YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Discussion on LUFC and absolutely anything... welcome to the Dark Side
Eddies Boots
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 5:07 am
Location: Arizona

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Eddies Boots » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:13 pm

welshwhite wrote:[
Somethings gotta change, as Johnny Rotten once sang.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Yeboah » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:17 pm

In Salims book he talks about Bielsa....and the how is more important than winning itself. Madness.


Clacton white
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:19 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Clacton white » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:34 pm

welshwhite wrote:
Yeboah wrote:
Hughton still available....


If Hughton would come here and sell Phillips and strengthen our other weak areas with that cash I'd drive him here myself.

We've a couple of players here already that could do an adequate job in Phillips role.
We've no fucker capable of sticking the ball in the net though.
Somethings gotta change, as Johnny Rotten once sang.

Something better change was The Stranglers .

User avatar
Vampire
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:19 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Vampire » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:19 am

Clacton white wrote:
welshwhite wrote:
If Hughton would come here and sell Phillips and strengthen our other weak areas with that cash I'd drive him here myself.

We've a couple of players here already that could do an adequate job in Phillips role.
We've no fucker capable of sticking the ball in the net though.
Somethings gotta change, as Johnny Rotten once sang.

Something better change was The Stranglers .


Good to Straighten Out Rhys on that one, Clacton, even if he was fishing. He’s becoming the new Mr January - needs to get a Grip.
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

User avatar
dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: London

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby dirty leeds » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:00 am

Clacton white wrote:Something better change was The Stranglers .


Sam Cooke, shirley?

User avatar
welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby welshwhite » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:10 am

dirty leeds wrote:
Clacton white wrote:Something better change was The Stranglers .


Sam Cooke, shirley?


Nah, it was Brian Owens.

User avatar
LSD&2Es
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Surrey

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby LSD&2Es » Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:40 am

Quote from MB from a piece in the Irish Times today:

“The moments in my life when I have improved are closely related to failure; the moments in my life when I have regressed are closely related to success. Being successful deforms us as human beings, it relaxes us, it plays tricks on us, it makes us worse individuals, it feeds our egos. Failure is the complete opposite, it forms us, makes us more solid, brings us closer to our convictions, makes us more coherent . . . Never allow failure to affect your self-esteem. When you win, understand that praise and accolades are deceptive for they feed our ego and deform us. When you lose, the opposite happens.”

Also, some descriptions of Pep and City that could just as easily have been about us:

"It’s time for Pep Guardiola to embrace diversity of tactics.
Is he prepared to work on set-piece weaknesses or would it betray his principles?"

"and Tottenham scoring with their first two shots on target after a vastly superior City had missed a dozen or so chances."

Full piece here:
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer ... -1.4159622
The Chief: "trust me, you can't have too many years with a club like Leeds."

User avatar
dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: London

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby dirty leeds » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:14 am

Interesting. Just to be clear, the descriptions of City are by the journalist, not Bielsa. I know you know that, LSD&2Es, having read the feature, but it might not be obvious from just your words above.
I watched the Spurs v City game too and came away feeling it looked like a higher quality version of watching Leeds. You'd expect the players who missed City's chances to score them, though, even if we don't currently expect Bamford to do likewise.

User avatar
Mustafaster
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:02 am
Location: PC Brigade House.

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Mustafaster » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:45 am

dirty leeds wrote:Interesting. Just to be clear, the descriptions of City are by the journalist, not Bielsa. I know you know that, LSD&2Es, haring read the feature, but it might not be obvious from just your words above.
I watched the Spurs v City game too and came away feeling it looked like a higher quality version of watching Leeds. You'd expect the players who missed City's chances to score them, though, even if we don't currently expect Bamford to do likewise.

I saw it, too.
The similarities were uncanny.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

User avatar
the flying pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby the flying pig » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:06 am

the numbers aren't radically different, certainly in terms of shots [off target].

though the differences include:

1) they have one of the world's best keepers 'between the sticks';
2) and one of the world's best finishers up front;
3) they were up against a side who've consistently finished top 4 this past decade or so rather than bottom 3 trash; and
4) they were away rather than at home.


