YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

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Mustafaster
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:02 am
Location: PC Brigade House.

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Mustafaster » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:42 am

welshwhite wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:
welshwhite wrote:We'd get promoted if the owner and DOF were only half as good as the manager.

Wasting 7 million quid on a non motivated striker, plus the wasted money on shite loan signings was our downfall.

I have no confidence in the recrutement this season either.
We're going to lose one or two quality players, what's the chances of duds coming in instead of them....history with our current set-up says that's very high.

Player spotting needs to be done purely by Bielsa and his own staff.
I just hope that was part of his agreement ironed out for him to stay.

No, it's not Bielsa's job to do the scouting.
That's what you have a DoF for.
The coach has enough to do with two matches a week without doing the scouting for girls gig.
The DoF and the coach decide what kind of players we need, and the DoF goes and finds players who fit the profile.


I'm not 100% sure on that, Keegan walked out because they wanted to take that part of the job off him. Doubt if Don Revie or that Whiskey nose cunt, or Clough never had any say in who to bring in either.

I know times are different now and they try to dress things up as (coach) rather than manager.
I find it hard to believe the likes of Guardiola, Klopp and others just bring the cones out, with a DOF just doing the recruitement.

I'd like to think Orta and Bielsa can choose between them, otherwise we're once again fucked.
I wonder who was behind the wanting James here transfer? I'd like to think that was Bielsa.

For 6 million quid a season I'd expect him to coach, recruit, and brush the fucking floor :thumbl:

Having trouble reading today, Doris?
This is how it works, at least in theory.
Owners, coach and DoF get together, identify where they need to sign players and what kind of budget they have to work with.
The coach is the one who has the most input in terms of players.
Once that is done, the DoF goes looking for players who fit the profile at a price that doesn't break the bank. He'll have a huge database covering dozens of leagues all over the world.
He comes back to the coach with a list of likely candidates and sits down with the coach, and they draw up a shortlist. The coach again has final say.
When they identify a player who fits the bill they go to the owner, who has the final say.
Then the owner and/or DoF get in touch with the agents...
Nobody gets signed against the coach's wishes.
In theory.
If you have a sensible owner and a DoF who understands his job is NOT to do coach's job.
Sometimes you get fuckwit owners.
Sometimes the DoF gets ideas above his station.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby welshwhite » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:04 am

There is a need for a DOF at most biggish clubs, mostly to take the strain off the 'Manager' fuck the USA coach tag.

The DOF gets on with sorting players contracts and dealing with agents etc, it's a good thing.

Our DOF has not got an eye for a player bargain, the opposite in fact.

Bates brought Williams with him from Chelsea, he discovered a very young John Terry.
At his time here he found bargains such as Beckford, Snoddy, Becchio, and a few others.
He was not a DOF, he was an old fashioned scout.
If you've got the right man in place there's no need for any data base.
His data base would have been a Poundshop notebook and a pencil.

George Graham without the need of a DOF brought us Jimmy Floyd for just 2 million quid.

Just what the fuck has Orta, or indeed the Romans ever done for us?

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Yeboah » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:14 am

jackos wrote:
Yeboah wrote:If the rumours are true, it’s a mill more than the transfer ‘warchest’


If we sell Pontus + one and only bring in Costa, Harrison plus a young central defender then I would probably agreed that spending 6M to keep Bielsa was a bad idea. I think we got found out after Christmas, other teams had figured out how to neutralise our game, we need more quality if we're going continue to improve and a challenge playing Bielsaball.

At the same time I think it would be suicidal not to invest and go for it, we cant maintain our current losses in the Championship, another manager isn't the answer. The club needs to match its investment off the pitch on it.


And when/if it doesn’t work again, what then?

Admin?

League 1?

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moscowhite
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:47 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby moscowhite » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:11 pm

welshwhite wrote:George Graham without the need of a DOF brought us Jimmy Floyd for just 2 million quid.


Ian McNeill scouted Hasselbaink for Leeds, and I don't imagine we let George Graham have too close a hand in negotiations, given he'd just served an eighteen month ban for taking bungs on transfers at Arsenal.
'If you give Leeds the ball, they will make you dance.' - Johan Cruyff

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welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby welshwhite » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:38 pm

moscowhite wrote:
welshwhite wrote:George Graham without the need of a DOF brought us Jimmy Floyd for just 2 million quid.


Ian McNeill scouted Hasselbaink for Leeds, and I don't imagine we let George Graham have too close a hand in negotiations, given he'd just served an eighteen month ban for taking bungs on transfers at Arsenal.


Everyone takes bungs of some sort, I had more bungs when I worked for my local council than the whole of admiral Doenitz submarine fleet in 1945.

