Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

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LSD&2Es
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:06 am
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby LSD&2Es » Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:04 pm

jackos wrote:
LSD&2Es wrote:Where is all the talk coming from of White being on a youth contract still?


Just me using the wrong term to say that he's still on a relatively low wage despite being at a EPL club, remember he's only ever played two league cup games for them.


Not just you mate, saw some bloke in Twitter saying the same
The Chief: "trust me, you can't have too many years with a club like Leeds."

Yeboah
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Yeboah » Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:03 pm

Phil LUFC wrote:
jackos wrote:
Yeboah wrote:In what situation does White have the power here?


I thought that was pretty obvious, he's on a youth contract at Brighton, earning 5k or so a week, doesn't matter that he has two years left on his contract, if he does not agree improved terms he'll be off.

He might not end up at ER, but it looks lively he's played his last game for Brighton.

I don't think it's the wages so much, they'd give him a fair bit more if he was prepared to accept it and at 5-10k per week they could afford the "for in the reserves" option. The reason he has the power here is at least one club is prepared to pay £22m+ for him. You don't keep an unhappy asset when good sums are on offer. Especially one who's never contributed anything to your first team.

The risk here is he's outgrown both clubs already and the Liverpool/Chelsea interest is genuine.


Club are in control here, which doesn't mean he will ever play for BHAFC but does mean they will decide what happens next.

So, let's work through the scenario's here....

He's still got 2 years left on his contract with them so irrespective of what he does he ain't going anywhere without their say so.

I can't see him refusing to play in EPL seeing as he's not played at that level before. If he does they can stick him in the stiffs for 6 months and sell him for similar money anyway.

If he plays really well for BHAFC for a dozen games or so he's a 40m+ player straight away, maybe more.

BHAFC won't want to sell to us unless silly money as they will see us as relegation rivals.

They've turned down the bids I suspect because they know LFC or CFC are going to bid more....and with the greatest of respect he'd be crazy to turn either of them down. But even if he did, I don't think they'd sell him to us........at least not in this window.

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Oheddieeddie
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Oheddieeddie » Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:54 pm

I’m not sure they will get a better offer. Clubs are tightening their belts apart from a couple of shithouse exceptions. Chelsea possibly. We might have a chance

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Yeboah » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:39 am

Oheddieeddie wrote:I’m not sure they will get a better offer. Clubs are tightening their belts apart from a couple of shithouse exceptions. Chelsea possibly. We might have a chance


Doubtful

https://talksport.com/football/743630/c ... ben-white/

To be fair, a club in our position shouldn't be bidding £20m+ for potential

Son of Leeds
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:13 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Son of Leeds » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:50 am

That report is from The Daily Star? Is this an organ known for veracity?
Leeds United is ruining my life.

jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby jackos » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:52 am

Yeboah wrote:
Doubtful

https://talksport.com/football/743630/c ... ben-white/

To be fair, a club in our position shouldn't be bidding £20m+ for potential



The Mail has a list of about ten defenders Chelsea are supposedly chasing, White isn't on it, they have far more experienced options if they have 40m to spend. Doesn't mean they won't buy White and a more experienced cb, and Brighton would very likely rather sell to them or Liverpool than us, even at 20m, but so far the only "unofficially" confirmed bids came from us. It also depends a lot on what White wants, he is guaranteed a EPL start for Bielsa, he isn't for Chelsea or Liverpool [or Brighton]

I do agree though, ~20m must be our limit, unless a big chunk of the fee is performance based and includes England caps etc
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kennyb41
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby kennyb41 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:05 am

Diawara - this is the type of speculation that seems more concrete to me, 23yo Roma.

I'm surprised we haven't seen much speculation about a good few of Berts ex players - there must be some that he's told the monkey to try and get coz he knows them inside out.

:basket:
Just coz you're paranoid doesn't mean people aren't after you....Show me a good loser and i'll show you a fcking loser...I owe I owe it's off to work I go.

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Phil LUFC » Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:50 am

Yeboah wrote:
Oheddieeddie wrote:I’m not sure they will get a better offer. Clubs are tightening their belts apart from a couple of shithouse exceptions. Chelsea possibly. We might have a chance


Doubtful

https://talksport.com/football/743630/c ... ben-white/

To be fair, a club in our position shouldn't be bidding £20m+ for potential

We're not bidding for potential, we're bidding to retain a stable defence (from the opening game). He knows the system and has shone in it. Preseason is too short this time round so any other player is a gamble for the opening month or so. If he'd been fit, the short term solution would have been Berardi and we'd be able to take a bit more time. The potential is raising the fee. I think we'd take him on loan again if it was that or nothing, probably at £5m loan fee.

One thing which is probably important though: If we don't agree a deal for White this week we should look elsewhere as Bielsa will need someone as close to day 1 (Wednesday) as possible to begin the process.

rss1969
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby rss1969 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:28 am

Tomori is available from Chelsea and would be a cheaper alternative. Was one of Derby’s better players last season.

