Planning for next season

Discussion on LUFC and absolutely anything... welcome to the Dark Side
User avatar
dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: London

Re: Planning for next season

Postby dirty leeds » Wed May 22, 2019 2:49 pm

Yeboah wrote:Chairman seems to understand ok...

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... -1-9782913


Yeah, I hope he does. in any case, it's what I want him to be saying at this stage of proceedings. No sense in getting everybody thinking Leeds are going to be splashing loads of spare cash [whether or not we have any, which we almost certainly don't].

User avatar
welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby welshwhite » Wed May 22, 2019 3:13 pm

I can hear the sound of our better players picking up their mobiles to ring their agents from here.

Radz's five year plan was always doomed for failure.
Another fucking chancer.

He should do the right thing and ride off into the sunset.

We need experience and players able to cope with pressure.
Untried kids is the last thing we need as first teamers.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Yeboah » Wed May 22, 2019 3:22 pm

welshwhite wrote:I can hear the sound of our better players picking up their mobiles to ring their agents from here.

Radz's five year plan was always doomed for failure.
Another fucking chancer.

He should do the right thing and ride off into the sunset.

We need experience and players able to cope with pressure.
Untried kids is the last thing we need as first teamers.


FFP rules prevent him putting too much money in (as his own) even if he wanted to.

Not sure what you want him or any other owner to do.

It’s the nature of the league.

Not paying the coaching staff over £6m would be my first calling point.

User avatar
Oheddieeddie
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:35 pm
Location: Tacky with sweat and poisonous particulates.

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Oheddieeddie » Wed May 22, 2019 3:32 pm

With the squad Bielsa had we were lucky to finish top half. I honestly think that Heckers would have taken this lot down this season

We are playing a style he invented and knows. Ether than anyone with well drilled players that got us here, that's why it's laughable when people say he should be more flexible with tactics or swap personel.

As the pod points out we were unlucky to only have 1 striker fit at almost any point in the season. We don't need to have a load of signings to thrive really. I'd try and prise Harrison away if city don't want much, because knowing this system is worth a hell of a lot (and he has massive potential I believe)

Alioski and Roofe are like different players now thanks to a proper coaching set up, and I think the squad continues to improve in a way that we could not have expected.

Those who say Bielsa takes up too much of our budget.... you've really had a nightmare, hang your heads!

User avatar
welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby welshwhite » Wed May 22, 2019 4:05 pm

Alioski and Harrison gave poor returns for assists and goals.
No more chances for them as an attacking force.
Shacks and Clarke to fill their boots.

Cash in on Roofe as he's not a number nine.
Spend his money on a midfield enforcer.

Swap Phillips for Gayle and we're ready to take to the seas on the good ship HMS Bielsa.

It's the only way we can do things under Radz.

So be it.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Yeboah » Wed May 22, 2019 4:53 pm

welshwhite wrote:Alioski and Harrison gave poor returns for assists and goals.
No more chances for them as an attacking force.
Shacks and Clarke to fill their boots.

Cash in on Roofe as he's not a number nine.
Spend his money on a midfield enforcer.

Swap Phillips for Gayle and we're ready to take to the seas on the good ship HMS Bielsa.

It's the only way we can do things under Radz.

So be it.


Spend ‘his’ money???

There is no fucking money!!!

Selling Roofe means we lose £17m not £20m per year.

I know there is a left leaning bias on here and some are communist but there is no magic money tree!

get real!

Andymac-47
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:06 pm
Location: Belfast

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Andymac-47 » Wed May 22, 2019 5:16 pm

Doesn't look like PJ, is going anywhere!

Andymac

User avatar
eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
Location: Over there, behind that bush

Re: Planning for next season

Postby eric olthwaite » Wed May 22, 2019 5:37 pm

Wondered how he felt on Weds TBH. He’s been a dick in some games right enough, but starting Berra ahead of him ranks fairly highly on my list of ‘Not entirely sure about that m9’ MB decisions.

User avatar
welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby welshwhite » Wed May 22, 2019 5:47 pm

Are you saying we're running the club at a loss, Yebs?

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Yeboah » Wed May 22, 2019 5:52 pm

welshwhite wrote:Are you saying we're running the club at a loss, Yebs?


I assume that’s irony?

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Yeboah » Wed May 22, 2019 5:53 pm

Andymac-47 wrote:Doesn't look like PJ, is going anywhere!



