Brexshit Blunderland

Discussion on LUFC and absolutely anything... welcome to the Dark Side
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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby jackos » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:52 pm

Blackwhite wrote:Couldn't we just wait fifteen years and that noise would, well, die down?


Much easier for you to apply for a job in Germany or Canada BW..

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
Location: Arse end of nowhere

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Blackwhite » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:06 pm

US has been calling for years, increasingly so, but as discussed, naaah, ta.


Let's sort this shit out.
No secret I'm keen for some Richard Murphy-tastic national investment fund, and if you go to the US enough you'll know what we got right here, and what's valuable to do as a nation.


Tell your MP.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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the flying pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby the flying pig » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:15 pm

jackos wrote:Second referendum and UK staying in the EU after this sounds like a nightmare to me. We'd have another 20 years of bitching from exitors, growth of new right wing independence party, which all risks infecting the rest of the EU with the same bullshit. Would be a lot better to end it. Norway type agreement would be ideal if it can be done. But expensive so not what voters were promised


yeah, i dunno. if you look at the reasons why people voted for brexit, the NHS lie, which was an outright lie rather than standard political artistic licence, loomed so large as to trivially easily invalidate the 52:48 result.

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/ ... approaches

but, this unfortunate fact to one side, people's reasons for voting out also point the way to what'd be a 'fair' resolution of all this mess.

i suppose i've always thought that the norway model coupled with a serious clampdown on non-EU migration [why not? it's where over half of our immigration comes from and, it's nothing personal against the migrants themselves, they just don't come with membership of the world's biggest and best trading bloc attached], together with a really serious kick in the teeth regarding the lies of the campaign, ought to be more than enough to satisfy all parties. yes we'd still be subject to the ECJ etc but so what, on quite a bit of lawmaking we'd be getting 'freedom' and the offer on non-EU migration ought to be more than enough to satisfy the bigoted branch of the 52%.

but it's not even nearly on the cards.

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Quiffy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:33 pm

jackos wrote:Second referendum and UK staying in the EU after this sounds like a nightmare to me. We'd have another 20 years of bitching from exitors, growth of new right wing independence party, which all risks infecting the rest of the EU with the same bullshit. Would be a lot better to end it. Norway type agreement would be ideal if it can be done. But expensive so not what voters were promised

it'd be like squeezing a spot, there's a growing right wing element in this country and the idea of not taking them on is far worse in the long term as far as i'm concerned. get the fuckers out in the open and take them on.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby eric olthwaite » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:41 pm

In practical terms, I’m not entirely sure what you mean by a reduction in non-EU migration. It’s not like we’ve a fucking open door policy right now, so what are the options?

- 100% rejection of asylum claims?
- zero acceptance of foreigners married to Brits?
- pop over to Calais, shoot the darkies before they try to get on a boat / truck?
- zero acceptance of foreign students, thereby killing off all our universities?
- zero acceptance of employee transfers from the Americas / Asia / Australasia? I’d imagine that would sell really well internationally.

I’m a little unconvinced.

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eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby eric olthwaite » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:44 pm

Quiffy wrote:
jackos wrote:Second referendum and UK staying in the EU after this sounds like a nightmare to me. We'd have another 20 years of bitching from exitors, growth of new right wing independence party, which all risks infecting the rest of the EU with the same bullshit. Would be a lot better to end it. Norway type agreement would be ideal if it can be done. But expensive so not what voters were promised

it'd be like squeezing a spot, there's a growing right wing element in this country and the idea of not taking them on is far worse in the long term as far as i'm concerned. get the fuckers out in the open and take them on.
.

I agree with this. It’s really not as if a No Deal Brexit will quiet the fuckers down; it’ll embolden them. Pastor Niemoller and all that.

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Quiffy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:59 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:I agree with this. It’s really not as if a No Deal Brexit will quiet the fuckers down; it’ll embolden them. Pastor Niemoller and all that.

"First they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Communist," i know the rest :D

thanks to google copy and search
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby eric olthwaite » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:05 pm

Norwegians? They don’t hold back.


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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Quiffy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:15 pm

this brexit thing struck me as being familiar this morning - it's like an inverse episode of 'a place in the sun', that daytime tv show where people think they might want to relocate to australia, where the grass in greener.

trouble is that program examines the costs and benefits of that decision, they waste at least half an hour on this before encouraging the family to make a final decision. they allow the families to see what life would be like in this other country, give them a sample because it's a pretty important decision.

what fools wasting valuable time making these comparisons and adding up the numbers, as if financial revenues might affect lifestyle and whether or not it's a good idea. that program's far too long.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby jackos » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:15 pm

Blackwhite wrote:US has been calling for years, increasingly so, but as discussed, naaah, ta.
.


Suppose your part of the world is relatively untouched by the worst of it anyway, just to Netflix and Leeds United and you might not even know it's happening :)

Know you mean though. We accept their shit we might as well shoot ourselves in the temple and have done with it.

