Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

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Bobbycollins
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:52 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Bobbycollins » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:45 pm

Ponte wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:Wilshere going to Bournemouth on a free apparently. Probably a sensible level, and maybe Bournemouth think they can afford a decorative trinket who may or may not turn out to be useful.

Can we get Brooks then? Or perhaps Cook?

I quite liked Brooks but I can't see Bournemouth selling any more players now that they are third in the Championship and have already pocketed large fees for Ake, Frazer and Wilson. I hoped Lewis Cook would be successful when he moved into the Prem but from the odd clip on MOTD he seemed a bit lightweight and I think we need a more robust midfielder. His goal for us against Fulham was still one of the most surprising things I've seen at ER in the last few years.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby eric olthwaite » Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:58 pm

Bloke I follow on Twitter said yesterday summat to the effect that the worst mistake the club had made since Bielsa had arrived was selling Vieira. He since deleted it when a lot of people disagreed, but I think it’s sort of interesting.

Obviously we needed the money and I was never really sure whether he was the real deal. But I suppose you could speculate as to whether Bielsa could have done his retraining number and created the Forshaw / Klich / Bowyer hybrid we could really do with at the minute.

Discuss.
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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Phil LUFC » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:06 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:Bloke I follow on Twitter said yesterday summat to the effect that the worst mistake the club had made since Bielsa had arrived was selling Vieira. He since deleted it when a lot of people disagreed, but I think it’s sort of interesting.

Obviously we needed the money and I was never really sure whether he was the real deal. But I suppose you could speculate as to whether Bielsa could have done his retraining number and created the Forshaw / Klich / Bowyer hybrid we could really do with at the minute.

Discuss.

Hindsight and all that but if we'd done the Haaland deal and then kept Vieira due to saving the £7m paid for Bamford*.

*Yes, I know the main flaw here is the Vieira fee was all signed for in one go while Bamford only cost about £2m amortisation in year 1. Also, Bamford has been a success despite the frustration he could have scored twice as many.

Actually, a counter but more outlandish thought is selling Ekuban was a mistake. There was a hard working goal shy Bamford backup right there and I remain convinced Bielsa could have made something special of him.

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby dirty leeds » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:13 pm

You don't always have the choice, though. And if you need an amount of money then you have to see someone to that value - someone that a club with dosh actually wants. You're always going to have sell a player you'd rather keep and you have to make the decision and go with it. Absolutely no point in looking back and saying, 'Oh, if only...' [Sort of thinking you'd find in the 'Because Wives' thread.]
He hasn't turned out all that special anyway. Kalvin has been great. Vieira wasn't a bad mistake. Just another decision. Daft getting hung up on it as 'the reason' or owt like that.

Arnieb
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Arnieb » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:14 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:Bloke I follow on Twitter said yesterday summat to the effect that the worst mistake the club had made since Bielsa had arrived was selling Vieira. He since deleted it when a lot of people disagreed, but I think it’s sort of interesting.

Obviously we needed the money and I was never really sure whether he was the real deal. But I suppose you could speculate as to whether Bielsa could have done his retraining number and created the Forshaw / Klich / Bowyer hybrid we could really do with at the minute.

Discuss.


I saw that. I think the point was that Bielsa wanted to keep Viera, but Radz said it was a choice of keeping Viera or signing Bamford and MB wanted a new centre forward.

From what I have read Bielsa doubted Viera's technical ability but thought that with his age he could have done something with him.

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FredFlintstone
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:44 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby FredFlintstone » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:19 pm

Out on season long loan to Hellas Verona with a view to buy apparently.

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Oheddieeddie
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Oheddieeddie » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:27 pm

I’m thinking that we would have less need for cover if our 4 big new players were fit more often.

A quick check shows that of the 72 starts available so far our new boys have only managed to make 32 of them. Llorente is the key in terms of versatility.he can easily play defensive mid when we have issues. KP could move forward in this case too. Apparently Koch can also play defensive mid, but I think he’s too valuable at CB.

To answer the question, I’ve no doubt that Viera would have been great for Bielsa and would have ‘trained on’. He was strong, athletic, good engine, strong tackler, decent passer. He’s only 22 now.

As I recall we needed the money to Fund Bamford.

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Quiffy » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:08 pm

Arnieb wrote:I saw that. I think the point was that Bielsa wanted to keep Viera, but Radz said it was a choice of keeping Viera or signing Bamford and MB wanted a new centre forward.