Won’t be his decision

Andymac-47
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:06 pm
Location: Belfast

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Andymac-47 » Wed May 22, 2019 5:57 pm

Oh for fucks sake!
Andymac

User avatar
Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Phil LUFC » Wed May 22, 2019 6:31 pm

Yeboah wrote:
welshwhite wrote:Alioski and Harrison gave poor returns for assists and goals.
No more chances for them as an attacking force.
Shacks and Clarke to fill their boots.

Cash in on Roofe as he's not a number nine.
Spend his money on a midfield enforcer.

Swap Phillips for Gayle and we're ready to take to the seas on the good ship HMS Bielsa.

It's the only way we can do things under Radz.

So be it.


Spend ‘his’ money???

There is no fucking money!!!

Selling Roofe means we lose £17m not £20m per year.

I know there is a left leaning bias on here and some are communist but there is no magic money tree!

get real!

Let's get one thing straight, the £20m is a long way from fact right now. The last accounts published showed a moderate loss, the next accounts are expected to show a big increase in costs due to Bielsa and his team + more expensive players as we tried to step it up a notch. I've seen estimates ranging from 10-20m but it's also been acknowledged that the sale of Vieira will help offset this. It's also likely there will be at least one sizeable sale this summer.

We won't know the exact numbers for 18/19 until very late next season.

No-one wants regular £20m losses, it's not sustainable. But it's also a fact that very few teams in this league make a profit, those who do generally don't challenge (or are only profitable due to parachute payments). 1 or even 2 seasons losing a combined £30m while having a go is now the accepted norm under FFP I think. Have a go, have a 2nd attempt, maybe a 3rd at an absolute push then it's 2 really shit years with a cheaper squad buying the wiggle room to do it all again.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Planning for next season

Postby Yeboah » Wed May 22, 2019 6:37 pm

Phil LUFC wrote:
Yeboah wrote:
welshwhite wrote:Alioski and Harrison gave poor returns for assists and goals.
No more chances for them as an attacking force.
Shacks and Clarke to fill their boots.

Cash in on Roofe as he's not a number nine.
Spend his money on a midfield enforcer.

Swap Phillips for Gayle and we're ready to take to the seas on the good ship HMS Bielsa.

It's the only way we can do things under Radz.

So be it.


Spend ‘his’ money???

There is no fucking money!!!

Selling Roofe means we lose £17m not £20m per year.

I know there is a left leaning bias on here and some are communist but there is no magic money tree!

get real!

Let's get one thing straight, the £20m is a long way from fact right now. The last accounts published showed a moderate loss, the next accounts are expected to show a big increase in costs due to Bielsa and his team + more expensive players as we tried to step it up a notch. I've seen estimates ranging from 10-20m but it's also been acknowledged that the sale of Vieira will help offset this. It's also likely there will be at least one sizeable sale this summer.

We won't know the exact numbers for 18/19 until very late next season.

No-one wants regular £20m losses, it's not sustainable. But it's also a fact that very few teams in this league make a profit, those who do generally don't challenge (or are only profitable due to parachute payments). 1 or even 2 seasons losing a combined £30m while having a go is now the accepted norm under FFP I think. Have a go, have a 2nd attempt, maybe a 3rd at an absolute push then it's 2 really shit years with a cheaper squad buying the wiggle room to do it all again.


The £20m operating loss for the season just ended was mentioned by Phil Hay in YEP. So no, not fact but a good source.

The official loss last year included a cash injection from shareholders of more than £10m ..cash. I.e. without it the official loss was £14m+

My point to anyone is that, if we sell players we don’t have that cash to spend without putting the club further in debt.

It’s also why ‘being happy playing ticki tacka’ is just fucking mental. It can’t happen.

User avatar
jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby jackos » Wed May 22, 2019 6:49 pm

Oheddieeddie wrote:With the squad Bielsa had we were lucky to finish top half. I honestly think that Heckers would have taken this lot down this season!


Problem is that the wage bill for that squad was 2x that of the squad Cellini left him, so despite its obvious limitations it was very expensive.

User avatar
moscowhite
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:47 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby moscowhite » Wed May 22, 2019 7:43 pm

Andymac-47 wrote:Doesn't look like PJ, is going anywhere!



That's not a real quote from Jansson.

Yeboah wrote:
Spend ‘his’ money???

