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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:45 pm
by the flying pig
Yeboah wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:
the flying pig wrote:gray isn't really anything other than a placefiller at PL level, he's IMO proved that over the yrs, i'd be against a long-term deal. if fit though he could imo make a useful contribution to us this season.


Could easily offload him to another Championship contender next season, though, provided we don't go mad on the wages front. The £200m we get for going up, not to mention the QSI takeover, will render our currently debated payments in and out virtually meaningless.


No one gets 200m for going up. Bournemouth have been in the EPL for years and only turnover 140m, Burnley even less.


the £200m you occasionally see bandied about is i think a three-year total for tv money only, one season's full share + two seasons' worth of parachute payments assuming you go down right away.

but, yeah, it 'only' averages out at say £66m p.a. over those three years, and no doubt promotion would mean lots of payrise/bonus-type payments to past &/or present players, coaches, owners, creditors, etc etc so you can probably round that down comfortably south of £60m p.a. right away, + as we've seen without selling players our annual losses are [i think] in the eight-figure bracket... so, yeah, even if we went up, taking on a prime aged [ish] 'proven [shite imo] premier league player' would be a serious financial commitment, we'd only be able to bring in say half a dozen before starting to look over our shoulders a bit, andre gray should IMO certainly not be on of that half dozen, no way.

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:48 pm
by dirty leeds
the flying pig wrote:the £200m you occasionally see bandied about is i think a three-year total for tv money only, one season's full share + two seasons' worth of parachute payments assuming you go down right away.

but, yeah, it 'only' averages out at say £66m p.a. over those three years, and no doubt promotion would mean lots of payrise/bonus-type payments to past &/or present players, coaches, owners, creditors, etc etc so you can probably round that down comfortably south of £60m p.a. right away, + as we've seen without selling players our annual losses are [i think] in the eight-figure bracket... so, yeah, even if we went up, taking on a prime aged [ish] 'proven [shite imo] premier league player' would be a serious financial commitment, we'd only be able to bring in say half a dozen before starting to look over our shoulders a bit, andre gray should IMO certainly not be on of that half dozen, no way.


OK, fair enough. Happy to stand corrected. But there's still the QSI thing.

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:03 pm
by Yeboah
dirty leeds wrote:Alan Nixon on Twitter reckons we have made an offer to Hull re Bowen: £3m now to borrow him for the rest of the season, with an obligation to buy for a further £15m IF we go up.
If we don't, then he goes back to Hull as their player.
Bowen enters the last year of his contract at the end of this season and so far no Prem clubs have made an offer that has interested Hull.


Madness

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:06 pm
by LSD&2Es
So Eddie going nowhere from Arsenal, can we ask for the loan fee back as the reason for cutting it short can't have been to get him more first team minutes?!

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:15 pm
by Yeboah
Oheddieeddie wrote:
Phil LUFC wrote:Sell the best holding player in the division and play a CB out of position in his place. Inspired.

I don't see any real problems with Douglas, he was doing far better Vs Sheff Wed than Alioski did. I'd like to see more of Davis too but both Dallas and Alioski are good enough. We don't need another left back.


If KPs market value is circa £25m then this means that “proper football people” think he’s a VERY good player. We also think he is a VERY good player. Now Yeboah normally drones on about how “your typical football/Leeds fan” doesn't understand the realities of the game and what attributes make a player.

Here he argues against his stated mantra, against pros, supporters, and indeed practically everybody.

Some may say he’s s hypocrite
Some may say he’s a troll,
But the truth is he’s just not that bright really. Shame that.

I wouldn’t bother putting him straight or explaining that White is only now reaching his former levels since playing in midfield for KP last time, he will have trouble grasping it


No, it's just a factor of the wealth of the premier League and the age of the player.

If for example Bournemouth were to buy him for 25m that's the equivalent of us buying Bamford (% of turnover).

If Spurs bought him, that's the equivalent of us buying forshaw.

If scum bought him, that's the equivalent of buying Klich.

They could all have him on a 4 year deal and sell him after 3 and expect to get a good chunk back.

Of course, we don't know if any of the bids were serious.

It's all about what's better for the team overall. Would weakening that position by 10/20% to improve the striking options by 30+% make the team better?

I think it would.

You think differently, but we didn't go up last year and we won't go up this year unless something changes.

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:17 pm
by Yeboah
LSD&2Es wrote:So Eddie going nowhere from Arsenal, can we ask for the loan fee back as the reason for cutting it short can't have been to get him more first team minutes?!


As arsenal haven't had many games since he returned, how can you know if that's true or not?

PSG rumoured to be in for Laca, EN could be the backup plan

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:27 pm
by MightyWhite
dirty leeds wrote:Alan Nixon on Twitter reckons we have made an offer to Hull re Bowen: £3m now to borrow him for the rest of the season, with an obligation to buy for a further £15m IF we go up.
If we don't, then he goes back to Hull as their player.
Bowen enters the last year of his contract at the end of this season and so far no Prem clubs have made an offer that has interested Hull.


Interesting. £3m for a difference maker for rest of season seems fair. £15m for him in the summer? Can’t be far off right in the current market.

I’m in favour.

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:33 pm
by Bobbycollins
dirty leeds wrote:
the flying pig wrote:the £200m you occasionally see bandied about is i think a three-year total for tv money only, one season's full share + two seasons' worth of parachute payments assuming you go down right away.

but, yeah, it 'only' averages out at say £66m p.a. over those three years, and no doubt promotion would mean lots of payrise/bonus-type payments to past &/or present players, coaches, owners, creditors, etc etc so you can probably round that down comfortably south of £60m p.a. right away, + as we've seen without selling players our annual losses are [i think] in the eight-figure bracket... so, yeah, even if we went up, taking on a prime aged [ish] 'proven [shite imo] premier league player' would be a serious financial commitment, we'd only be able to bring in say half a dozen before starting to look over our shoulders a bit, andre gray should IMO certainly not be on of that half dozen, no way.