As you say though, a good scout is invaluable. Some good ones like Williams pays for their own wages 20 times over.

As for Orta, he's overseen over 40 million quid going out, Taylor, Wood, Cook, Vieria, Antonsson, Mowatt, Bridcutt, the German Keeper, Sacko, Ekuban, Tojo, and a few others.

And who has he brought in to improve us?

We owe everything to Bielsa, We'd have struggled for mid-table with the shite Orta has brought to the club without him.

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby jackos » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:44 pm

Yeboah wrote:And when/if it doesn’t work again, what then?

Admin?

League 1?


Compared to a lot of other championship clubs our losses are manageable, that’s according the the owner, we are no risk of breaking FFP rules, and are much more attractive to investors with Bielsa in charge.

Not sure what you are suggesting the alternative is?
What makes you think we might get relegated with Bielsa in charge?
What make you think we risk going bankrupt again?

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thestraw
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby thestraw » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:54 pm

Yeboah wrote:
jackos wrote:
Yeboah wrote:If the rumours are true, it’s a mill more than the transfer ‘warchest’


If we sell Pontus + one and only bring in Costa, Harrison plus a young central defender then I would probably agreed that spending 6M to keep Bielsa was a bad idea. I think we got found out after Christmas, other teams had figured out how to neutralise our game, we need more quality if we're going continue to improve and a challenge playing Bielsaball.

At the same time I think it would be suicidal not to invest and go for it, we cant maintain our current losses in the Championship, another manager isn't the answer. The club needs to match its investment off the pitch on it.


And when/if it doesn’t work again, what then?

Admin?

League 1?

Honestly, what on earth gives any inclination whatsoever that we will end up in L1 or bloody admin if we dont go up this year? :?

FFS :roll:
#MOT #GAWA

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Blackwhite
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Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Blackwhite » Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:39 pm

Wait, are you cunts saying we actually didn't get relegated because we didn't get promoted?



Well that's a weight off my fucking mind, hooray!

Here's to the insights of football professionals :drunk:
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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LSD&2Es
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Surrey

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby LSD&2Es » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:57 pm

welshwhite wrote:As for Orta, .......who has he brought in to improve us?




BIELSA!?
The Chief: "trust me, you can't have too many years with a club like Leeds."

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welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby welshwhite » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:01 pm

LSD&2Es wrote:
welshwhite wrote:As for Orta, .......who has he brought in to improve us?




BIELSA!?


Nah, Cellino recomended him to us :thumbl:

I'm not sure if he's the one that told him to hang out for six million fucking quid a year though :thumbd:

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LSD&2Es
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Location: Surrey

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby LSD&2Es » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:04 pm

welshwhite wrote:
LSD&2Es wrote:
welshwhite wrote:As for Orta, .......who has he brought in to improve us?




BIELSA!?


Nah, Cellino recomended him to us :thumbl:


Really? I thought Bielsa met Yeboah at a global football conference and was so impressed with his take on the game and wealth of professional experience that he called VO and begged for a chance??
The Chief: "trust me, you can't have too many years with a club like Leeds."


Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Yeboah » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:06 pm

thestraw wrote:Honestly, what on earth gives any inclination whatsoever that we will end up in L1 or bloody admin if we dont go up this year? :?

FFS :roll:


The short answer is the accounts......

Latest declared accounts we lost c.£4m.....but that included a cash injection from shareholders of a sum in excess of £11m. So the true operational loss was £15m.

This year just gone, Hay has said in YEP that the operational loss is ‘over £20m’

If we have another similar year, squad wise we’ll presumably lose a similar sum.

So, when Bielsa hasnt got us promoted again next year, we could be c £50m in debt.

And if the owner refuses to put in any more money or won’t sell due to price difference then admin. could happen.

Best case is that we sell all saleable assets and end up in L1 cos the team is crap.

The clubs finances are public knowledge, I’m amazed at the general ignorance on here.

Of course Qataris..... well , changes....

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moscowhite
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:47 pm

YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby moscowhite » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:23 pm

If the Qataris come in we could still not win promotion despite spending much more, like Derby for the last however many seasons, meaning we would lose even more money each season, building up even larger debts, that the Qataris could decide to stop underwriting at any point, sending the club into admin.

See also: anybody owning any club in the Football League spending any amount.

Or they could get us promoted. But then Radrizzani and Bielsa might do that while building up substantially less debt risk than spending gas millions on players. Who knows? The unpredictability of football is part of its appeal.

The only guaranteed way to guard against scenarios that end in admin is to just close the club down now. Won't lose money then.

Andymac-47
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:06 pm
Location: Belfast

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Andymac-47 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:09 am

moscowhite wrote:
welshwhite wrote:George Graham without the need of a DOF brought us Jimmy Floyd for just 2 million quid.


