YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

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Clacton white
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:19 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Clacton white » Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:50 am

thestraw wrote:
Yeboah wrote:We celebrate a losers award now?

Has Fat Frank won an award too?

Biggest wanker who isn't Warnock award .

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: London

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby dirty leeds » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:34 am

Vampire wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:Or there's this in The Times:
Divine United? Leeds’ fair play award is just a mark of Fifa’s idiocy
rick broadbent






They were good articles, DL, but Fat Frank stills seems unconvinced.

Quite hilarious to see him still banging on about it.
:lol:



Aye, though tbf I guess he was just asked about it and gave the predictable answer.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Villa equaliser, I wonder if Frank would have done the same at the time? Obviously, after the event, he's going to imply it was nothing special, simply the right thing to do, but I bet at least 50% of managers wouldn't have done what Bielsa did - probably more like 75%.

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Vampire
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:19 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Vampire » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:49 am

dirty leeds wrote:
Vampire wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:Or there's this in The Times:
Divine United? Leeds’ fair play award is just a mark of Fifa’s idiocy
rick broadbent






They were good articles, DL, but Fat Frank stills seems unconvinced.

Quite hilarious to see him still banging on about it.
:lol:



Aye, though tbf I guess he was just asked about it and gave the predictable answer.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Villa equaliser, I wonder if Frank would have done the same at the time? Obviously, after the event, he's going to imply it was nothing special, simply the right thing to do, but I bet at least 50% of managers wouldn't have done what Bielsa did - probably more like 75%.


Whether he was asked or not, he didn’t have to go on and on at that length about it. You’d think it would be water under the bridge given he’s moved on to bigger and better things. I wonder if that press conference Marcelo gave afterwards publicising his tactics is the real reason his pride is so wounded!
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Phil LUFC » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:57 am

Aye, Bielsa (and Leeds) have definitely got under his skin. He's right in saying it was a dead rubber but other than that... It'd have been him who chose to bring up spygate again, could have just said it was unrelated, over and it's time to move on whilst still saying the same about the villa incident.

Mr Reality
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Mr Reality » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:06 am

Lampard wouldn't have done the same.

I think bielsa only did it to avoid any more controversy after the spying situation.

Ultimately the goal shouldn't have been given back it was one of the few mistakes bielsa made last season.

Clacton white
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:19 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Clacton white » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:09 am

Phil LUFC wrote:Aye, Bielsa (and Leeds) have definitely got under his skin. He's right in saying it was a dead rubber but other than that... It'd have been him who chose to bring up spygate again, could have just said it was unrelated, over and it's time to move on whilst still saying the same about the villa incident.

Of course completely forgetting Derby and selling ground to themselves scenario is Fat Wank . Thing is neither have broken any rule as such but stones and glass houses spring to mind .

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Yeboah » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:16 pm

According to Beeb gossip we are in for that loveable Scouse rogue Slippy G as manager as and when Bielsa leaves.

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby jackos » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:11 am

So we have confirmation from Radz in his YEP/Times interview. Bielsa and team do cost 6M a year.

“It is very expensive, I invested over £90 million — with this level of money you could own a Europa League club in most of the European leagues, including Italy.

“The club makes losses, in this league it is impossible not to. We are still paying the consequences of my first year because I was inexperienced and we made some expensive mistakes with players.

“But we haven’t stopped investing. Bielsa and his staff cost £6 million [a year], we bought many other players and I think we have a squad to be promoted. It’s financially not sustainable to keep this level of salary which is now over £30 million, probably £33 million with Marcelo and closer to £40 million with the coaches.”


30M players, 33 with Marcelo, and 40 with Coaches? That's not 6M ... How do Marcelo his team and coaches add up to 6+4M? What do we get for 6M?

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kennyb41
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:10 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby kennyb41 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:17 am

A dream, full stands and added value on average players to boot.

Probably other stuff as well, but those 3 sprang to mind.

