Brexshit Blunderland

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Vampire
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:19 am

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Vampire » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:52 pm

There’s obviously more villains than heroes in this Brexit debacle, especially among the leaderships of the Conservative and Labour Parties, so it’s nice to read there are some in the UK Parliament competently seeking to put the national interest above ideological or political interests.

Conservative MP Nick Boles risking deselection over his bill to rule out no deal

"This bill is about creating the space for a compromise by ruling out a no-deal Brexit," he told the BBC.
To pass his new bill, Mr Boles will need to suspend the rules in Parliament so that he does not need government support to free up parliamentary time for it.
He could do this by amending the government's business motion which sets out the schedule ahead of the Commons debate on 29 January.
He told the Political Thinking podcast: "We have had indications that many ministers, including cabinet ministers are very, very keen to see it pass and are telling the prime minister that they will not vote against it.
"There is a bandwagon rolling, it's got a lot of momentum behind it and I very much hope that any MP who shares my view that a no-deal Brexit would be a disaster, will jump on board.
"I have been told directly by ministers, not in the cabinet, that they have said that they would resign if they are whipped to vote against it."
While he did not know if any cabinet ministers would quit, he said the transcript reported in the Daily Telegraph of a conversation in which Philip Hammond "made quite plain that he thought this was fantastic".
What about the threat of de-selection?
Mr Boles said he would not change his view on Brexit to please a small number of Conservative members in Grantham and Stamford.
"One hundred people in my local party have written in saying they're outraged by what I'm saying and want to de-select me," he told the podcast.
"And the truth is that many of them used to belong to UKIP only about a year ago.
"They're entirely entitled to their view, they're entitled to be members of the Conservative Party and they're entitled to de-select me.
"But I am not going to change what I believe is in the interest of the 80,000 people that I represent in Parliament because of 100 people in my constituency party."


And worth also mentioning: Speaker Bercow could be the first speaker not to get a peerage for standing up to Ministers in allowing Parliament a meaningful vote

A reminder that, amidst all the gloom, there will be honourable MPs on both sides seeking to do the right thing. If the incompetent May won’t pursue a genuine compromise, and the cynically Eurosceptic Corbyn won’t support majority opinion in his own Party for a Peoples’ Vote (which with other Opposition Parties and dissident Tories probably has the numbers to pass if the only alternative is no deal), then the numbers should also exist for moderates on both sides to put together a cross party compromise. But the clock is ticking - hence the importance of the Boles bill.
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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Devi
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Devi » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:36 am

Doesn’t time fly

Only two weeks since Christmas and now it’s the end of May
I like it. What is it?

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jackos
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby jackos » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:26 am

Devi wrote:Doesn’t time fly


Talking of time flying. The former head of YouGov in the UK was just on Sky. He explained that today is the day the UK electorate becomes remain. In the referendum older people voted 2-1 leave, younger people voted 7-1 remain. Each year 600k people die in the UK and 700k people become eligible to vote. So if the UK held a new referendum and no-one changed their vote, remain would still win. Leave loses ~1500 votes a day. (I can't remember the exact number).

That's actually really sad.

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Vampire
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:19 am

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Vampire » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:36 am

jackos wrote:
Devi wrote:Doesn’t time fly


Talking of time flying. The former head of YouGov in the UK was just on Sky. He explained that today is the day the UK electorate becomes remain. In the referendum older people voted 2-1 leave, younger people voted 7-1 remain. Each year 600k people die in the UK and 700k people become eligible to vote. So if the UK held a new referendum and no-one changed their vote, remain would still win. Leave loses ~1500 votes a day. (I can't remember the exact number).

That's actually really sad.


Do keep up, Jackos:

Vampire wrote:I see the latest YouGov poll now has Remain leading leave by 10 percentage points (55% to 45%). The momentum seems to be with the Peoples Vote Campaign.

And here’s an interesting analysis of the impact of disproportional generational voting on the democratic mandate to leave.

Taking account of polling data about older voters, and recent surveys of the views of new voters, and allowing for the fact that older electors are more likely to vote than younger electors, we find that:

n 320,000 Leave voters and 160,000 Remain voters die each year,

n 395,000 Remain voters and 60,000 Leave voters reach voting age each year.

Combining these two sets of figures, and demography alone is shrinking the Leave majority by almost 500,000 a year, or 1,350 a day. As the overall Leave majority in the referendum was 1,269,501, the effect is to cause the Leave majority to disappear on January 19, ten weeks before the scheduled Brexit day.