There is no fucking money!!!

Selling Roofe means we lose £17m not £20m per year.

I know there is a left leaning bias on here and some are communist but there is no magic money tree!

get real!
Phil LUFC wrote:Let's get one thing straight, the £20m is a long way from fact right now. The last accounts published showed a moderate loss, the next accounts are expected to show a big increase in costs due to Bielsa and his team + more expensive players as we tried to step it up a notch. I've seen estimates ranging from 10-20m but it's also been acknowledged that the sale of Vieira will help offset this. It's also likely there will be at least one sizeable sale this summer.

We won't know the exact numbers for 18/19 until very late next season.

No-one wants regular £20m losses, it's not sustainable. But it's also a fact that very few teams in this league make a profit, those who do generally don't challenge (or are only profitable due to parachute payments). 1 or even 2 seasons losing a combined £30m while having a go is now the accepted norm under FFP I think. Have a go, have a 2nd attempt, maybe a 3rd at an absolute push then it's 2 really shit years with a cheaper squad buying the wiggle room to do it all again.


The £20m operating loss for the season just ended was mentioned by Phil Hay in YEP. So no, not fact but a good source.

The official loss last year included a cash injection from shareholders of more than £10m ..cash. I.e. without it the official loss was £14m+

My point to anyone is that, if we sell players we don’t have that cash to spend without putting the club further in debt.


Interestingly, for the period of the last set of accounts, when a £20m operating loss was reduced to £4.3m by selling Chris Wood, the overall debt was reduced:

Debt levels surprisingly fell, falling from £24.6m to £19.9m (19%) as Radrizzani repaid debts owed to their old owners of around £11m and replaced these with shares of £11.0m, meaning that Leeds now owe their owners less money.

On a separate note, Leeds disclosed they are seeking legal advice on the recoverability of a £2.0m debtor, it was not disclosed what this amount relates to, but they will be hoping to recover this amount.

Net debt hence dropped from £20.6m to £17.0m (17%). There is no doubt this amount is likely to increase as Radrizzani begins pumping more money into the club.


Radrizzani declared his hand from the start: he'll try to run the club as sustainably as possible, and spend up to five seasons underwriting reasonable losses in an attempt to win promotion to the Premier League. It might not buy us Dwight Gayle, but it isn't running up anything more than mid-table losses:

Image

And it has made us competitive in a league that is grotesquely lopsided due to parachute payments and the more generous FFP terms allowed to relegated clubs.

Debt-to-owner is probably the only viable way of keeping a non-parachute club afloat in the Championship. Losing £20m a season is pretty much the going rate for just existing in the Championship, but the reasons for that go beyond any individual club: it's structurally fucked.

I've no doubt that if we don't go up and Radrizzani decides to sell, repayment terms will be a factor in a takeover. But the time to really worry is if we're loaning at weird rates from third parties.

As it is, although it might not have got him in the end, the club were offering Swansea around £5m cash for Daniel James in January, on top of however many millions signing Casilla committed us to. That suggested to me that, while we're being run tight — as Radrizzani has said at this Business in Football summit this week — there's money available when Leeds identify players they want.

In terms of budget for next season, we can look straight away at the outlay on Blackman, Baker and Brown. They barely played and we finished 3rd. We're starting again with those loan fees and wages, plus Harrison's, back in the bank — an annual budget to loan four highly-rated players from Premier League clubs (and yes, I know how they turned out, but rewind a year). Add the £5m we didn't spend on James.

At this stage, we need to literally replace Harrison and Saiz as lost from last season's squad (Blackman, Baker and Brown basically don't count because they didn't play). Opinions vary, and while if you can get better you should always get better, I think we need to upgrade on Hernandez (old) and Bamford (doesn't score). Then it's a question of squad depth, and to what extent players like Shackleton, Clarke, Edmondson, Halme, Struijk etc are ready to be senior squad members — we trained them up for a reason, after all — and where we need to buy/loan.

(Edit to add: yes, we may well have to find a replacement if we sell another player to reduce the annual loss. As above, this is the cost of being in the Championship. How we replace them and how much they cost will depend very much on who it is, if anyone. Radrizzani's comments about a 'tight summer' may mean he's going to bite the loss and not sell this year? That might be a generous interpretation. We have to wait and see.)

I think we can afford those changes and have a very good team without a magic communist money tree or whatever the fuck, without sacking Bielsa to save money, and without ending up like Bolton in twelve month's time.

