Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

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the flying pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby the flying pig » Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:12 am

Eddies Boots wrote:Not the worst, but not what we would need unless Llorente is back safe and sound... then again probably journo-bollocks having seen us play lately.

Leeds United are keeping tabs on Chelsea's England defender Fikayo Tomori, 22, with a view to a move for him in the January transfer window. (Football Insider)


But wiki says he is Canadian - can that be a good thing? And
On 6 August 2018, Tomori joined Championship side Derby County on a season long loan.[16] He made his debut on 11 August in a 1–4 loss against Leeds United.[17][18] His time at the club saw him named the club's "Player of the Year".[19]


hmm, that's the exact guy Fat Frank was taking aim at (being small for a centre back, Ben White style) when he gushed that little kidney stone of wisdom about needing lots of tall players in his team to attack and defend set pieces etc.

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eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby eric olthwaite » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:02 am

the flying pig wrote:hmm, that's the exact guy Fat Frank was taking aim at (being small for a centre back, Ben White style) when he gushed out that little kidney stone of wisdom about needing lots of tall players in his team to attack and defend set pieces etc.


TBH I think I'd rather have 5'3" Berardi back, put it that way.
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Bobbycollins
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:52 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Bobbycollins » Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:35 am

Can't see it. Firstly god said that we aren't buying a CB in Jan and secondly we are always linked with unwanted UK-based players whenever we have a perceived problem but recent history indicates that better value players are usually sought from abroad.

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Tommy
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:07 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Tommy » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:23 am

Tomori is right-footed, which means that it's only marginally less likely than me being given a contract in January. As it stands our right-footed centre-half roster is -

Koch
Llorente
Berardi
Ayling
Casey
Cresswell
Drameh
Kenneh

I'd imagine that Bielsa already considers this to be an absurd amount of players for one position. I don't mind Ayling playing there with Dallas at right-back if I'm honest.

Trumper
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Trumper » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:41 am

If Joelinton or Carroll head a goal tonight then we need a cb

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Bobbycollins
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:52 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Bobbycollins » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:55 am

It's 17 days until the January transfer window opens, however it's unlikely that a player signed on 2 Jan would make his league debut before the Brighton game on 16 Jan. Llorente should be back to fitness in a couple of weeks.

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby dirty leeds » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:56 am

Trumper wrote:If Joelinton or Carroll head a goal tonight then we need a cb


Carroll is still very effective in the air against anybody. Only thing wrong with him is he's nearly always crocked. His heading ability hasn't been affected by those injuries, just the rest of his game.
Joelinton, on the other hand...

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby eric olthwaite » Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:07 pm

Tommy wrote:I'd imagine that Bielsa already considers this to be an absurd amount of players for one position.


On the whole buying someone issue I agree, generally, unless we could get a really very good loan which seems unlikely. I'd much rather we put all our January transfer enthusiasm and cash into some sort of Klich / Bowyer-a-like. Come hither, other Rodrigo.

Tommy wrote:I don't mind Ayling playing there with Dallas at right-back if I'm honest.


This I do disagree with, on the grounds that:
i) Ayling is not a great CB, particularly in the air.
ii) Dallas makes more of a useful contribution if he's not stuck out at RB
ii) The loss of Ayling at RB damages us from an attacking perspective.

Think I'd rather go into tonight with Cooper and Struijk at CB.

Now watch this happen and it turn out to be a fucking disaster, following on from my complaints about Costa not playing and seeing how that turned out.
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Tommy
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Tommy » Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:09 pm

Trumper wrote:If Joelinton or Carroll head a goal tonight then we need a cb

I disagree with this, I think that all of our problems at the moment stem from not finishing the chances we create. Even when we're playing fairly badly we still create enough goal opportunities to win, which makes goals conceded almost a moot point. If we were scoring more the defence wouldn't be under such scrutiny because goals change the complexion of the game.

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the flying pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby the flying pig » Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:11 pm

dirty leeds wrote:
Trumper wrote:If Joelinton or Carroll head a goal tonight then we need a cb


Carroll is still very effective in the air against anybody. Only thing wrong with him is he's nearly always crocked. His heading ability hasn't been affected by those injuries, just the rest of his game...


yeah, i dunno, i'd have thought his jumping ability must have been impacted by this little lot.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby eric olthwaite » Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:13 pm

I'll be annoyed if that Joseph Linton scores, just because of his fucking stupid name.
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the flying pig
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby the flying pig » Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:15 pm

i don't *mind* ayling at CB... i think a team just needs to have height somewhere in the side, by my reckoning most modern PL sides have a fairly modest open play aerial threat [e.g. giroud, when we played against them, is moderately unusual, though there are others such as DCL, benteke, probably others, chris wood isn't bad] but a fairly formidable set piece one... i don't necessarily think that your big guys need to be at CB, they can be anywhere really, but you do need to have at least one or two.

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Quiffy » Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:56 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:Think I'd rather go into tonight with Cooper and Struijk at CB.