That calculation is an estimate, subject to a margin of error. But the direction, and broad dimensions, of demographic change are clear. By March 29, around 1.6 million people will have died and almost two million youngsters will have gained the right to vote. Even without a single voter of two years ago changing their minds, Brexit will cease to be the desire of a majority of living voters in the early weeks of next year.
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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jackos
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby jackos » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:43 am

Vampire wrote:Do keep up, Jackos:


:thumbl: Sorry. Been busy with work and Spygate so not kept up with the other threads :D

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Blackwhite
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:21 am

Finally, a shift: Labour calls for a Commons vote on a second referendum. It'll most likely fail, but it moves the tracks.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Vampire
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Vampire » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:43 pm

Blackwhite wrote:Finally, a shift: Labour calls for a Commons vote on a second referendum. It'll most likely fail, but it moves the tracks.


Hardly a shift - but very touching to see you still giving your Dear Leader a free pass!

If you read your own link:


The carefully worded compromise amendment did not commit the party’s leadership to backing a referendum if such a vote were to take place.....

The intervention came as the party’s leadership seeks to deal with divisions between Jeremy Corbyn and some of the leader’s closest allies who are sceptical about a second referendum and those who are more enthusiastic such as Brexit spokesman Sir Keir Starmer.


Also Corbyn is still spruiking his alternative Brexit plan - all the benefits of the customs union and single market without being part of the EU or bound by EU rules - something the E.U. would never agree to and therefore as big a fantasy as anything proposed by Leave in the referendum.

I notice in your link supporters of a second referendum rightly criticise Corbyn for peddling this fantasy:

Second referendum campaigners were last night gearing up to criticise (Corbyn’s) alternative Brexit plan. The People’s Vote campaign said that it was one of a series of Brexit promises – like no-deal – that were being made with “little regard for what could actually be delivered”.

The cross-party group, supported by dozens of Labour MPs, posed five questions that it believes Corbyn’s Brexit model struggles to answer, escalating tensions between campaigners and the party’s leadership.

A 16-page evaluation placed Labour’s plan on a par with both the no-deal option supported by hard Brexit Tories and the Norway-plus customs union alternative, in that they were no better than pledges made by the leave campaign at the time of the EU referendum.

“All three alternative plans,” the analysis added “share many similarities with the arguments made for Brexit in 2016 when big promises were made with little regard for what could actually be delivered.”
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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kennyb41
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby kennyb41 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:21 am

Mr Harte just for you.

I'm in my bed as per last photo waiting this morning for our latest tip to release it's trading update and what a beauty it is,now after Christmas our stockbroker friend told us buy orders were flooding in for little old Eagle Eye (ticker : EYE),he didn't know why but then sussed that this trading update was due around the 25th of Jan.....We subsequently jumped on board because all the 'buy signals' were there,and what a price we got &1.02p..........yesterday we sold @ &1.77p.............you can imagine the profit it's quite easy.

Now this morning at 7am the RNS trading update duly arrived and what a little beauty it is...Revenues up 26%...Air up to 7.6m...A 5m banking facility and net debt down to 0.4m which is wildly beyond expectation.

So why sell you might ask?..........Well,we thought the same...........It's because we were already in massive profit,and why chance a bad statement being released,plus this rise suggests that like us people got wind of it and ploughed in so today could be a down day which we don't have to worry our little selves over.........We'll be watching with a keen eye,obviously from the comfort of our beds.

To those of you that pm'd for future tips,i'll try and pm back any,but this is an easy tip watch the action today,expect a fall,ignore the update until the huge rise has corrected itself,then bail back in big time,for those of you asking where to open account,the best online brokers are Hargreaves Lansdown,you can get cheaper online dealing costs but they achieve the best prices when dealing.

Mr Harte and that other guy (can't remember) that suggested I should be trading stocks instead of poker gambling,make sure you both enjoy your day today,mine will most likely be spent looking for flights to Bangkok for around the 12th Feb,walking the mutt and going for a swim................Not forgetting my daily wank as per American Beauty,lol.Fcking stupid thick cunt that I am......................We need Cassila in like yesterday.... along with Shack,Izzy,Ayling to centre half (perhaps Halme but i wasn't privy to under 23's game)...the team needs a swift shaking up ala Derby and we can't carry Harrison much longer........ps...our luck is starting to change.

https://uk.advfn.com/stock-market/londo ... e/79099867
Just coz you're paranoid doesn't mean people aren't after you....Show me a good loser and i'll show you a fcking loser...I owe I owe it's off to work I go.