Ian McNeill scouted Hasselbaink for Leeds, and I don't imagine we let George Graham have too close a hand in negotiations, given he'd just served an eighteen month ban for taking bungs on transfers at Arsenal.

Wasn't the story that McNeil went to look at Bruno Ribero, and Jimmy had a blinder, we ended up signing both of them.
Andymac

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thestraw
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby thestraw » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:50 am

Yeboah wrote:
thestraw wrote:Honestly, what on earth gives any inclination whatsoever that we will end up in L1 or bloody admin if we dont go up this year? :?

FFS :roll:


The short answer is the accounts......

Latest declared accounts we lost c.£4m.....but that included a cash injection from shareholders of a sum in excess of £11m. So the true operational loss was £15m.

This year just gone, Hay has said in YEP that the operational loss is ‘over £20m’

If we have another similar year, squad wise we’ll presumably lose a similar sum.

So, when Bielsa hasnt got us promoted again next year, we could be c £50m in debt.

And if the owner refuses to put in any more money or won’t sell due to price difference then admin. could happen.

Best case is that we sell all saleable assets and end up in L1 cos the team is crap.

The clubs finances are public knowledge, I’m amazed at the general ignorance on here.

Of course Qataris..... well , changes....

If we end up in admin or in L1 in the next 24 months i will eat my hat.
#MOT #GAWA

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thestraw
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby thestraw » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:51 am

Andymac-47 wrote:
moscowhite wrote:
welshwhite wrote:George Graham without the need of a DOF brought us Jimmy Floyd for just 2 million quid.


Ian McNeill scouted Hasselbaink for Leeds, and I don't imagine we let George Graham have too close a hand in negotiations, given he'd just served an eighteen month ban for taking bungs on transfers at Arsenal.

Wasn't the story that McNeil went to look at Bruno Ribero, and Jimmy had a blinder, we ended up signing both of them.

Or was it the other way as i remember it?
#MOT #GAWA

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Yeboah » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:19 pm

thestraw wrote:
Yeboah wrote:
thestraw wrote:Honestly, what on earth gives any inclination whatsoever that we will end up in L1 or bloody admin if we dont go up this year? :?

FFS :roll:


The short answer is the accounts......

Latest declared accounts we lost c.£4m.....but that included a cash injection from shareholders of a sum in excess of £11m. So the true operational loss was £15m.

This year just gone, Hay has said in YEP that the operational loss is ‘over £20m’

If we have another similar year, squad wise we’ll presumably lose a similar sum.

So, when Bielsa hasnt got us promoted again next year, we could be c £50m in debt.

And if the owner refuses to put in any more money or won’t sell due to price difference then admin. could happen.

Best case is that we sell all saleable assets and end up in L1 cos the team is crap.

The clubs finances are public knowledge, I’m amazed at the general ignorance on here.

Of course Qataris..... well , changes....

If we end up in admin or in L1 in the next 24 months i will eat my hat.


Ok, I hope so too...

How do you think it happens then?

Do you dispute the numbers or is promotion almost certain?

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby Yeboah » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:26 pm

moscowhite wrote:If the Qataris come in we could still not win promotion despite spending much more, like Derby for the last however many seasons, meaning we would lose even more money each season, building up even larger debts, that the Qataris could decide to stop underwriting at any point, sending the club into admin.

See also: anybody owning any club in the Football League spending any amount.

Or they could get us promoted. But then Radrizzani and Bielsa might do that while building up substantially less debt risk than spending gas millions on players. Who knows? The unpredictability of football is part of its appeal.

The only guaranteed way to guard against scenarios that end in admin is to just close the club down now. Won't lose money then.


Yep, understand the argument.

I think it is generally believed that money talks and success chance is enhanced by money availability. Not always of course but as a ‘most probable’ outcome.

There is potentially a better managed risk approach using the academy. Which then makes the ridiculous investment in Bielsa look....well, even more ridiculous!

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thestraw
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: YES that Mad Bastard Bielsa's brand of football IS good enough for Leeds United

Postby thestraw » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:19 pm

Yeboah wrote:If we end up in admin or in L1 in the next 24 months i will eat my hat.

Ok, I hope so too...

How do you think it happens then?

Do you dispute the numbers or is promotion almost certain?


I don’t dispute the figures as they are open to see, but we can afford those losses for now without the Club going under like you claim it will. That isn’t even a possibility in the short or medium term.

What I do strongly dispute is the figures being quoted for Bielsa as £6m; as well as the risk you claim it is by handing one of the best coaches in world football another contract for 12 months, that is just an absolute bonkers statement.
#MOT #GAWA


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