Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

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Blackwhite
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Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:56 pm

Yeboah wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:It sounds like we need the actual facts of the matter to come out - so that it's beyond dispute and/or rumour as to what happened.


Yep agree 100%, given respected journos are reporting as per above and Leeds haven't rebutted that then maybe we can assume they are closer to the truth than not?

Good grief.


Believing Torygraph hacks in 2019 more than your own club.

Fascinating to be able to observe these behaviours in the wild.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

Yeboah
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Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Yeboah » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:01 pm

Phil LUFC wrote:I disagree. Even with the details from the club charter in your previous post, it's vague and open to interpretation. Bielsa believes he's done not wrong, without those plyers having actually been used how do you prove looking over a fence is against the charter? They could hand out a punishment we choose to accept I guess but if we were to contest it there's little chance of it being resolved before the summer - at that point we'd be looking at a future fine.

The EFL need to be very careful before handing out points deductions, pretty much the only reason Brum haven't had theirs yet. The finances involved are beyond what the EFL can reasonably cover. If they deducted 10 points, we stayed down, then won an appeal at a higher court, we'd legitimately be able to sue the EFL for ~£100m lost earnings.

Not withstanding the "it's Leeds, let's make an example" angle, the EFL will be looking for something they can do to placate other clubs whilst avoiding a lengthy battle through the courts. I'm expecting a fine each for Bielsa and the club coupled with a 3 game ban for Bielsa.



The regulation in question is..

Utmost good faith, to league and other clubs.

How is this not in bad faith?

We knew it was wrong, hence change of clothes and pliers.

Hope you're right with sanction

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Yeboah » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:02 pm

Blackwhite wrote:
Yeboah wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:It sounds like we need the actual facts of the matter to come out - so that it's beyond dispute and/or rumour as to what happened.


Yep agree 100%, given respected journos are reporting as per above and Leeds haven't rebutted that then maybe we can assume they are closer to the truth than not?

Good grief.


Believing Torygraph hacks in 2019 more than your own club.

Fascinating to be able to observe these behaviours in the wild.


Every day and twice on a Sunday.

Lefty fuckwits?…..not so much.

Feel free to libel them, I'll let them know.

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
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Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Phil LUFC » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:14 pm

Yeboah wrote:

And the fact is, it wasn't peeking over a fence, it was on hands and knees with pliers in hand, so it seems that there was an intention but it was stopped before that.

Which I don't think he would say unless he was sure of the facts

Oh I don't know, facts didn't get in the way of Lee Johnson claiming Berardi had broken his players nose. Facts didn't stop FL from claiming he'd never witnessed anything like this before (even if he didn't know about AVB he certainly knew about Mourinho bypassing a stadium ban which isn't a million miles away).

Guess we'll see how it plays out but I'll wait for something to be proven which might actually stick before I really start to worry.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Yeboah » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:20 pm

Phil LUFC wrote:
Yeboah wrote:

And the fact is, it wasn't peeking over a fence, it was on hands and knees with pliers in hand, so it seems that there was an intention but it was stopped before that.

Which I don't think he would say unless he was sure of the facts

Oh I don't know, facts didn't get in the way of Lee Johnson claiming Berardi had broken his players nose. Facts didn't stop FL from claiming he'd never witnessed anything like this before (even if he didn't know about AVB he certainly knew about Mourinho bypassing a stadium ban which isn't a million miles away).

Guess we'll see how it plays out but I'll wait for something to be proven which might actually stick before I really start to worry.


Trusting footballers is probably a bad idea...true.

But this was publicly stated, i.e. in a libel sense admissable.

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Phil LUFC
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Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Phil LUFC » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:22 pm

Yeboah wrote:
Phil LUFC wrote:I disagree. Even with the details from the club charter in your previous post, it's vague and open to interpretation. Bielsa believes he's done not wrong, without those pliers having actually been used how do you prove looking over a fence is against the charter? They could hand out a punishment we choose to accept I guess but if we were to contest it there's little chance of it being resolved before the summer - at that point we'd be looking at a future fine.

The EFL need to be very careful before handing out points deductions, pretty much the only reason Brum haven't had theirs yet. The finances involved are beyond what the EFL can reasonably cover. If they deducted 10 points, we stayed down, then won an appeal at a higher court, we'd legitimately be able to sue the EFL for ~£100m lost earnings.

Not withstanding the "it's Leeds, let's make an example" angle, the EFL will be looking for something they can do to placate other clubs whilst avoiding a lengthy battle through the courts. I'm expecting a fine each for Bielsa and the club coupled with a 3 game ban for Bielsa.



The regulation in question is..

Utmost good faith, to league and other clubs.

How is this not in bad faith?

We knew it was wrong, hence change of clothes and pliers.

Hope you're right with sanction

Bielsa clearly doesn't believe it's wrong. If your viewpoint is "everyone does it, don't they?" (Mine isn't, I don't like that we've been doing this) then you could legitimately believe it doesn't contravene "good faith".