Image

User avatar
Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Phil LUFC » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:15 am

the flying pig wrote:the numbers aren't radically different, certainly in terms of shots [off target].

though the differences include:

1) they have one of the world's best keepers 'between the sticks';
2) and one of the world's best finishers up front; and
3) they were up against a side who've consistently finished top 4 this past decade or so.

Image

As a one off point 3 is valid but City have lost a number of games this season they really shouldn't have, including against Norwich.

The underlying root cause is pretty simple really: This way of playing is visually stunning and when its executed as it can be it's unplayable BUT it's simply too complex to be consistently executed to that level, by any team. City, Spain and Barca have all had periods where they've struggled to make it work (and I accept tactical differences between these teams, and us, but the general principles are the same).

User avatar
the flying pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby the flying pig » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:43 am

Phil LUFC wrote:...The underlying root cause is pretty simple really: This way of playing is visually stunning and when its executed as it can be it's unplayable BUT it's simply too complex to be consistently executed to that level, by any team. City, Spain and Barca have all had periods where they've struggled to make it work (and I accept tactical differences between these teams, and us, but the general principles are the same).


well - no playing style can make a team invulnerable, the best [or worst] it can do is help a team punch above [or below] its weight in terms of playing resource. i'm fairly sure that our style does that, as did spain's [has any other european national side ever come close to three consecutive tournament wins?]. it's hard to judge the 'weight' of citeh or barca due to the ludicrous playing resources available to them, but they both seem to have done pretty well with this playing style? of pep's three clubs, bayern are the one where i'd argue that he did nothing, since their PPG slumped a little after he took over. citeh are doing alright this season, have been unfortunate to come up against liverpool in exceptional form, with consistent world class output at GK, CB, RB/LB, and across the front three.

User avatar
the flying pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby the flying pig » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:54 am

VVD's role at liverpool is interesting, since they've signed him the thing that they're supposedly famous for [pressing] has definitely gone down a half notch or so, a couple of halfway sensible liverpool fans i know have independently told me this, but what he brings to them, especially [but not only] in the air, is just so ridiculously valuable that it much more than compensates.

User avatar
Bobbycollins
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:52 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Bobbycollins » Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:14 am

Apart from overall quality, the big difference between us and Man City is goals scored, with City having scored 65 in 25 games as compared with our 46 from 30. I really don't believe that similarities in style of play, albeit at different levels, mean that City and Leeds are doomed to eventual failure due to over-complexity. Conceding goals from corners would be a mild irritant if we were scoring 2.5 goals per game rather than 1.5.

User avatar
Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Phil LUFC » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:09 pm

the flying pig wrote:
Phil LUFC wrote:...The underlying root cause is pretty simple really: This way of playing is visually stunning and when its executed as it can be it's unplayable BUT it's simply too complex to be consistently executed to that level, by any team. City, Spain and Barca have all had periods where they've struggled to make it work (and I accept tactical differences between these teams, and us, but the general principles are the same).


well - no playing style can make a team invulnerable, the best [or worst] it can do is help a team punch above [or below] its weight in terms of playing resource. i'm fairly sure that our style does that, as did spain's [has any other european national side ever come close to three consecutive tournament wins?]. it's hard to judge the 'weight' of citeh or barca due to the ludicrous playing resources available to them, but they both seem to have done pretty well with this playing style? of pep's three clubs, bayern are the one where i'd argue that he did nothing, since their PPG slumped a little after he took over. citeh are doing alright this season, have been unfortunate to come up against liverpool in exceptional form, with consistent world class output at GK, CB, RB/LB, and across the front three.

Perhaps I didn't phrase it very well but agree its an over-simplification. So allow me to double down on that...