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Phil LUFC
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Phil LUFC » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:39 am


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Blackwhite
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Blackwhite » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:52 am

I've been telling people this for weeks, but never seen it sufficiently discussed in the press and certainly not with the use of the correct scientific term, "twattery".

Brexit is cancelled. Discuss.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Vampire
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:19 am

Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Vampire » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:20 am

Blackwhite wrote:I've been telling people this for weeks, but never seen it sufficiently discussed in the press and certainly not with the use of the correct scientific term, "twattery".

Brexit is cancelled. Discuss.


What do you mean you’ve been “telling people this for weeks?”

Quite apart from the delusional arrogance that you can “tell” anyone anything significant about UK politics, it was only weeks ago you were “telling” us no deal needed a parliamentary majority without realising it is the default option if there isn’t a majority for anything else (deferral, May’s deal, 2nd referendum, or whatever) - regardless of whatever other bills the UK Parliament might want to pass beforehand.

Your ignorance is as breathtaking as your hubris.

:lol:
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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kennyb41
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby kennyb41 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:08 am

The BBC is currently/recently softening us up for a 'peoples vote'...........We can now expect one after March 29th is cancelled which it will be in due course.

She's no Marina Hyde but a good read,

"So here we are. A deadline we cannot meet, an argument neither side can win, and an entire nation that can't admit this was all a lot more complicated than we realised"

We as a nation are getting a helluva lot more facts than the lies the first time around,this will be the impetus for the second vote and i for one would vote to remain,there is too much upheaval to be had by leaving,and that the EU can and would thrust upon us.
Just coz you're paranoid doesn't mean people aren't after you....Show me a good loser and i'll show you a fcking loser...I owe I owe it's off to work I go.

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Blackwhite
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Blackwhite » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:13 am

Hyde.

Rees-Mogg believes Britain could surf the wave of no deal. He’s really very like Patrick Swayze in Point Break in that respect – except with an opera coat, no charisma and zero personal exposure to the 50-year storm. Yet people continue to misread him as dependably as his father used to misread the future. At Wednesday’s event, the economist Roger Bootle introduced him as “a modest man … too modest, almost, for his own good”. To which the only sane reply is: lololololololol. If you had to distil into one personage the British people’s gibbering historical deference to terrible ideas advanced by low-to-middlebrow post-feudal shitlords who openly detest them, this plastic aristocrat would be it. Rees-Mogg is the logical end of whole centuries of barking up the wrong tree. In the most recent leadership polls of Tory members, obviously, he trailed only Boris Johnson.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Vampire
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Vampire » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:54 am

Interesting article on the mindset of the pro Remain Corbynites. May be relevant to our own resident in denial pro Remain Corbynites?

Corbyn often gets credit for the vagueness of Labour’s Brexit position at the 2017 snap election. But it was, at best, an accidental strategy. Corbyn, like Boris, wanted to have his cake and eat it too, both supporting Brexit and criticising the right-wing Brexit project.

Most Corbyn supporters are dedicated remainers. Some on the younger, more liberal Corbynite wing now begrudgingly advocate some form of soft Brexit, such as Norway-plus. It is an arrangement the EU (and indeed Norway) opposes, and which May cannot possibly accept. Substantively, it is a rather absurd suggestion, which would involve precisely none of the control Labour leavers hope to gain by leaving the EU, nor the continental influence which the “remain and reform” Labour mainstream craves.

Its advocates must know this – but it is simply the best they can come up in seeking to square their own commitment to Corbyn, with Corbyn’s own commitment to Brexit. Labour’s next generation of leaders remain too attached to Corbyn, organisationally and emotionally, to yet break ranks in sufficient numbers.

Above all, most Corbynites would like to see a “people’s vote”, and have yet to comprehend why their hero refuses to budge. His amendment to the government’s latest motion appears to throw them a bone, but we should not be fooled. Labour has still not committed to supporting a second referendum, even if the other options fail. Even if the amendment passed – which it will not – it could just as easily be seen as a means by which a second referendum can be ruled out by parliament, once and for all.

As such, although neither the no deal red line, nor the hint at a people’s vote, can be taken at face value, Corbyn’s advocacy of remaining in the customs union should, in contrast, be seen as sincere. But it would be quite wrong to understand Labour’s position as a compromise. It represents exactly what Corbyn has always wanted: it would see the UK leaving the EU, while paradoxically being unable to sign independent trade deals (emblematic of a “neoliberal” policy agenda) with non-EU countries.
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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Mustafaster
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Mustafaster » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:17 pm

Corbyn's position is and always has been Bennite. Corbyn has not had an original thought in his lifetime I'd hazard to guess. His entire programme is a 1970s Bennite clone.
In terms of internal politics its mantra was"no enemies to the left". Hence Momentum.