The change of clothes is simple - you don't do it with the aim of disrupting training, you go with the aim of learning something without them knowing.

The pliers are the uncomfortable bit, fuck knows the specifics - on what really happened or the legalities.

I think I'm mostly worried of new details coming out, eg actual breaking and entering at other locations, when it turns out we watched West Brom from the canteen and even served their players their lunch to maintain the cover or dug a tunnel to get into Norwich's training ground.

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kennyb41
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Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby kennyb41 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:27 pm

Leeds fans are wary of the EFL and perhaps they’ve got cause to be but we can’t see any way that they would inflict a points deduction on Leeds over something so stupid as this. The Leeds employee was watching from a public place and, okay, maybe it’s against the unwritten rules of sportsmanship, but so are plenty of other things that get ignored every week. If the EFL were to do anything that could have an impact on how the Championship was decided then they’d turn the league into a laughing stock, and we don’t think they dislike Leeds enough to do that. We actually think a fine would be too draconian but that’s where our money is, although we hope that the EFL just sends them a letter reminding them of their duties in the game. Bielsa must be wondering what’s going on with the crazy Brits and, to be honest, we are too.
Just coz you're paranoid doesn't mean people aren't after you....Show me a good loser and i'll show you a fcking loser...I owe I owe it's off to work I go.

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Blackwhite
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Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:28 pm

Yeboah wrote:
Feel free to libel them, I'll let them know.


Oh. A grass too then, yes?
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Yeboah » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:40 pm

Blackwhite wrote:
Yeboah wrote:
Feel free to libel them, I'll let them know.


Oh. A grass too then, yes?


Isn't in civic duty to report a law breaker?

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Blackwhite
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Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:44 pm

Hmm, fellow Leeds fan, involving you being a busybody twat about something innocuous, I dunno, didn't fit for me but you do you.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

Mr Reality
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Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Mr Reality » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:52 pm

Has it been confirmed they had pliers?

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Quiffy
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Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Quiffy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:55 pm

don't you need wire cutters to divide a fence? pliers don't cut things, they hold things in place. maybe he was mending the fence?
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

Mr Reality
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Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Mr Reality » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:07 pm

Quiffy wrote:don't you need wire cutters to divide a fence? pliers don't cut things, they hold things in place. maybe he was mending the fence?


:D

So he was helping Derby sounds like we are due some extra points.

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
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Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby dirty leeds » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:15 pm

Mr Reality wrote:Has it been confirmed they had pliers?


Still unclear, I think.

Wakefield White
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Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Wakefield White » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:17 pm

Yeboah wrote:
Phil LUFC wrote:
The regulation in question is..

Utmost good faith, to league and other clubs.

How is this not in bad faith?

We knew it was wrong, hence change of clothes and pliers.

Hope you're right with sanction


Good faith is a contractual term and refers to not deliberately deceiving the other party so as they may not receive the benefits of a business transaction.

It’s a real stretch to apply it to this situation.
Fuck you Rod Liddle, fuck you in your cunting fuckface you fucking third division cunt!
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Mr Reality
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Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Mr Reality » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:52 pm

dirty leeds wrote:
Mr Reality wrote:Has it been confirmed they had pliers?


Still unclear, I think.


Given that he wasn't arrested it seems some journalists who were critical of bielsa when the story broke have decided to spice up the story.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Yeboah » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:56 pm

Wakefield White wrote:
Yeboah wrote:
Phil LUFC wrote:
The regulation in question is..

Utmost good faith, to league and other clubs.

How is this not in bad faith?

We knew it was wrong, hence change of clothes and pliers.

Hope you're right with sanction


Good faith is a contractual term and refers to not deliberately deceiving the other party so as they may not receive the benefits of a business transaction.

It’s a real stretch to apply it to this situation.


You're applying law to a situation where it won't apply, at least initially. This is purely EFL interpretation.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Yeboah » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:58 pm

Mr Reality wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:
Mr Reality wrote:Has it been confirmed they had pliers?


Still unclear, I think.


Given that he wasn't arrested it seems some journalists who were critical of bielsa when the story broke have decided to spice up the story.


Lampard and multiple journos have said he had equipment and a change of clothes.

Bieksa said he lied about being LUFC employee.

So, no...we only know what people have said.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Yeboah » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:58 pm

Quiffy wrote:don't you need wire cutters to divide a fence? pliers don't cut things, they hold things in place. maybe he was mending the fence?
Or bending it?

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Watchers In The Woods v Cunty Frank's Derby Lampstands CK

Postby Yeboah » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:00 pm

Blackwhite wrote:Hmm, fellow Leeds fan, involving you being a busybody twat about something innocuous, I dunno, didn't fit for me but you do you.


Don't need advice but thanks.

Be careful what you alledge on a public forum.


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