From what I have read Bielsa doubted Viera's technical ability but thought that with his age he could have done something with him.

that's what i thought too.

like many, including sampdoria, i thought ronnie was the better of the two at the time. i suppose the two things kalvin has over ronnie is a bit of height so is more effective in the air (possibly one of the reasons he likes struijk deputising in that role) and he's a really good long passer of the ball.

and i dunno if ronnie was mobile enough to be a klich/forshaw facsimile.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby eric olthwaite » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:02 pm

Quiffy wrote:and i dunno if ronnie was mobile enough to be a klich/forshaw facsimile.


Aye, I suppose my whole position is based on the magical theory that Bielsa could have trained it into him.

I think I’m essentially arguing that Chris Dawson could have been the new Pablo, aren’t I?
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the flying pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby the flying pig » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:26 pm

I always liked the look of Ronnie V. I agree he was a bit heavy and maybe a bit technically ordinary to play in say the klich role. under Bielsa I could probably imagine him playing in a back three?

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Professor Weeto
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:49 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Professor Weeto » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:04 am

the flying pig wrote:I always liked the look of Ronnie V. I agree he was a bit heavy and maybe a bit technically ordinary to play in say the klich role. under Bielsa I could probably imagine him playing in a back three?


He did play on the left or right of a back three in at least one preseason game in Bielsa’s first season, I think.

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Ponte
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:36 am
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Ponte » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:10 am

Professor Weeto wrote:
the flying pig wrote:I always liked the look of Ronnie V. I agree he was a bit heavy and maybe a bit technically ordinary to play in say the klich role. under Bielsa I could probably imagine him playing in a back three?


He did play on the left or right of a back three in at least one preseason game in Bielsa’s first season, I think.


To be fair, pretty much everyone did.

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Tommy
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:07 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Tommy » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:24 am

FredFlintstone wrote:Out on season long loan to Hellas Verona with a view to buy apparently.

He's only played two league matches for them, both draws (though one was against Juventus). He didn't end up playing a great deal at Sampdoria either. There's a chance he might have to drop further down the leagues to get regular gametime.

I don't think there's been owt to suggest this was a major clanger on our part, particularly given that you can't really ask for much more than Kalvin and Klich have ended up giving us (for a grand sum of £1.5m for both). At 21 I think Jamie Shackleton might even be broadly equivalent, though he's a different sort of midfielder. Comparatively, Bamford's goals and performances under Bielsa had us promoted as Champions and he's already scored goals that will likely keep us up this season too. I can't imagine Vieira having anywhere near that sort of impact, even if it's not impossible that he would have been better under Bielsa.

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MightyWhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:38 am
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby MightyWhite » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:00 am

the flying pig wrote:I always liked the look of Ronnie V. I agree he was a bit heavy and maybe a bit technically ordinary to play in say the klich role. under Bielsa I could probably imagine him playing in a back three?


He could have been decent in the role Forshaw played when Bielsa went with two number 8s
Keep Fighting

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Tommy
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Tommy » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:03 am

Yeah if we'd had Forshaw available - who has actually played in and by most accounts looked absolutely at home in the Premier League - this would be even more of a moot point. I suspect he'd still be one of the first names on the team-sheet.

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Phil LUFC » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:09 pm

So ultimately we're saying it's a shame we weren't offered £8m for Forshaw that summer?

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Oheddieeddie
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Oheddieeddie » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:51 pm

Tommy wrote:Yeah if we'd had Forshaw available - who has actually played in and by most accounts looked absolutely at home in the Premier League - this would be even more of a moot point. I suspect he'd still be one of the first names on the team-sheet.


I’m not arguing that Bielsa wouldn’t play Forshaw as he does seem to like him a lot.

BUT in regard to him looking at home in the premier league I’m not convinced

Matches played - 35
Assists - 1
Goals - 0

I know there’s more to it than that, but those stats are awful. Additionally he slows our play down and has made a number of mistakes that have led to goals against

I’ve seen him have maybe 4 or 5 good games for Leeds in total. He’s definitely a player who’s legacy has improved when he hadn’t had to play or prove it.

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Tommy
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Tommy » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:15 pm

I was in total agreement with you until the first few games of last season, then it suddenly made sense to me. When he was the third man with Kalvin and Klich we looked imperious. He never made sense doing Kalvin's role but as the third midfielder (so to speak) he was superb. Always wanting the ball, showing for it every time. We still miss a player like that.

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The Tin Man
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:25 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby The Tin Man » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:07 am

According to Canal + Jordan Amavi is on his way .
Funny comments below about rats leaving a sinking ship.
For every step,the footprint was already there.

Eddies Boots
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 5:07 am
Location: Arizona

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Eddies Boots » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:39 am

A left back.
A quick google shows him listed as a target for Arsenal and Palace - oh and Napoli and AC Milan.
And not a regular starter for Marseille it seems.


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