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Devi
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:15 pm
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Devi » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:17 pm

The key phrase re Norway is ‘if it can be done’

It’ll not please the ERG lot (certainly) and many other leavers (probably) given free movement and ‘worse’, having to follow EU directives.
There’s little chance Norway et al will let us join their club, so it’d be a UK only deal - that would look attractive to other EU27 countries thinking of leaving (so the EU likely won’t grant it)
All it really ‘solves’ is fishing, which is a bollocks issue anyway: the UK fleet is already in the control of a mere 4 trawler companies, with a vast number of ghost ships fucking up quotas left right and centre.

So yes. If.

And even if, not really worth the hassle, I’d suggest?
I like it. What is it?

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby jackos » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:19 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:Norwegians? They don’t hold back.


If only it didn't mean "Battle" in Dutch, Norwegian and Swedish ..

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Ponte
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Between a rock and a hard place.

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Ponte » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:24 pm

jackos wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:Norwegians? They don’t hold back.


If only it didn't mean "Battle" in Dutch, Norwegian and Swedish ..

Don’t spoil it, Jackos.
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Hmmm.

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby jackos » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:28 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:In practical terms, I’m not entirely sure what you mean by a reduction in non-EU migration. It’s not like we’ve a fucking open door policy right now, so what are the options?

- 100% rejection of asylum claims?
- zero acceptance of foreigners married to Brits?
- pop over to Calais, shoot the darkies before they try to get on a boat / truck?
- zero acceptance of foreign students, thereby killing off all our universities?
- zero acceptance of employee transfers from the Americas / Asia / Australasia? I’d imagine that would sell really well internationally.

I’m a little unconvinced.


You'll struggle with immigration anyway if that's the end goal. UK needs immigrants end of. We don't need to duscuss the "why's" I'm sure everyone on TSB knows already. Leave the EU and the first thing India/China will demand when you negotiate a trade deal is visas for their experts. The EU needs to sort out immigration anyway given the tone of the debate in Europe and the lack of any solidarity between member states. Might as well stick with us while we sort things out. Migration from former Eastern Bloc countries will slowly sort itself out as their economies grow.

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
Location: Arse end of nowhere

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Blackwhite » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:39 pm

jackos wrote:
Suppose your part of the world is relatively untouched by the worst of it anyway, just to Netflix and Leeds United and you might not even know it's happening :)

To an extent you're absolutely right, on the comfortable southerners it hasn't bitten yet, not at all really. Though we have plenty of desperately poor folks dependent on food banks and non-state charity support, thanks for that oh so big society Mr Cameron. London child poverty rates for example utterly shameful.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby eric olthwaite » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:26 pm

Oh, really? Here we fucking go again. It seems inconceivable that this could lead to an outcome where there will be a parliamentary majority for any Brexit alternative. Well, not unless May makes her deal a manifesto promise, I suppose. Even then a) can they gain the 10+ seats? b) will the ERG shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down?

At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date.

In addition, a further two associations reported that speakers had suggested moving fundraising events to accommodate a possible contest.

One minister, who holds a marginal seat in the south, has already designed and written their election address, as has another with a safe seat in the south east; one north-east association has likewise been instructed to provide election material. All have been asked to expedite re-adoption procedures. (Under Tory party rules, sitting MPs face a vote of their local executive if they wish to continue on as the party's candidate.)


One association chair was told that the only way to break the deadlock was an election, while another has been informed that, even should the withdrawal agreement pass, it will not be done so in a way that retains the support of the DUP, without which the Conservative Party cannot continue to govern.

Although in theory the Fixed Term Parliaments Act takes the timing of an election out of the Prime Minister’s hands, in practice, should Theresa May request one it would be forthcoming as the opposition is bound to vote for it.

Philip_52
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:37 pm

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Philip_52 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:58 pm

Well, according to the statistics young British citizens either moving to Europe or leading their investments to the countries considered as ''safe haven''s: for example Germany is 'a safe haven' in today's market. No one wants to get damaged by this Brexit uncertainity so Brexit will harm our country either with a plan or without a plan. I think it's all meaningless to discuss it.

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eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
Location: Over there, behind that bush

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby eric olthwaite » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:22 pm

Philip_52 wrote:I think it's all meaningless to discuss it.


A nihilist bot - marvellous!

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
Location: Arse end of nowhere

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Blackwhite » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:00 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:
Philip_52 wrote:I think it's all meaningless to discuss it.


A nihilist bot - marvellous!

Image
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

Phatphil65
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:46 pm

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Phatphil65 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:15 pm

Philip_52 wrote:Well, according to the statistics young British citizens either moving to Europe or leading their investments to the countries considered as ''safe haven''s such as Germany. No one wants to get damaged by this Brexit uncertainity so Brexit will harm our country either with a plan or without a plan. I think it's all meaningless to discuss it.


How is your new Land Rover btw?


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