Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

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the flying pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby the flying pig » Thu May 23, 2019 4:04 pm

Ponte wrote:
welshwhite wrote:The mere fact that Poch of Spurs is Chasing after Clarke rather than Shacks, PJ, KP or any other fucker tells me that he's our most prized asset.

I'll be fucking gutted to lose him instead of water carrier KP.

Clarke is a player when on form gets you on the edge of the seat.

KP would be far more important to us in a promotion campaign. Only my opinion, mind.


i agree 100%.

clarke could be a very good player one day, i wouldn't be too surprised to see him pop up as [say] a midtable PL player at some point, but so far he's proved almost nothing, & his career could imo still go either way.

whereas kp is imo already a midtable PL player, outside the top 6 i think he could, on last yr's form, reasonably expect to start most weeks for most clubs, which is really saying something for a second tier player.

kp is much [5 years, c half a career] older, so, i mean, you're not really comparing like for like, but what cna be said is that he has reached a standard now that very few players do.

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sweeper
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:32 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby sweeper » Thu May 23, 2019 4:10 pm

Kalvin Phillips has been seriously undersold by some on this thread. Unlike Jack Clarke, he has played a full season and been top class, pretty much throughout.

A lot of what he does goes unseen, often having the oppositions most dangerous player in his pocket (for recent examples think Grealish, Duane Holmes etc) I'm not saying he man marks, but he just has a habit of taking the ball off people with a minimum of fuss, when they move into his area. Aligned with his outstanding distribution, he is our most prized asset in my view.

Clarke has potential for sure, but that is all it is for now, Phillips is tried and tested and is a proven, consistent , top level Championship performer, who looks destined for the Premier League with or without us.

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sebastianlovemonkey
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:21 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby sebastianlovemonkey » Thu May 23, 2019 4:17 pm

Mustafaster wrote:Radz can't say anything else.
If he goes around saying we're prepared to break the bank to sign players that will get us up every cunt will automatically put the price up 50% when we come calling.


This to an extent, I think there are a few reasons for Radz saying that. 1. Convincing Bielsa to stay 2. Convincing key players to stay. 3. Fending off unwanted bids. 4. Shifting the dead wood, starting with the returning loans and 5. the transfer window has been shortened and the loan extended window is gone. In short shit loads to to do in less time. If Bielsa stays. Radz and Victor will be busy boys either way.

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby jackos » Thu May 23, 2019 4:47 pm

sebastianlovemonkey wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:Radz can't say anything else.
If he goes around saying we're prepared to break the bank to sign players that will get us up every cunt will automatically put the price up 50% when we come calling.


This to an extent, I think there are a few reasons for Radz saying that. 1. Convincing Bielsa to stay 2. Convincing key players to stay. 3. Fending off unwanted bids. 4. Shifting the dead wood, starting with the returning loans and 5. the transfer window has been shortened and the loan extended window is gone. In short shit loads to to do in less time. If Bielsa stays. Radz and Victor will be busy boys either way.


Radz doesn't have a history of playing games with the press. If he says this will be a difficult summer in the transfer market then I fully expect it to be.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Yeboah » Thu May 23, 2019 5:17 pm

£15m for Clarke?

We will be lucky to get £5m

Rather sell more technically limited players.....for more money.

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Quiffy » Thu May 23, 2019 5:19 pm

someone stuck this up on twitter for debate yesterday, it was marmitey ..


he's on a free, but could he get fit enough for bielsa? he knew how to finish, has had a decent return in germany. he's said he'd love to come back in the past, if he could shift a few pounds and was willing to take a pay cut i think it could just work.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Yeboah » Thu May 23, 2019 6:01 pm

Quiffy wrote:someone stuck this up on twitter for debate yesterday, it was marmitey ..


he's on a free, but could he get fit enough for bielsa? he knew how to finish, has had a decent return in germany. he's said he'd love to come back in the past, if he could shift a few pounds and was willing to take a pay cut i think it could just work.


Agree 100%, especially compared to other squad options.

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
Location: Arse end of nowhere

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Blackwhite » Thu May 23, 2019 6:09 pm

I can see PMSL doggedly putting in a physical shift getting in behind right to the very last second. Just like I can see through lead.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

Mr Reality
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Mr Reality » Thu May 23, 2019 6:37 pm

Great let's sign somebody with a horrendous injury record.

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Tommy
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:07 pm
Location: UK

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Tommy » Thu May 23, 2019 7:35 pm

The trouble with selling Jack Clarke is we seem to be fairly poor at having money when we do get it. Of all our senior signings under the current admin, I would say only Klich and Roberts can be seen as unequivocal successes (and maybe someone would even debate those two). In another thread I did a quick mental inventory of our senior signings and loanees under AR/VO and it's uh, not so good on the whole? It's not awful either - we just finished third despite a long injury crisis - but I'd have hoped this expenditure of say, £35-40m would have gotten us more?

Buys

Bamford - £7m
Forshaw - £4.5m
Douglas - £3m
Saiz - £3m
Alioski - £2.5m
De Bock - £1.5m
Cibicki - £1.5m
Grot - £1.5m
Sacko - £1.5m
Ekuban - £500k
Wiedwald - £400k

Significant Wages/Loan Fees

Casilla
Harrison
Brown
Blackman
Baker
Anita
Pennington
Borthwick-Jackson
Ideguchi
Lonergan
Lasogga

Given that we did identify one very good target in Daniel James this season, I can only assume we've already had one of our 'even a stopped clock' moments this year. So yeah, might as well keep Clarke since he's contracted to us and then desperately try to flog all of the many average players we have still on the books so we only have to lose say, Pontus and/or Roofe rather than Kalvin.