We cannot keep our eggs in one basket to be let down in 10 days time with White. We have bid 22m which imo is already too high. Go in once more and then leave it there and move on to the next target.

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Bobbycollins
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Bobbycollins » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:06 am

kennyb41 wrote:
I'm surprised we haven't seen much speculation about a good few of Berts ex players - there must be some that he's told the monkey to try and get coz he knows them inside out.

:basket:

Trouble is there's only the 6 months at Lille to choose from, as he left Marseille 5 years ago. Of the young players he signed at Lille, I think only one, a winger, is still at Lille and has only played 34 games in the last 3 years; Nicolas Pépé cost Arsenal £72m, which isn't our territory; one has returned to play for Flamenco in Brazil, other have left for Monaco and Napoli. Of the current Lille squad, all the forwards appear to have been signed after Bielsa left the club, so I think Lille may not be an option.

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kennyb41
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby kennyb41 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:52 am

Bobbycollins wrote:
kennyb41 wrote:
I'm surprised we haven't seen much speculation about a good few of Berts ex players - there must be some that he's told the monkey to try and get coz he knows them inside out.

:basket:

Trouble is there's only the 6 months at Lille to choose from, as he left Marseille 5 years ago. Of the young players he signed at Lille, I think only one, a winger, is still at Lille and has only played 34 games in the last 3 years; Nicolas Pépé cost Arsenal £72m, which isn't our territory; one has returned to play for Flamenco in Brazil, other have left for Monaco and Napoli. Of the current Lille squad, all the forwards appear to have been signed after Bielsa left the club, so I think Lille may not be an option.


Fck me that's good research, love it.

:salute:
Just coz you're paranoid doesn't mean people aren't after you....Show me a good loser and i'll show you a fcking loser...I owe I owe it's off to work I go.

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kennyb41
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby kennyb41 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:58 am

Well i'm hoping like fck it's not left up to the monkey and am of the thunking now that Bert will have seen the potential in a good few Championship players, like Dan James and the Wigan and Fulham boys....here's hoping...coz i'm not as sure as Phil about this 'stable' defence and Prem teams learning how easy it is to beat us...my expectations are v low atm and if we come out the traps ok with the current, to say i'd be surprised would be mega understatement.

In Bert i trust but in the monkey i don't.
Just coz you're paranoid doesn't mean people aren't after you....Show me a good loser and i'll show you a fcking loser...I owe I owe it's off to work I go.

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FredFlintstone
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby FredFlintstone » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:11 am

See Modric is on his way out at Madrid. Could be the new Pablo :)

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Mustafaster
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Mustafaster » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:28 am

FredFlintstone wrote:See Modric is on his way out at Madrid. Could be the new Pablo :)

About same age as Pablo, and not quite as good, so no thanks.
He'll be off to China for the big bucks.
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Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Yeboah » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:49 am

jackos wrote:
Yeboah wrote:
Doubtful

https://talksport.com/football/743630/c ... ben-white/

To be fair, a club in our position shouldn't be bidding £20m+ for potential



The Mail has a list of about ten defenders Chelsea are supposedly chasing, White isn't on it, they have far more experienced options if they have 40m to spend. Doesn't mean they won't buy White and a more experienced cb, and Brighton would very likely rather sell to them or Liverpool than us, even at 20m, but so far the only "unofficially" confirmed bids came from us. It also depends a lot on what White wants, he is guaranteed a EPL start for Bielsa, he isn't for Chelsea or Liverpool [or Brighton]

I do agree though, ~20m must be our limit, unless a big chunk of the fee is performance based and includes England caps etc


I don't think it will matter what he wants due to his contract situation and him never been a EPL player before.

He can say he wants to come to Leeds all he wants, Brighton can either play him or send him to the stiffs for 6 months instead.

No player should be guaranteed a start anywhere......not good for competition.

Going to one of the other 2 clubs means a chance of UCL and winning a trophy, not something likely to happen here

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Yeboah » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:58 am

Phil LUFC wrote:
Yeboah wrote:
Oheddieeddie wrote:I’m not sure they will get a better offer. Clubs are tightening their belts apart from a couple of shithouse exceptions. Chelsea possibly. We might have a chance


Doubtful

https://talksport.com/football/743630/c ... ben-white/

To be fair, a club in our position shouldn't be bidding £20m+ for potential

We're not bidding for potential, we're bidding to retain a stable defence (from the opening game). He knows the system and has shone in it. Preseason is too short this time round so any other player is a gamble for the opening month or so. If he'd been fit, the short term solution would have been Berardi and we'd be able to take a bit more time. The potential is raising the fee. I think we'd take him on loan again if it was that or nothing, probably at £5m loan fee.

One thing which is probably important though: If we don't agree a deal for White this week we should look elsewhere as Bielsa will need someone as close to day 1 (Wednesday) as possible to begin the process.



Stability wil be overrated if we get dicked by 4 or so.

