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Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:44 am
by jackos
Didn't find this thread this morning so moving my post here ...this mornings reports of 30 degree temperatures in Siberia and predictions that 2020 will be the warmest year on record are a tad worrying .....




Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:46 am
by jackos
Thanks Eric

eric olthwaite wrote:
jackos wrote:Don't think we have a dedicated thread for Global warming yet


Sort of

Another fun one

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:50 am
by Wakefield White
The dairy one is interesting, if we all gave up cows milk in favor of plant based milk would it benefit the environment or have unintended consequences like with biofuels?

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:52 am
by Wakefield White
jackos wrote:Didn't find this thread this morning so moving my post here ...this mornings reports of 30 degree temperatures in Siberia and predictions that 2020 will be the warmest year on record are a tad worrying .....





I recall reading that the a large proportion of the planets methane is locked in the Siberian permafrost, so yes worrying is the word.

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:55 am
by jackos
Wakefield White wrote:I recall reading that the a large proportion of the planets methane is locked in the Siberian permafrost, so yes worrying is the word.


Not just Methane ...

BBC: Long-dormant bacteria and viruses, trapped in ice and permafrost for centuries, are reviving as Earth's climate warms

30,000-Year-Old Virus Found in Siberian Permafrost

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:04 am
by Wakefield White
jackos wrote:
Wakefield White wrote:I recall reading that the a large proportion of the planets methane is locked in the Siberian permafrost, so yes worrying is the word.


Not just Methane ...

BBC: Long-dormant bacteria and viruses, trapped in ice and permafrost for centuries, are reviving as Earth's climate warms

30,000-Year-Old Virus Found in Siberian Permafrost


Cosmic

Maybe Godzilla or Jason from Halloween are down there too.

In all seriousness, I went through a period in my late twenties where I’d devour all the available news on climate change and potential consequences. I found that the combination of existential threat and my own personal impotence to do anything about it weren’t good for my mental health.

I tend to stay clear of most stuff now and satisfy myself with doing my part (such that it is and accepting a degree of hypocrisy).

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:05 am
by eric olthwaite
Wakefield White wrote:The dairy one is interesting, if we all gave up cows milk in favor of plant based milk would it benefit the environment or have unintended consequences like with biofuels?


As I understand it, oat’s the business because it’s the most climate tolerant and low water consuming crop. I think that it you look at the land for cows and the land you need to grow agricultural feed, it vastly exceeds what you’d need to grow ‘milk’ crops.

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:12 am
by Blackwhite
eric olthwaite wrote:
Wakefield White wrote:The dairy one is interesting, if we all gave up cows milk in favor of plant based milk would it benefit the environment or have unintended consequences like with biofuels?


As I understand it, oat’s the business because it’s the most climate tolerant and low water consuming crop. I think that it you look at the land for cows and the land you need to grow agricultural feed, it vastly exceeds what you’d need to grow ‘milk’ crops.

And almond milk (I didn't know they had tits etc, yawn) is a fucking ecological disaster from a water perspective, as are almonds themselves.

And obviously they're all shit, so fuck the planet?
Show me oat cheese and we can talk. Stick a g on it at least...

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:15 am
by rss1969
jackos wrote:
Wakefield White wrote:I recall reading that the a large proportion of the planets methane is locked in the Siberian permafrost, so yes worrying is the word.


Not just Methane ...

BBC: Long-dormant bacteria and viruses, trapped in ice and permafrost for centuries, are reviving as Earth's climate warms

30,000-Year-Old Virus Found in Siberian Permafrost


Great, so we will have Covid19-BC to contend with soon

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:38 am
by jackos
Blackwhite wrote:And almond milk (I didn't know they had tits etc, yawn) is a fucking ecological disaster from a water perspective, as are almonds themselves.


Was going to post that I agree about almonds, so I googled an article I read about almond cultivation a few years ago, and instead I found this study that compares water consumption to nutritional value.

Water-indexed benefits and impacts of California almonds


That implies it might not be as simple as I thought, (haven't had time to read the study properly yet), but I read enough to learn that water can now be referred to as Green, Blue and Grey .. At least in California ...

Green Water Footprint refers to the rainwater and soil moisture consumed by plants and crops in their cultivation.

Blue Water Footprint refers to irrigation from surface water and groundwater that is consumed (i.e. evaporated or incorporated into a crop) during cultivation.

Grey Water Footprint refers to the freshwater required to dilute pollution (e.g., farm runoff) and bring the water resource up to safe water quality standards.


It seems almond producers are fighting back, of course we believe they care about the population of California and it's water supply ... https://www.almonds.com/almond-industry/2025-goals

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:53 am
by jackos
Wakefield White wrote:I tend to stay clear of most stuff now and satisfy myself with doing my part (such that it is and accepting a degree of hypocrisy).