I'm praying he gets us there this year and gets some money from somewhere and also that he doesn't leave if we miss out.
Just coz you're paranoid doesn't mean people aren't after you....Show me a good loser and i'll show you a fcking loser...I owe I owe it's off to work I go.

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welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby welshwhite » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:57 am

Radz is being a little cryptic with his figures, I know from a good source that Bert alone gets £6m per season.

As Kenny say's above he's getting all that back and more, huge crowds and making average players into valuable sell-ons covers more than the 12m he's earned so far.

KP and Coops are now worth 30m alone.
2 seasons ago we'd have all been happy to see them go for free, or at least we'd have not wanted them anywhere near our starting eleven.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Yeboah » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:53 am

I'm sure we could have paid less than £12m to not get promoted for 2 years.

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Phil LUFC » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:00 pm

Yeboah wrote:I'm sure we could have paid less than £12m to not get promoted for 2 years.

Yep, no doubt, but it wouldn't have been half as much fun to watch.

If the ultimate end result is we stay down and sell KP for £20m then the whole thing will have cost us -£5m based on your statement that £2.7m would be a good fee for Phillips.

Using your logic/valuation, we could give Bielsa a 3rd season and still just about break even on the experiment.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Yeboah » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:38 pm

Phil LUFC wrote:
Yeboah wrote:I'm sure we could have paid less than £12m to not get promoted for 2 years.

Yep, no doubt, but it wouldn't have been half as much fun to watch.

If the ultimate end result is we stay down and sell KP for £20m then the whole thing will have cost us -£5m based on your statement that £2.7m would be a good fee for Phillips.

Using your logic/valuation, we could give Bielsa a 3rd season and still just about break even on the experiment.


I sort of get the point, despite the obvious logic flaws

- we haven't sold him yet
- we've given him a big new contract
- how much would he be worth under a different manager?
- losing is fun?

The main inference is that he's worth X due to playing for Bielsa or in a bielsa system where he can receive the ball in 10 yards of space. In a different system or under a different coach is he worth less then?

Clacton white
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:19 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Clacton white » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:50 pm

Yeboah wrote:I sort of get the point, despite the obvious logic flaws

- we haven't sold him yet
- we've given him a big new contract
- how much would he be worth under a different manager?
- losing is fun?

The main inference is that he's worth X due to playing for Bielsa or in a bielsa system where he can receive the ball in 10 yards of space. In a different system or under a different coach is he worth less then?

I think re your third and fourth point here ....firstly , Bielsa found a position Phillips was suited to , where the previous few/couple of managers didn't play him in that manner , so under previous ( and we will never know ) unless they changed tactics then he would probably have been worth around 1-2 million at best - I thought pre last season he was going to follow the Mowatt route . you can only say what you see and that Bielsa has found his ideal place hence increase in value . Cooper - he may well have developed under others , but again under Bielsa he has come on in leaps and bounds - remember the calamity prone defender that he was ?
Losing is never fun , BUT , under the previous few managers it was almost a habit . A lot of the time losing and playing bad football at the same time . No team is going to not lose , every team does at times . Leeds do it far less now ...though they should be doing better admittedly given possession and shots etc . I couldn't see Heck taking Leeds to play offs last season . He might have done this season I admit - but I think it would be League one play offs .

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Yeboah » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:20 pm

Clacton white wrote:
Yeboah wrote:I sort of get the point, despite the obvious logic flaws

- we haven't sold him yet
- we've given him a big new contract
- how much would he be worth under a different manager?
- losing is fun?

The main inference is that he's worth X due to playing for Bielsa or in a bielsa system where he can receive the ball in 10 yards of space. In a different system or under a different coach is he worth less then?