Funny how it would be a gamble not to play him but wouldn't be to play someone who's never played at that level before.....or indeed 2 of them.

I don't think loaning him is an option, given he'd only have 1 year left on his contract After this season.

It might be that Bielsa has tied his own situation to Whites , in which case......all bets would be off

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Phil LUFC
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Phil LUFC » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:21 am

Yeboah wrote:Stability wil be overrated if we get dicked by 4 or so.

Funny how it would be a gamble not to play him but wouldn't be to play someone who's never played at that level before.....or indeed 2 of them.

I don't think loaning him is an option, given he'd only have 1 year left on his contract After this season.

It might be that Bielsa has tied his own situation to Whites , in which case......all bets would be off

The main gamble the club is taking here is to stick with Bielsa and his methods. It feels a pretty safe bet to me but if course there's the possibility we fail to gain a foothold and don't create enough chances to miss while being done on the counter 3 or 4 times every game.

The only certain thing with Bielsa is is his way or nothing, he'd refuse to play Messi is he didn't hit his weight or running targets.

Are there better defenders than White and Cooper? Definitely, lots of them.

Are there any defenders outside of the club other than White who would split straight in, know what's expected of them, meet the targets and not need 2 months to learn everyone's runs, positioning, when to mark and when to leave the man... Etc?
Only Pontus and Halme. One who's attitude we didn't like the other hasn't fully established himself at Barnsley.

Bottom line: I firmly believe the ability to name the same starting XI as against Charlton is our best chance of a good start to the season. I also firmly believe a strong start with the momentum from last season is our best chance of a successful season (ie not being in a relegation battle). We cannot do that without signing White. I'd go to £25m and maybe include another £5m of add-ons (in the squad for the Euro's, we stay up, a percentage of profits from his next transfer). And maybe even a relegation buy back clause. I don't think this represents a great deal but as above there's a premium for knowing in advance he's a good fit with the squad.

Agree on loaning him, he would have to sign a new deal with Brighton first, which it seems he's not keen to do.

I think it's unlikely Bielsa would walk if we failed to sign White but I do think it's important we're seen to have tried our best. If I assume for a moment that the future of both is intrinsically linked then I'd pay £40m for White. For the same reason I'm less bothered than others about having spent £15m on Costa (in that case I kind of assume we could have got him for £10m on the last day of the window with the uplift in part being due to needing him early in preseason to work with him).

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby eric olthwaite » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:46 am

Phil LUFC wrote:I'd go to £25m and maybe include another £5m of add-ons (in the squad for the Euro's, we stay up, a percentage of profits from his next transfer). And maybe even a relegation buy back clause. I don't think this represents a great deal but as above there's a premium for knowing in advance he's a good fit with the squad.


Don't disagree with what you're saying as a general principle in relation to asset 'worth', but the wider issue is what percentage is spent on White as a part of what the club can afford to spend elsewhere. We need a striker, a Pablo back-up / replacement and a Berardi replacement.
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Professor Weeto
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Professor Weeto » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:48 am

eric olthwaite wrote:
Phil LUFC wrote:I'd go to £25m and maybe include another £5m of add-ons (in the squad for the Euro's, we stay up, a percentage of profits from his next transfer). And maybe even a relegation buy back clause. I don't think this represents a great deal but as above there's a premium for knowing in advance he's a good fit with the squad.


Don't disagree with what you're saying as a general principle in relation to asset 'worth', but the wider issue is what percentage is spent on White as a part of what the club can afford to spend elsewhere. We need a striker, a Pablo back-up / replacement and a Berardi replacement.
.


The mood music coming out of the club seems to be that Bielsa doesn't want a Berardi replacement. Presumably happy to lean on Struijk and/or Casey. Whether you agree with that or not there's probably no point factoring that extra CB into any speculation.

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Mustafaster
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Mustafaster » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:59 am

eric olthwaite wrote:
Phil LUFC wrote:I'd go to £25m and maybe include another £5m of add-ons (in the squad for the Euro's, we stay up, a percentage of profits from his next transfer). And maybe even a relegation buy back clause. I don't think this represents a great deal but as above there's a premium for knowing in advance he's a good fit with the squad.


Don't disagree with what you're saying as a general principle in relation to asset 'worth', but the wider issue is what percentage is spent on White as a part of what the club can afford to spend elsewhere. We need a striker, a Pablo back-up / replacement and a Berardi replacement.
.

Yup.
We need two CB's , striker and cover at #10. Absolute minimum. Four Premier League players.

Thing is that footballers might be worth more to one club than another, for a few reasons. Depends on how badly you need someone in that position, who else is available, the budget ...
Personally I think White is worth more to us than to, say , Liverpool. Playing under Bielsa involves a steep learning curve and buying into the system, there's no guarantee a player is up for that, but we do know White is happy to do it. That makes him worth a bit more to us.
But we can't afford to blow too much of the budget because we need three more quality players.
Tricky.
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