Its attitude to the EU was that it was a rich man's club.
Benn never really understood Politics. He was a grand speaker and passionate, but a bit dim if the truth be known.
Wilson was a consummate politician who understood the principle of "better inside pissing out". He made him Minister of Putting Things On Top Of Other Things.

When he was briefly a minister he thought he was going to waltz into office and start pulling all the levers and get shit done. He was amazed to find that all those levers weren't actually connected to anything in the real world and that there were opposing forces, that didn't want things on top of other things, and would push back.

Same with the EU, he was again amazed to discover that the EU parliament doesn't initiate legislation. Forgetting that (apart from a tiny number of private member's bills) neither does the UK parliament.

Corbyn's position is still the same. He regards the EU as a rich man's club that will stop him carrying out large scale renationalisation.

He will have more things to worry about than that if he ever makes it into Downing Street and the UK is outwith the EU.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Devi
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Devi » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:24 pm

Mustafaster wrote:Corbyn's position is still the same. He regards the EU as a rich man's club that will stop him carrying out large scale renationalisation.


And yet, it won’t.

There is nothing in EU legislation that precludes renationalisation, indeed some services - eg the railways - are explicitly excluded from anything that might suggest such a ban.

He’s chosen a flawed narrative, and can only be commended for his tenacity in sticking to it.
I like it. What is it?

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Mustafaster
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Mustafaster » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:32 pm

Devi wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:Corbyn's position is still the same. He regards the EU as a rich man's club that will stop him carrying out large scale renationalisation.


And yet, it won’t.

There is nothing in EU legislation that precludes renationalisation, indeed some services - eg the railways - are explicitly excluded from anything that might suggest such a ban.

He’s chosen a flawed narrative, and can only be commended for his tenacity in sticking to it.

You know that, I know that, mini Devi knows that, and three of my four dogs know that.
Corbyn's intelligence is on a par with the one dog that doesn't, because biscuits
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Vampire
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Vampire » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:41 pm

Devi wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:Corbyn's position is still the same. He regards the EU as a rich man's club that will stop him carrying out large scale renationalisation.


And yet, it won’t.

There is nothing in EU legislation that precludes renationalisation, indeed some services - eg the railways - are explicitly excluded from anything that might suggest such a ban.

He’s chosen a flawed narrative, and can only be commended for his tenacity in sticking to it.


You commend him for sticking to a flawed narrative? On that basis you should be highly complimentary to Theresa May!

You’re dead right though that his old fashioned view of E.U. state aid rules overlooks the detail and exemptions - the de minimus rule and the General Block Exemption. It also overlooks other loopholes exploited by other E.U. countries such as France and Germany who spend far more on state aid as a percentage of GDP than the UK.

Most laughable - Corbyn’s alternative (have your cake and eat it) Brexit plan staying in the customs union would mean he’d still be bound by E.U. state aid rules. Detail has never been one of Corbyn’s strengths.

Interesting though that we still hear nothing about his position on this thread from pro Remain Corbynites - despite their voluminous and repetitive attacks on Tory Brexiteers!
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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Mustafaster
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby Mustafaster » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:50 pm

Vampire wrote:
You commend him for sticking to a flawed narrative? On that basis you should be highly complimentary to Theresa May!

You’re dead right though that his old fashioned view of E.U. state aid rules overlooks the detail and exemptions - the de minimus rule and the General Block Exemption. It also overlooks other loopholes exploited by other E.U. countries such as France and Germany who spend far more on state aid as a percentage of GDP than the UK.

Most laughable - Corbyn’s alternative (have your cake and eat it) Brexit plan staying in the customs union would mean he’d still be bound by E.U. state aid rules. Detail has never been one of Corbyn’s strengths.

Interesting though that we still hear nothing about his position on this thread from pro Remain Corbynites - despite their voluminous and repetitive attacks on Tory Brexiteers!

Can you actually read?
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Brexshit Blunderland

Postby eric olthwaite » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:06 pm

There aren’t any Corbynites on here. This isn’t a religious cult - well, it can be but I don’t see any of its members on here. There are people who back a number of his redistributive policies (and therefore him by default, in certain circumstances) as a position distinct from the positions of the Progress side of Labour.


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