Now watch this happen and it turn out to be a fucking disaster, following on from my complaints about Costa not playing and seeing how that turned out.

both are left footers, which in terms of distribution from the back, where we've been shaky, makes life a bit trickier.

anyhow as they play with two up top, fnarrr, i've seen some internet pundits suggesting we'll go three at the back, which may involve kalvin dropping deeper.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby eric olthwaite » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:01 pm

Quiffy wrote:both are left footers, which in terms of distribution from the back, where we've been shaky, makes life a bit trickier.


Is this absolutely, definitely a serious concern? Dunno, I suppose I assume that CB is about the last position where foot bias matters that much. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Phil LUFC » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:11 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:
Quiffy wrote:both are left footers, which in terms of distribution from the back, where we've been shaky, makes life a bit trickier.


Is this absolutely, definitely a serious concern? Dunno, I suppose I assume that CB is about the last position where foot bias matters that much. Maybe I'm wrong.

I think like most positions its possible to pay either side for a right or left footer but I would say there's a definite difference between the positions of RCB and LCB. Not to the same level as full backs and wingers but definitely more so than central midfield/strikers.

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Quiffy » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:14 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:
Quiffy wrote:both are left footers, which in terms of distribution from the back, where we've been shaky, makes life a bit trickier.


Is this absolutely, definitely a serious concern? Dunno, I suppose I assume that CB is about the last position where foot bias matters that much. Maybe I'm wrong.

it's primarliy because when you pass it there's a natural curl on the ball as you tend to use the inside of your foot. in your mind just picture liam cooper's favourite pass, the long diagonal. he can play that whilst facing forward easily if he moves the ball on to his left foot, which is also moving it away from the centre of the pitch which is the danger area. everytime he does this he has his body shielding the ball from anyone approaching from the middle of the pitch. likewise passes up the line to the full back, a left footer will play it naturally with a bit of favourable curl to keep the ball in play and keep the pass away from interceptions.

then swap this round so one of them is on the right hand side. the angles aren't as favourable and most of his passing will involve him moving the ball on to his left foot which is towards the centre of the pitch and onto his open side right in front of the goal.

I hope this makes some sort of sense, it'd be easier to explain with diagrams.

bearing in mind how often we seem to be living on the seat of our pants when distributing it from the back with everyone in their favourable positions, players turning it towards dangerous areas and taking extra touches just doesn't seem ideal to me.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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Phil LUFC
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Phil LUFC » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:35 pm

Quiffy wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:
Quiffy wrote:both are left footers, which in terms of distribution from the back, where we've been shaky, makes life a bit trickier.


Is this absolutely, definitely a serious concern? Dunno, I suppose I assume that CB is about the last position where foot bias matters that much. Maybe I'm wrong.

it's primarliy because when you pass it there's a natural curl on the ball as you tend to use the inside of your foot. in your mind just picture liam cooper's favourite pass, the long diagonal. he can play that whilst facing forward easily if he moves the ball on to his left foot, which is also moving it away from the centre of the pitch which is the danger area. everytime he does this he has his body shielding the ball from anyone approaching from the middle of the pitch. likewise passes up the line to the full back, a left footer will play it naturally with a bit of favourable curl to keep the ball in play and keep the pass away from interceptions.

then swap this round so one of them is on the right hand side. the angles aren't as favourable and most of his passing will involve him moving the ball on to his left foot which is towards the centre of the pitch and onto his open side right in front of the goal.

I hope this makes some sort of sense, it'd be easier to explain with diagrams.

bearing in mind how often we seem to be living on the seat of our pants when distributing it from the back with everyone in their favourable positions, players turning it towards dangerous areas and taking extra touches just doesn't seem ideal to me.

Without the ball there's also the more natural tackling when running towards your own goal with the striker outside.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby eric olthwaite » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:54 pm

I suppose that I'm thinking that - for example - if you're defending a low-incoming corner or a cross from wide, you're best off with two right-footed CBs or two left-footed CBs depending where the ball's coming from. That's obviously not possible, so a degree of adaptation is always acknowledged. I can see how a wrong-footed CB, in distribution, could turn his body a bit to suit in a way that a wrong footed winger could not.
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rss1969
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:52 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby rss1969 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:16 pm

Generally speaking we have been ok with the ball at our feet this season back 4 wise..........not brilliant by any means and we have conceded goals because of it, notably at home to Leicester but this was always going to be the case going up a big level.

We have been completely rinsed from set-pieces so far though. We got away with it last season because the opposition saw so much less of the ball (prem players are so much cuter at winning free kicks in dangerous areas) and did so much less with it..........despite people probably thinking that more set-piece goals are scored at lower levels, this does not seem to be the case.

I feel like we have been taken by surprise a little with the quality of delivery and the obvious work that teams put into both defending and attacking set pieces.

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Quiffy
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Quiffy » Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:02 am

Harvey Barnes, erling haaland, viviani ? I don't suppose anyone with a subscription would be so kind as to complete this list?
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.


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