of/general need to retain a good level of consistency

Kiko will be our #1, he's contracted for years and won't be on low wages, we'd struggle to ship him out. BPF may as well remain as his backup (and must fancy his chances of being #1 again soon).
Ayling is championship at best, he knows he's onto a good thing the way we play. Likewise Douglas, Berardi, Cooper, Forshaw, Dallas and probably Klich and Alioski.
Roberts stop/start season will likely see him stay through lack of big offers and I'd like to think Clarke/Shackleton would fancy the KP approach rather than the Byram approach - regular first team players next season.
Bamford because we'll not get our money back and he might be ok from the bench for 20 minutes/away from the main striking role

4. Stepping up from the U23s

In addition to CLarke/Shack having full seasons there will be 2 or 3 more on the fringes, not exactly sure who though - Bogusz maybe? Edmondson?

5. Incomings

We've got to replace Pablo so at the very least he can sprinkle some magic without needing to carry the team and play anything like 46 games. We've got to replace Saiz so whoever replaces Pablo isn't expected to carry the team alone. I'd love Milner to be the main man but I doubt he'd drop to the Championship, still too good.

We've got to replace Harrison and we were in the market for another winger anyway. Bielsa found James before he really announced himself 2nd half of the season, have to hope he has other players identified. I'd also like to think there are many good players who've seen how we play and really fancy some of that - whether we could finance them over a low end PL option likely to scupper this thought though.

Also need to replace anyone from 2. who does actually go. If its Pontus it doesn't need to be a colossus - a taller/less violent Berardi analogue would do it. If It's Phillips... has that Ronaldo Vieira lad lost any value in the last year?



great post, but the cold hard economic facts are that we need £15m in, just to stand still.

Any further investment needs to come from more sales or Radz putting his hands in his pockets.

The loanees will return and are still all in contract, hinders other incomings as we can't afford to pay them off.

I think the Jansson, Roofe, Phillips shout is good....Roofe isn't good enough all round consistently. Jansson is the most saleable. Phillips is very, very limited in the role he plays. Might be another one for Bournemouth at 6-8m. That should just about balance the books.

Also look to offload Cooper, proven not to be a big game player...Sheff U at home and last night as prime examples. Douglas is also still sellable for decent cash. Bamford could also go, proven at a higher level and we will get offered if we want them.

Also got to remember that Bielsa is on 3 times more than the next best paid champ manager. For a club like ours thats a massive financial commitment , nearly 10% of turnover.

Is it worth it...?

If the norm for LUFC under MB is post Xmas form then arguably no. If pre-Xmas form then yes.

Undoubtedly the team has regressed throughout the year and other clubs have realised that if they just sit in, we are unlikely to break them down.

Also think that Bielsa needs to be more pragmatic to succeed in any UK league. Having no plan B, doesn't work. Also needs to accept a bigger squad.

Ultimately, as most know I'm not a Bielsa fan. Its great that he's stirred the fans emotions but take emotion out and LUFC have snatched disaster from the jaws of success.

Hughton is available, proven promotioner, would cost less.

Get him in and let the 23's have more of a crack at it. The only way to go I think

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Yeboah » Thu May 16, 2019 10:51 pm

Just for those who want context...

2nd half of season... after Xmas, championship only.

Played 23
Won 11
Lost 10
Drawn 2

Points 35.

Over a full season, I.e. 70 points.

9th on goal difference.

Mr Reality
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Mr Reality » Thu May 16, 2019 11:13 pm

Wage budget probably around 12-14th for a bit more context.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Yeboah » Thu May 16, 2019 11:27 pm

Mr Reality wrote:Wage budget probably around 12-14th for a bit more context.


Apart from the blunts having a lower budget, the difference across the 2 halves of the season wouldn’t be explained by money.

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
Location: Arse end of nowhere

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Blackwhite » Fri May 17, 2019 1:19 am

The shortsightedness up there ∆∆∆∆∆ is amazing.


Totally binary thinking. Winning is all. Fuck beauty. Fuck inspiration. Fuck thrills. Fuck enjoyment.


I can only imagine the gobble fest if Fat Frank gets promoted. "Now there's achievement from my Chelsea darling" etc

Puke-worthy.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby jackos » Fri May 17, 2019 4:38 am

Phil LUFC wrote:Also need to replace anyone from 2. who does actually go. If its Pontus it doesn't need to be a colossus - a taller/less violent Berardi analogue would do it. If It's Phillips... has that Ronaldo Vieira lad lost any value in the last year?


Surely this season has shown that we need a forth central defender irrespective of what happens with Pontus? Unless one of the kids is ready to move up. Phillip's is lot of things but not CB and we need him in midfield when he's fit.

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby jackos » Fri May 17, 2019 4:39 am

eric olthwaite wrote:Maupay’s a great shout. He must know Brentford will take him no higher, he seems like a natural Bielsista, but he’s probably barely Prem quality.


I think Phil meant that PL clubs would go for him or Gayle before Roofe, not that we might be able to get him.

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Tycipa
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:39 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Tycipa » Fri May 17, 2019 5:30 am

Blackwhite wrote:The shortsightedness up there ∆∆∆∆∆ is amazing.


Totally binary thinking. Winning is all. Fuck beauty. Fuck inspiration. Fuck thrills. Fuck enjoyment.


I can only imagine the gobble fest if Fat Frank gets promoted. "Now there's achievement from my Chelsea darling" etc

Puke-worthy.

You’re wrong on this one BW, Yeboah is being very rational and makes some very valid points.
The fact that we are not taking care of the planet, our children will pay the consequences. With football it will be the same because we're destroying football and in the future we'll see the negative effects. Those who have power are responsible for it.

Mr Reality
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Mr Reality » Fri May 17, 2019 5:52 am

Yeboah wrote:
Mr Reality wrote:Wage budget probably around 12-14th for a bit more context.


Apart from the blunts having a lower budget, the difference across the 2 halves of the season wouldn’t be explained by money.


The second half of the season was a regression to the mean but was still better than what was expected.

Andymac-47
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:06 pm
Location: Belfast

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Andymac-47 » Fri May 17, 2019 6:01 am

Andymac

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welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby welshwhite » Fri May 17, 2019 7:51 am

Most teams that get promoted would have obviously scored a bagfull of goals - that there would bring me all the excitment needed to fill my football needs, it would have resulted I'd think in winning more games. There's no such thing as an ugly goal.

Give me route one or less ticky tacky football and promotion rather than 65% possession and third place heatbreak every time.

Thanks for those stats Yeboah, they make interesting reading.
I recon Thomas Christiansen would have had similar.


Top of the league three times in recent years only to collapse in the last 3 or 4 months needs to be sorted out. If that means a little more ugly football then bring it cunting on.

We're not Barcelona or Man City (Yet).


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