Yeboah wrote:One obvious benefit is that if the club had gone up then it was already sold to the 49ers.


In every interview Radrizzani has given on the subject since he arrived, some of them in the last few weeks, he has reiterated that if we get promoted to the Premier League while he is majority owner he wants to stay majority owner for many, many years. Have you heard something different?

Yeboah wrote:It’s also why ‘being happy playing ticki tacka’ is just fucking mental. It can’t happen.


I don't think I saw any tiki-taka football last season, that's not how Bielsa's teams play. But I did see Leeds win more games than in any season since 2009/10, which suggests to me that Bielsa's football does win games in this league.

As win percentages, Norwich's was 58.7%, Sheffield United's was 56.5%. They won one more game than we did.

Our win percentage was 54.3%, our best for a league season since 1999/00 (55.3%).
'If you give Leeds the ball, they will make you dance.' - Johan Cruyff

User avatar
eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
Location: Over there, behind that bush

Re: Planning for next season

Postby eric olthwaite » Wed May 22, 2019 8:05 pm

Jesus, Yeboah’s all over the fucking shop. Wants promotion because everything else is failure, but also wants the club to run at a profit. How many clubs in the history of the Championship and without parachute payments have achieved promotion whilst running a profit?

‘There is no magic money tree’. Of course there fucking is: Radz and the 49ers. That’s exactly what football’s business model is. Pretty much every club, particularly in the Championship, has an owner spunking money in on the chance they’ll make it back on promotion. It’s a straightforward gamble. Is Radz actually spending money or loading us with debt? Who knows.

User avatar
jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby jackos » Wed May 22, 2019 8:46 pm

moscowhite wrote:
Andymac-47 wrote:Doesn't look like PJ, is going anywhere!



That's not a real quote from Jansson.



Not even close if they're quoting the interview that was in the Swedish press today. He's training with Malmö to stay in form for Sweden next week.

You can Google this ..
https://www.fotbollskanalen.se/england/ ... flyttning/

He says that he doesn't want to speculate about his future, he's really happy in Leeds, but it would have been great to play in the premier league. We missed that opportunity, and with the squad we have ... Then he goes on to say he has three years left on his contract so it would be stupid to speculate about anything else.

If we/he gets an offer from the PL he's off.

User avatar
moscowhite
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:47 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby moscowhite » Wed May 22, 2019 9:59 pm

I don't think they'd even seen that interview, there's just currency in making up total shite and putting it on a picture, because Twitter. It's loosely ripped off the thing I did for FourFourTwo, when he said he didn't want the way last season ended to be the fans' last memory of him at Leeds.

But Jackos, you're the one I need. There's a line in the real interview that I couldn't make head nor tail of.

På en fråga från Kvällsposten om det ändå hade varit trevligt att testa sig i Premier League var svaret:

- Förstå mig rätt. Jag spelade i Malmö fyra-fem säsonger, att man till slut vill ha en ny utmaning. Komma ut och göra samma sak, man kan allting... Vi får se.


Google's literal version, and other online translators were similar, is:

On a question from Kvällsposten if it had still been nice to test in the Premier League, the answer was:

- Understand me right. I played in Malmö for four to five seasons, that one ultimately wants a new challenge. Get out and do the same, you can do everything ... We'll see.


I get the first part; after a while at Malmo he wanted a new challenge so left. But then, 'Get out and do the same, you can do everything ... We'll see' seems to be lost in translation. Any clues? Thanks in advance :)
'If you give Leeds the ball, they will make you dance.' - Johan Cruyff

User avatar
sebastianlovemonkey
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:21 pm

Re: Planning for next season

Postby sebastianlovemonkey » Wed May 22, 2019 10:07 pm

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiz4OzmhrDiAhWh3eAKHW1aAT8QzPwBegQIARAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffinancialfootballnews.com%2Fleeds-uniteds-2018-finances%2F&psig=AOvVaw2C8JaE0M1M-JBHEdP2h3GA&ust=1558645958686451

For a full read of the article Moscow quotes. Key word re transfers in this is amortisation, the way both transfer fees in and out have been spread out and as of April these amounts were fairly similar. The journalist finishes off fairly upbeat about our prospects financially whether we went up or not.


Return to “The Square Ball”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Andymac-47, Devi, Poshwhite and 13 guests