thestraw wrote:Yeboah wrote:We celebrate a losers award now?
Has Fat Frank won an award too?
Biggest wanker who isn't Warnock award .
thestraw wrote:Yeboah wrote:We celebrate a losers award now?
Has Fat Frank won an award too?
Vampire wrote:dirty leeds wrote:Or there's this in The Times:
Divine United? Leeds’ fair play award is just a mark of Fifa’s idiocy
rick broadbent
They were good articles, DL, but Fat Frank stills seems unconvinced.
Quite hilarious to see him still banging on about it.
dirty leeds wrote:Vampire wrote:dirty leeds wrote:Or there's this in The Times:
Divine United? Leeds’ fair play award is just a mark of Fifa’s idiocy
rick broadbent
They were good articles, DL, but Fat Frank stills seems unconvinced.
Quite hilarious to see him still banging on about it.
Aye, though tbf I guess he was just asked about it and gave the predictable answer.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Villa equaliser, I wonder if Frank would have done the same at the time? Obviously, after the event, he's going to imply it was nothing special, simply the right thing to do, but I bet at least 50% of managers wouldn't have done what Bielsa did - probably more like 75%.
Phil LUFC wrote:Aye, Bielsa (and Leeds) have definitely got under his skin. He's right in saying it was a dead rubber but other than that... It'd have been him who chose to bring up spygate again, could have just said it was unrelated, over and it's time to move on whilst still saying the same about the villa incident.
“It is very expensive, I invested over £90 million — with this level of money you could own a Europa League club in most of the European leagues, including Italy.
“The club makes losses, in this league it is impossible not to. We are still paying the consequences of my first year because I was inexperienced and we made some expensive mistakes with players.
“But we haven’t stopped investing. Bielsa and his staff cost £6 million [a year], we bought many other players and I think we have a squad to be promoted. It’s financially not sustainable to keep this level of salary which is now over £30 million, probably £33 million with Marcelo and closer to £40 million with the coaches.”
Yeboah wrote:I'm sure we could have paid less than £12m to not get promoted for 2 years.
Phil LUFC wrote:Yeboah wrote:I'm sure we could have paid less than £12m to not get promoted for 2 years.
Yep, no doubt, but it wouldn't have been half as much fun to watch.
If the ultimate end result is we stay down and sell KP for £20m then the whole thing will have cost us -£5m based on your statement that £2.7m would be a good fee for Phillips.
Using your logic/valuation, we could give Bielsa a 3rd season and still just about break even on the experiment.
Yeboah wrote:I sort of get the point, despite the obvious logic flaws
- we haven't sold him yet
- we've given him a big new contract
- how much would he be worth under a different manager?
- losing is fun?
The main inference is that he's worth X due to playing for Bielsa or in a bielsa system where he can receive the ball in 10 yards of space. In a different system or under a different coach is he worth less then?
Clacton white wrote:Yeboah wrote:I sort of get the point, despite the obvious logic flaws
- we haven't sold him yet
- we've given him a big new contract
- how much would he be worth under a different manager?
- losing is fun?
The main inference is that he's worth X due to playing for Bielsa or in a bielsa system where he can receive the ball in 10 yards of space. In a different system or under a different coach is he worth less then?
I think re your third and fourth point here ....firstly , Bielsa found a position Phillips was suited to , where the previous few/couple of managers didn't play him in that manner , so under previous ( and we will never know ) unless they changed tactics then he would probably have been worth around 1-2 million at best - I thought pre last season he was going to follow the Mowatt route . you can only say what you see and that Bielsa has found his ideal place hence increase in value . Cooper - he may well have developed under others , but again under Bielsa he has come on in leaps and bounds - remember the calamity prone defender that he was ?
Losing is never fun , BUT , under the previous few managers it was almost a habit . A lot of the time losing and playing bad football at the same time . No team is going to not lose , every team does at times . Leeds do it far less now ...though they should be doing better admittedly given possession and shots etc . I couldn't see Heck taking Leeds to play offs last season . He might have done this season I admit - but I think it would be League one play offs .
Yeboah wrote:Clacton white wrote:Yeboah wrote:I sort of get the point, despite the obvious logic flaws
- we haven't sold him yet
- we've given him a big new contract
- how much would he be worth under a different manager?
- losing is fun?
The main inference is that he's worth X due to playing for Bielsa or in a bielsa system where he can receive the ball in 10 yards of space. In a different system or under a different coach is he worth less then?
I think re your third and fourth point here ....firstly , Bielsa found a position Phillips was suited to , where the previous few/couple of managers didn't play him in that manner , so under previous ( and we will never know ) unless they changed tactics then he would probably have been worth around 1-2 million at best - I thought pre last season he was going to follow the Mowatt route . you can only say what you see and that Bielsa has found his ideal place hence increase in value . Cooper - he may well have developed under others , but again under Bielsa he has come on in leaps and bounds - remember the calamity prone defender that he was ?
Losing is never fun , BUT , under the previous few managers it was almost a habit . A lot of the time losing and playing bad football at the same time . No team is going to not lose , every team does at times . Leeds do it far less now ...though they should be doing better admittedly given possession and shots etc . I couldn't see Heck taking Leeds to play offs last season . He might have done this season I admit - but I think it would be League one play offs .
Yeah I think that's fair.
I think with point 3 you're making the same point I am. He's worth more due to position/system. Ultimately that will limit his upside.
Cooper is a calamity in the big games still. Play off semi and blades at home.
The frustration with Bielsa is lack of pragmatism....same old same old, with same results
Mr Reality wrote:Value added to the squad needs to be considered when talking about the cost of Bielsa as does increased commercial performance.
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