OK, fair enough. Happy to stand corrected. But there's still the QSI thing.


Everton average home gates of 39,000 and had turnover of £189m in the last accounts, of which total broadcast income was £130m, with £22.5m from live broadcasts of 19 games. They received £25m for finishing 8th. That last part aside, I think Everton's figures are more representative of the numbers Leeds could initially achieve in the Prem rather than a comparison with Bournemouth, who average 10,000 home attendances and aren't a prime TV draw.

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:48 pm
by Yeboah
MightyWhite wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:Alan Nixon on Twitter reckons we have made an offer to Hull re Bowen: £3m now to borrow him for the rest of the season, with an obligation to buy for a further £15m IF we go up.
If we don't, then he goes back to Hull as their player.
Bowen enters the last year of his contract at the end of this season and so far no Prem clubs have made an offer that has interested Hull.


Interesting. £3m for a difference maker for rest of season seems fair. £15m for him in the summer? Can’t be far off right in the current market.

I’m in favour.



Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:54 pm
by Quiffy
MightyWhite wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:Alan Nixon on Twitter reckons we have made an offer to Hull re Bowen: £3m now to borrow him for the rest of the season, with an obligation to buy for a further £15m IF we go up.
If we don't, then he goes back to Hull as their player.
Bowen enters the last year of his contract at the end of this season and so far no Prem clubs have made an offer that has interested Hull.


Interesting. £3m for a difference maker for rest of season seems fair. £15m for him in the summer? Can’t be far off right in the current market.

I’m in favour.

so we get him in to play right wing and replace the other right winger we've loaned for the year with a promise to buy for £15m? if it works it works, but this definitely seems like plan B regards that position.

i'd rather we focused on getting the new lee chapman anyway, as the bowen nonsense makes bielsa or orta look very fallible and is sure to be a marginal gain (even though that marginal gain may end up being massively significant if the end of last season is anything to go by) and i prefer to think of marcelo as inscrutable.

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:05 pm
by Yeboah
Sounding more and more like we aren't going to get anyone in due to FFP issues.

Smyth done a piece in YEP.

Gray, no
Bowen, no
Adams, no

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:45 pm
by LSD&2Es
Yeboah wrote:Sounding more and more like we aren't going to get anyone in due to FFP issues.

Smyth done a piece in YEP.

Gray, no
Bowen, no
Adams, no


No real evidence we are in for Bowen or Gray is there? Adams we know is down to their manager. How is that FFP related ?

More likely is the transfer dominoes haven't started falling yet, so the calibre of player we are in for isnt allowed to leave until the source club have a replacement in.

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:56 pm
by Yeboah
LSD&2Es wrote:
Yeboah wrote:Sounding more and more like we aren't going to get anyone in due to FFP issues.

Smyth done a piece in YEP.

Gray, no
Bowen, no
Adams, no


No real evidence we are in for Bowen or Gray is there? Adams we know is down to their manager. How is that FFP related ?

More likely is the transfer dominoes haven't started falling yet, so the calibre of player we are in for isnt allowed to leave until the source club have a replacement in.


No, bielsa specifically mentioned right player and in line with FFP in his presser today.

Translated means someone good and someone cheap!

Not an easy thing to do.

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:35 pm
by LSD&2Es
But that's not the reason we haven't got the players we want in, from what we've heard (albeit rumour), the offers we've made have been easily in the acceptable side for the selling clubs.

Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:40 pm
by Ontolly
Yeboah wrote:
LSD&2Es wrote:
Yeboah wrote:Sounding more and more like we aren't going to get anyone in due to FFP issues.

Smyth done a piece in YEP.

Gray, no
Bowen, no
Adams, no


No real evidence we are in for Bowen or Gray is there? Adams we know is down to their manager. How is that FFP related ?

More likely is the transfer dominoes haven't started falling yet, so the calibre of player we are in for isnt allowed to leave until the source club have a replacement in.


No, bielsa specifically mentioned right player and in line with FFP in his presser today.

Translated means someone good and someone cheap!

Not an easy thing to do.


I think the model suggested with the Bowen rumour seems viable. We have £3m to spend now and if we go up can pay a lot more. Win - win Shirley?

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:18 pm
by Yeboah
LSD&2Es wrote:But that's not the reason we haven't got the players we want in, from what we've heard (albeit rumour), the offers we've made have been easily in the acceptable side for the selling clubs.


Well, none have come in and we don't know actually what has been offered.

If they'd been acceptable, we'd have one by now.

Going into another game with one fit striker is criminal.

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:21 pm
by Yeboah
Ontolly wrote:
I think the model suggested with the Bowen rumour seems viable. We have £3m to spend now and if we go up can pay a lot more. Win - win Shirley?


You'd be happy to pay the thick end of 200k a week for an unproven player with potentially no return?

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:11 am
by Andymac-47
LSD&2Es wrote:But that's not the reason we haven't got the players we want in, from what we've heard (albeit rumour), the offers we've made have been easily in the acceptable side for the selling clubs.

This.

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:44 am
by Professor Weeto
Don’t see us going for Bowen, to be honest: scores a lot of goals but mostly plays on the right wing. Not exactly the Bamford alternative we need.

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:03 am
by Devi
Arguably a Costa alternative though

;-)