All you can do Wakefield. I turned vegan back in the 80ies, vegan, 18 and living in a squat by Woodhouse Moor. The only place that sold Vegan products was Beano's in the city centre, another small place up by Hyde Park corner and our own co-op that we'd set up in a wardrobe in one of "our" squats. Being a solid vegan I started reading and cut out more and more types of food, soy was one of the first things to go due it it's environmental impact, by they time I was 19 I'd realised that the only things I could eat [if I really cared] was potatoes I'd grown in my own back garden and fertilised myself [Burnley], so I gave up trying to be perfect. Stuck at veganism for another 15 years after that, but realised a long time ago that perfection isn't possible, you'll always find some problem with anything you eat or do.

All anyone can do is their best. I'm still a vegetarian, but I think buying locally produced meat for a farm I know and trust is probably preferable to buying veggie's that have been imported from the other side of the planet.

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:08 pm
by Ponte
Blackwhite wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:
Wakefield White wrote:The dairy one is interesting, if we all gave up cows milk in favor of plant based milk would it benefit the environment or have unintended consequences like with biofuels?


As I understand it, oat’s the business because it’s the most climate tolerant and low water consuming crop. I think that it you look at the land for cows and the land you need to grow agricultural feed, it vastly exceeds what you’d need to grow ‘milk’ crops.

And almond milk (I didn't know they had tits etc, yawn) is a fucking ecological disaster from a water perspective, as are almonds themselves.

And obviously they're all shit, so fuck the planet?
Show me oat cheese and we can talk. Stick a g on it at least...


Oatly Barista milk is fucking lovely in coffee.

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:10 pm
by eric olthwaite
I think we've discussed this elsewhere, but I started from the point of knowing that in the UK we eat something like 85kg of meat per person per year - less than Australia and the US but more than most. In most of the third world they're at 15kg or so. I think if everyone could target about a 1kg per month (so one portion a week), that would be close to globally sustainable.

As it goes I've ended up (for the time being) with:
- No meat, other than seafood and very occasionally fish
- No dairy milk or butter
- Will use vegan cheese in some cooking when it works, but mostly stick to normal cheese
- Wherever knowingly possible, avoid food that's been on a plane

Also as discussed before, the idea of what 'taste' is, is far from immutable; it's just what you've grown used to. Oat milk now tastes 'normal' to me, and dairy milk a bit weird. Same with butter and alternatives.

The good thing is that the range of decent vegan ingredients continues to expand pretty much day on day. Maybe a third of the meals we eat are 'fully' vegan.

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:35 pm
by welshwhite
What I like most about us fellow Earth savers is our reluctance to mention it. I will just this once though:

I now recycle all household waste, I also deem travelling for holidays and to a football match as non-essential. Threw my passport in the bin years ago.

Not used my car for anything at all for over six years, it's rotting in the garage, not missed it at all.
Riding up to Leeds for the football on my old Raleigh Chopper has also improved my health :thumbl:

Every little helps.

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:58 pm
by Mustafaster
welshwhite wrote:What I like most about us fellow Earth savers is our reluctance to mention it. I will just this once though:

I now recycle all household waste, I also deem travelling for holidays and to a football match as non-essential. Threw my passport in the bin years ago.

Not used my car for anything at all for over six years, it's rotting in the garage, not missed it at all.
Riding up to Leeds for the football on my old Raleigh Chopper has also improved my health :thumbl:

Every little helps.

Good lad.
Here at Casa Musta we stopped eating altogether three years ago and drink only water drawn from a well in the garden.

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:27 pm
by Ontolly
welshwhite wrote:What I like most about us fellow Earth savers is our reluctance to mention it. I will just this once though:

I now recycle all household waste, I also deem travelling for holidays and to a football match as non-essential. Threw my passport in the bin years ago.

Not used my car for anything at all for over six years, it's rotting in the garage, not missed it at all.
Riding up to Leeds for the football on my old Raleigh Chopper has also improved my health :thumbl:

Every little helps.

How you can be so in love with nature after what nature has done to you is, unlike the new Leeds kit, admiral :thumbl:

Apologies to Joan Rivers

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:29 pm
by Wakefield White
jackos wrote:
Wakefield White wrote:I tend to stay clear of most stuff now and satisfy myself with doing my part (such that it is and accepting a degree of hypocrisy).

All anyone can do is their best. I'm still a vegetarian, but I think buying locally produced meat for a farm I know and trust is probably preferable to buying veggie's that have been imported from the other side of the planet.


Yeah, agree. We eat relatively little meat and our diet is mainly plant based, can’t say this has been a strong choice it just sort of happened. I can’t say that I spend time in the supermarket analysing the origin of produce, it we try to use the local organic food co-op (ooh get her) when we can.

Other things I’ve done / struggle with
- I got a job in nuclear power as I thought that was more useful than designing buildings for rich people, but that has gone to shit in the last couple of years.
- Ive actively tried to be less of a consumer, make clothes and stuff last longer. It’s made me realise how much shit we buy and how indoctrinated I am in to the newer, shinier consumer mindset.
- transport - I really struggle with this, especially holidays. Try to limit air travel, but it’s hard.

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:33 pm
by Blackwhite
In case anyone needs any help going veggie.
Apologies for The Heil link, and an Australian Heil link as well which invokes like some kind of squared-power cuntishness.

Re: O/T Sustainability and all that shite

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:16 pm
by Blackwhite
45degreesfuckingC. Siberia.