I think re your third and fourth point here ....firstly , Bielsa found a position Phillips was suited to , where the previous few/couple of managers didn't play him in that manner , so under previous ( and we will never know ) unless they changed tactics then he would probably have been worth around 1-2 million at best - I thought pre last season he was going to follow the Mowatt route . you can only say what you see and that Bielsa has found his ideal place hence increase in value . Cooper - he may well have developed under others , but again under Bielsa he has come on in leaps and bounds - remember the calamity prone defender that he was ?
Losing is never fun , BUT , under the previous few managers it was almost a habit . A lot of the time losing and playing bad football at the same time . No team is going to not lose , every team does at times . Leeds do it far less now ...though they should be doing better admittedly given possession and shots etc . I couldn't see Heck taking Leeds to play offs last season . He might have done this season I admit - but I think it would be League one play offs .



Yeah I think that's fair.

I think with point 3 you're making the same point I am. He's worth more due to position/system. Ultimately that will limit his upside.

Cooper is a calamity in the big games still. Play off semi and blades at home.

The frustration with Bielsa is lack of pragmatism....same old same old, with same results

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Phil LUFC » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:07 pm

Yeboah wrote:
Clacton white wrote:
Yeboah wrote:I sort of get the point, despite the obvious logic flaws

- we haven't sold him yet
- we've given him a big new contract
- how much would he be worth under a different manager?
- losing is fun?

The main inference is that he's worth X due to playing for Bielsa or in a bielsa system where he can receive the ball in 10 yards of space. In a different system or under a different coach is he worth less then?

I think re your third and fourth point here ....firstly , Bielsa found a position Phillips was suited to , where the previous few/couple of managers didn't play him in that manner , so under previous ( and we will never know ) unless they changed tactics then he would probably have been worth around 1-2 million at best - I thought pre last season he was going to follow the Mowatt route . you can only say what you see and that Bielsa has found his ideal place hence increase in value . Cooper - he may well have developed under others , but again under Bielsa he has come on in leaps and bounds - remember the calamity prone defender that he was ?
Losing is never fun , BUT , under the previous few managers it was almost a habit . A lot of the time losing and playing bad football at the same time . No team is going to not lose , every team does at times . Leeds do it far less now ...though they should be doing better admittedly given possession and shots etc . I couldn't see Heck taking Leeds to play offs last season . He might have done this season I admit - but I think it would be League one play offs .



Yeah I think that's fair.

I think with point 3 you're making the same point I am. He's worth more due to position/system. Ultimately that will limit his upside.

Cooper is a calamity in the big games still. Play off semi and blades at home.

The frustration with Bielsa is lack of pragmatism....same old same old, with same results

Point 3 is also exactly the point, the Bielsa effect. He's got us to a stage where:
A) We got a £27m offer
B) We felt it correct to reject said £27m offer
(And most seem more than happy we did).

If/when we sell him it's not all that relevent whether the next club help him kick on further or make him look worth £2m max.

Things can change quickly obviously but form so far this season suggests there will be more big offers to consider.

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eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
Location: Over there, behind that bush

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby eric olthwaite » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:27 pm

Longest serving manager since Grayson apparently, as of today.

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metalsmurf
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:08 am
Location: Littleborough, Gtr Scumland

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby metalsmurf » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:38 pm

Don’t really care what BIELSA and his team cost, we’ve wasted so much money on duds, shit players and coaches mates, yes Colin you, it’s nice to enjoy football again.
Because a thing seems difficult for you, do not think it impossible for anyone to accomplish.

Mr Reality
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Mr Reality » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:02 am

Value added to the squad needs to be considered when talking about the cost of Bielsa as does increased commercial performance.

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Ponte
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Between a rock and a hard place.

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Ponte » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:50 am

Mr Reality wrote:Value added to the squad needs to be considered when talking about the cost of Bielsa as does increased commercial performance.

Also value added in enjoying going to Elland Road again and the feeling around the place. I look forward to going to games in a way I haven’t done for years.
Young fans are engaged again, which is massive.
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Hmmm.


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