Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
Location: Arse end of nowhere

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:21 pm

I repeat: when ever have we been free of Critical Errors? Literally, ever?
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

Mr Reality
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby Mr Reality » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:25 pm

Just to be clear I'm referring to his football responsibilities.

What do you mean about representing himself?

To play devils advocate TC lost it on the touchline, used bad language in press conferences. Stuff like that?

If he comes in and gets more than TC and is able to install discipline then brilliant if not then ultimately he will go the same way.

As for the badge that was embarrassing but actually the early release has worked in their favour.

Don't get too wound up by the Leeds united new signing checklist it's meaningless. It's what they do on the grass that matters(assuming they are a reasonable human being).

Radrizanni is an improvement from bates and cellino particularly away from the football. So far the football side has a lot of room from improvement. The pace of that depends on how long Orta is around. Radrizanni is not the messiah many thought he was and their opinions are now shifting to save face.

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Tommy
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:07 pm
Location: UK

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby Tommy » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:31 pm

The fact that he's left his childhood club to come to Leeds suggests he's serious about progressing his career, which can only be good for us (unless he's very good and someone offers him a role further up the leagues, which is always a possibility). I'd be more disturbed if he hadn't had run ins with Leeds fans in his youth given where he was from.

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby Phil LUFC » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:08 pm

the flying pig wrote:
Phil LUFC wrote:No, they also have some form of DoF model, they were bought for him because their cheap spreadsheet version of moneyball told them to.


interesting.... i wonder what the barnsleh spreadsheet's version of billy bean's 'on base percentage' killer stat might have been :scratch: ?

I know someone who claims to know a bit about it, occasionally wrote stuff for west stand bogs, knows/knew someone at the club through his dad etc. The general gist of it is:
They absorb all sorts of available data, Opta type stuff, pass completion rates, key passes per game, assists, goals, strengths, weaknesses... which ultimately spits out some form of market value. Whenever a player is available at a price they can afford and below their market value (or with the potential to improve) they make their move. They've got stats on 1000s of players right down to regional conference level over 4-5 seasons and rarely sign anyone above a certain age (Matt Mills is the first player they've signed over 25 since Leroy Lita on a free in their last relegation season, which led to this rethink).

They got Mawson on a free transfer and sold him for £5m a year later, based on his stats while on loan at Wycombe (which presumably wasn't enough for Brentford to offer him a new deal). Hourihane cost them about £200k from Plymouth, sold for £3m+; Sam Winnal for very little from Scunny (though sold him for surprisingly little too); Marc Roberts free from Halfax, sold for £3m+... White and Mowatt were part of the next far less successful batch but quite easy to see why given what Mowatt cost them and the heights he hit here under Redders. White was worth a gamble in case his injury problems were over and hadn't destroyed him.

Apparently since the start of 2017 they've sold 4 club captains and the only 20+ goal a season striker they've had for many years without really replacing any of them, easy to see why PH had reached his limit. Says a lot really when a manager can win 1 in 16 and still have done enough to earn a new contract/still be considered the right man for the job. The off field shit with the dying owner, protracted takeover and breakdown of this recruitment system presumably the main reasons they've gone down hill.

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welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby welshwhite » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:14 pm

Its usually around this time of the evening that I have a nice relaxing mug of tea and reflect on the days happenings, a time to take in all that's been going on at the club.

My afterthought feelings now are, if I see PH wearing a club tracksuit with our badge on it, I will puke all over my new wooden flooring and send Radz and Orta the bill.

I've gone on all my social media accounts and read quite a few people disagreeing with some of my various points of view, I've just blocked the cunting lot of them.

I'm right, those clueless fuckers are all wrong.

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby Phil LUFC » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:40 pm

welshwhite wrote:Its usually around this time of the evening that I have a nice relaxing mug of tea and reflect on the days happenings, a time to take in all that's been going on at the club.

My afterthought feelings now are, if I see PH wearing a club tracksuit with our badge on it, I will puke all over my new wooden flooring and send Radz and Orta the bill.

I've gone on all my social media accounts and read quite a few people disagreeing with some of my various points of view, I've just blocked the cunting lot of them.

I'm right, those clueless fuckers are all wrong.

:mrgreen: Is there any stance you've not taken?

Munson
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:28 am

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby Munson » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:59 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:In other words, as long as doesn't look too EDL and his coat game's half decent, he'll do for me.


This is where TC lost it i agree.
The brown puffer jacket thing was effectice if lacking in style, but the move to done up Mac marked the start end for me.
That was his brolly if you like.

New bloke seems more like a tracky kind of bloke, which is fine, except I bet he chooses the design with the r*d crest which is just annoying.

Also why do we have a design with a r*d crest?

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby Phil LUFC » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:47 pm

I was oblivious to the red crest until I watched the LUTV interview. Fuck me, who commissioned that? Bloody awful.