If we were to consider football playing styles to be considered as linear progression we might have percentage football towards one end, tiki-taka towards the other, varying degrees obviously, the absolute extremes being "put it in the mixer" and "keep possession for the sake of it rather than with intent to do anything useful". The same scale IMO broadly lines up with difficulty (it's a piece of piss for a footballer to punt it aimlessly long, not so easy to make such a tactic effective though. I suppose its equally easy to pass a ball 5 yards unmarked but we're kind of talking 1 long punt vs about 5 short passes so there's more chance of error in the 5 passes).

As with any such linear scale, the real success has some sort of balanced position or ability to mix it up.

I see this Liverpool side as being fucking good at what they do but I don't see anything pushing the boundaries of how the game is played - they're playing with the sort of intensity and style we saw from DOL's side 20 years ago.

I see a typical Warnock side as being able to shit house their way to some reasonable achievements through playing the percentages with a set of 7/10 physical units doing the basics well week in week out.

I see us, Guardiola sides, Spain a decade ago.... putting forward an alternate way to play, something which changes the wider perception of how the game should be played. It's no longer fresh, combating it is now possible and there's not just 1 solution to achieve it. I see this style as more likely to result in self inflicted problems than a Warnock approach. City have self inflicted wounds which have taken them out of the title race, we beat ourselves last season and are threatening to this - for both us, a change in direction would be suicide, the squads are built and drilled for this approach.

Clacton white
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:19 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Clacton white » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:52 pm

Bobbycollins wrote:Apart from overall quality, the big difference between us and Man City is goals scored, with City having scored 65 in 25 games as compared with our 46 from 30. I really don't believe that similarities in style of play, albeit at different levels, mean that City and Leeds are doomed to eventual failure due to over-complexity. Conceding goals from corners would be a mild irritant if we were scoring 2.5 goals per game rather than 1.5.

Man City have been at this style of play for about 4 seasons now maybe ? This is Leeds second , plus Bielsa is working with far inferior players .....but the stats are very similar and City are prone to a loss now and again , Big stumbling block last season and this is the forward line .... all very well the pretty football BUT there is often no product at the end , it must dishearten the team when they do all this work only to see Bamford take aim at the corner flag . Maybe at the start of the season instead of Nketiah and Clark , who were seldom or if at all used , maybe have gone for a proven scorer at this level in a player that was often mentioned at the time and more recently - Dwight Gayle . Albion's forward line last season in this division was awesome , far and away the best in the division , I think if Leeds had a finisher , even one , of the standard of the two Albion had they would have gone up . Same applies this season , just have to hope Augustin is up to it , as I'm confident Bamford isn't and will cost the club promotion again .

User avatar
dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: London

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby dirty leeds » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:55 pm

Clacton white wrote:
Bobbycollins wrote:Apart from overall quality, the big difference between us and Man City is goals scored, with City having scored 65 in 25 games as compared with our 46 from 30. I really don't believe that similarities in style of play, albeit at different levels, mean that City and Leeds are doomed to eventual failure due to over-complexity. Conceding goals from corners would be a mild irritant if we were scoring 2.5 goals per game rather than 1.5.

Man City have been at this style of play for about 4 seasons now maybe ? This is Leeds second , plus Bielsa is working with far inferior players .....but the stats are very similar and City are prone to a loss now and again , Big stumbling block last season and this is the forward line .... all very well the pretty football BUT there is often no product at the end , it must dishearten the team when they do all this work only to see Bamford take aim at the corner flag . Maybe at the start of the season instead of Nketiah and Clark , who were seldom or if at all used , maybe have gone for a proven scorer at this level in a player that was often mentioned at the time and more recently - Dwight Gayle . Albion's forward line last season in this division was awesome , far and away the best in the division , I think if Leeds had a finisher , even one , of the standard of the two Albion had they would have gone up . Same applies this season , just have to hope Augustin is up to it , as I'm confident Bamford isn't and will cost the club promotion again .


I agree with you Clacton - a better finisher should help us a lot.
However, watching De Bruyne, Sterling and Aguero miss those sitters yesterday had me a mite concerned.
JKA needs to bag an encouraging hat trick for the U23s today, then... :D


Return to “The Square Ball”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Eddies Boots, eric olthwaite, Google [Bot] and 21 guests