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Oheddieeddie
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:35 pm
Location: Tacky with sweat and poisonous particulates.

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Oheddieeddie » Thu May 23, 2019 7:35 pm

PML. Yeah what Bielsa needs is a petulant 'fat' lazy arrogant injury-prone, selfish, workshy manbaby

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Tommy
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:07 pm
Location: UK

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Tommy » Thu May 23, 2019 7:42 pm

Soggy Pete is an interesting one. On the one hand, Bielsa's training would 100% kill him. On the other, it's not impossible to make a case that he's one of those slightly less than athletic players with other decent traits that Bielsa would never countenance but might actually improve us on the whole. Since it's obviously not happening for at least two very good reasons (Bielsa won't want him and he would die if he did come), it's hard to say for sure.

My memory is increasingly poor but perhaps someone can remind me whether I'm right that Diouf and Snoddy were both not necessarily the most mobile of players (though Snoddy much more so presumably?). Maybe Mowatt too? It might well be I am totally wrong about all of this but I can remember all three having periods where much of our creative play came through them despite never being particularly athletic. Whether a player of that sort would be any use to us now, in the modern Championship is anyone's guess. Perhaps Saiz is the closest we've had recently and even he had a fair burst of pace when it suited him.

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Quiffy » Thu May 23, 2019 8:18 pm

Tommy wrote:Soggy Pete is an interesting one. On the one hand, Bielsa's training would 100% kill him. On the other, it's not impossible to make a case that he's one of those slightly less than athletic players with other decent traits that Bielsa would never countenance but might actually improve us on the whole. Since it's obviously not happening for at least two very good reasons (Bielsa won't want him and he would die if he did come), it's hard to say for sure.

My memory is increasingly poor but perhaps someone can remind me whether I'm right that Diouf and Snoddy were both not necessarily the most mobile of players (though Snoddy much more so presumably?). Maybe Mowatt too? It might well be I am totally wrong about all of this but I can remember all three having periods where much of our creative play came through them despite never being particularly athletic. Whether a player of that sort would be any use to us now, in the modern Championship is anyone's guess. Perhaps Saiz is the closest we've had recently and even he had a fair burst of pace when it suited him.

part of my bias towards him is due to going to the burton game last year when he scored 2 and made it look easy. his power meant the defenders bounced off him and he was calm in front of the goal. it seems we need some experience in that position. get the fucker in the right positions, which is bielsa's main tactic and he could be very handy. then again, he'd need service, so we better not sell clarke to fund him.

in terms of fatties made good, just look at mowatt nowadays, the bloke should be advertising slimfast. it's not impossible.

*fair point about his dodgy injury record.
** does anyone have any stats about the peak age for goalscoring? off the top of my head, it's not a young man's game. chappy was 30? when he peaked. it's not a young man's game.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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AndyPaul
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:27 am
Location: Middlesbrough

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby AndyPaul » Thu May 23, 2019 8:42 pm

Oheddieeddie wrote:PML. Yeah what Bielsa needs is a petulant 'fat' lazy arrogant injury-prone, selfish, workshy manbaby


Well he was happy with the signing of Bamford (taking out the fat)

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Quiffy » Thu May 23, 2019 8:42 pm

regards peak age for strikers, a quick google hasn't been very productive but i did find this...

Ranked from the most to the least "age-sensitive" positions: Wide attacking midfielder, central attacking midfielder, full-back, central midfielder, striker, center-back, goalkeeper


and they suggested that a central defender doesn't start to decline until 31 or 32, which suggests a striker is in his prime goalscoring years around the age of 29 or 30.

from http://www.espn.co.uk/football/blog/tactics-and-analysis/67/post/3056495/soccer-age-curves-show-goalkeepers-and-central-defenders-peak-latest

soggy pete is currently 27. :shock:
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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Oheddieeddie
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:35 pm
Location: Tacky with sweat and poisonous particulates.

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Oheddieeddie » Thu May 23, 2019 9:46 pm

AndyPaul wrote:
Oheddieeddie wrote:PML. Yeah what Bielsa needs is a petulant 'fat' lazy arrogant injury-prone, selfish, workshy manbaby


Well he was happy with the signing of Bamford (taking out the fat)


Yeah I see Bammers more as the "cowardly lion' type

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby jackos » Fri May 24, 2019 6:12 am

And so it begins. Clarke is as good as gone, he just needs to pick a club and we have to agree a price.

Tottenham have launched a £10 million move for exciting Leeds United winger prospect Jack Clarke. The 18-year-old has been monitored by Premier League clubs throughout the season after a string of eye catching performances in the Championship.
Leeds can boast a number of exciting prospects in their squad but recognise, failing to achieve promotion, may necessitate some being sold to balance the books ahead of a fresh campaign.

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Tommy
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:07 pm
Location: UK

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Tommy » Fri May 24, 2019 6:22 am

£10m is a derisory offer. I'd be willing to bet he's worth considerably more if we keep him for one season.

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Ponte
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Between a rock and a hard place.

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Ponte » Fri May 24, 2019 6:33 am

Tommy wrote:£10m is a derisory offer. I'd be willing to bet he's worth considerably more if we keep him for one season.

Hopefully an opening offer and will be negotiated. £15m with a good sell on fee would be fine imho.
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Hmmm.

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: London

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby dirty leeds » Fri May 24, 2019 6:55 am

Yeah, if £10m is being reported, it'll go higher.


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