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby Quiffy » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:59 pm

Phil LUFC wrote:I was oblivious to the red crest until I watched the LUTV interview. Fuck me, who commissioned that? Bloody awful.

just in case people think PH has instigated that it's been around all year, i've noticed it on some of the coaches and i think it's meant to be a dayglo orangey/peach. boring but true.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby Phil LUFC » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:03 pm

Quiffy wrote:
Phil LUFC wrote:I was oblivious to the red crest until I watched the LUTV interview. Fuck me, who commissioned that? Bloody awful.

just in case people think PH has instigated that it's been around all year, i've noticed it on some of the coaches and i think it's meant to be a dayglo orangey/peach. boring but true.

It's still an abomination.

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LSD&2Es
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Surrey

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby LSD&2Es » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:27 pm

So Heck favours a 4-4-2? What's that look like (for the next game and when everyone is fit?

Felix

Anita
Pennies
Pontus (seemed to be running OK in the video from training)
Bock

Alioski
Philips
Foreshaw
Pablo

Roofe/Roberts
Lasogga

When everyone is fit/available:

Felix

Beradi/Ayling
Cooper
Pontus
Bock

Alioski/Roofe
Viera/Philips
Foreshaw
Pablo/Dallas

Saiz
Lasogga/Roberts

Shame, I think there's legs in a 3-5-2 given the squad we have

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Vampire
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:19 am

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby Vampire » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:09 am

Mr Reality wrote:Good luck to PH with Orta about I suspect you will need it.


Sometimes though it is about a good fit and how key personnel work together within a given structure.

I was reading somewhere that PH quite recently asked Barnsley to appoint a recruitment specialist and likes the idea of working closely with such an individual. He also yesterday cited his initial conversations with Orta as positive and consistent with the way he wants to work (I know, I know, they all say that sort of thing, but it does seem consistent with what he asked for at Barnsley).

Many on here seem to view both PH and Ortega as individually disappointing, but if they do develop professional chemistry and work well together in a structure they like, the result may be greater than those individual parts.
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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sunshine whites
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby sunshine whites » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:23 am

welshwhite wrote: My afterthought feelings now are, if I see PH wearing a club tracksuit with our badge on it, I will puke all over my new wooden flooring and send Radz and Orta the bill.

you asked for it & just in case you missed it :shock:

Mr Reality
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby Mr Reality » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:59 am

Vampire wrote:
Mr Reality wrote:Good luck to PH with Orta about I suspect you will need it.


Sometimes though it is about a good fit and how key personnel work together within a given structure.

I was reading somewhere that PH quite recently asked Barnsley to appoint a recruitment specialist and likes the idea of working closely with such an individual. He also yesterday cited his initial conversations with Orta as positive and consistent with the way he wants to work (I know, I know, they all say that sort of thing, but it does seem consistent with what he asked for at Barnsley).

Many on here seem to view both PH and Ortega as individually disappointing, but if they do develop professional chemistry and work well together in a structure they like, the result may be greater than those individual parts.


I support the Dof model and it's now in place pretty much all over the country. Hopefully orta raises his game so far he hasn't inspired confidence.

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Ponte
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Between a rock and a hard place.

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby Ponte » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:00 am

DoF works very well if you have the right DoF. The jury is still very much out on Orta.
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Hmmm.

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby Phil LUFC » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:04 am

Thought I'd see what whoscored.com made of Barnsley this season:

Stengths:
None

Weaknesses:
Finishing scoring chances - Weak
Keeping possession of the ball - Weak
Defending counter attacks - Weak
Defending against attacks down the wings - Weak
Defending against long shots - Very Weak
Defending against skillful players - Very Weak

Barnsley's Style of Play:
Play with width
Take a lot of shots
Attacking down the right
Long balls
Attempt crosses often
Non-aggressive
Rotate their first eleven

Formation:
4141 (17)
442 (9)
433 (2)
4411 (1)
532 (1)

They say this about us:

Stengths:
Creating chances using through balls - Very Strong
Creating long shot opportunities - Strong
Finishing scoring chances - Strong
Counter attacks - Strong

Weaknesses:
Aerial duels - Weak
Avoiding individual errors - Weak

Leeds's Style of Play:
Take long shots
Attempt through balls often
Attacking down the right
Playing in their own half
Aggressive
Opponents play aggressively against them

Formation:
4231 (26)
433 (3)
442 (1)

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby Phil LUFC » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:07 am

If we can start taking lots of shots while still being good at finishing our chances we'll be alright and lets hope they were only shite at defending because they had crap players.

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topbin
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby topbin » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:07 am

Tommy wrote:Last year I binned off all my other social media apart from my Leeds-centric Twitter account


Christ. "I got rid of anything that could possibly be positive about social media and concentrated on definitely the worst bit."

Eddies Boots
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 5:07 am
Location: Arizona

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby Eddies Boots » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:13 am

Surprised it took so long to dump TC - but maybe Radz really wanted it to work, so gave him longer than he should.
This fella - I know nothing.
Hope for the best.

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: London

Re: Is Heckingbottom's brand of football good enough for Leeds United

Postby dirty leeds » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:30 am

topbin wrote:
Tommy wrote:Last year I binned off all my other social media apart from my Leeds-centric Twitter account


Christ. "I got rid of anything that could possibly be positive about social media and concentrated on definitely the worst bit."


Main thing is, Tommy is still on Squareball. We'll look after him. :thumbl:


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