One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

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Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby Yeboah » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:14 pm

Mr Reality wrote:
Yeboah wrote:
Mr Reality wrote:
If Taylor is an average championship left back then God knows what that makes our options.


The 2 things aren’t related though are they.

Team and business wise, if you flipped the transfer round and said you can have him back for £5m you’d have to be mental to sAy that was a good deal.

Option wise, why bring CBJ in and not play him, and for the trickier away games I’d play Cooper at LB.....or maybe even go 3 at the back and play more attacking wing backs with Jansson spare.

But consistently playing/picking the wrong/weaker players isn’t a good idea.

Manager has no idea.


They are linked, if you are trying to improve your squad when a player leaves to improve as a collective you need a better player in their place.

If we could get a player of Taylor's quality for 5m then we should be in there but we don't seem interested in players ready to go. Project signings and loan deals are the order of the day.

im giving the recruitment department the benefit of the doubt because if CBj was anything other than a last minute panic option then we won't be going anywhere.

As for cooper he played a few games at left back when he first arrived looked OK better than Warnock then again Warnock was stealing a living during this time here.


Well, no, no and no.

Opinion: Taylor never had quality, so that’s the wrong argument.

We could, with correct scouting, get a better replacement for free. The afore mentioned Alioski is probably worth a go too.

Taylor is massively overrated and in the end did us a favour with the fee.

The CBJ thing is puzzling though, I agree.

Mr Reality
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby Mr Reality » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:06 pm

Yeboah wrote:Nope but you’re welcome to any opinion you choose to have.

:lol:

Mr Reality
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby Mr Reality » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:09 pm

Taylor had enough quality to get signed by a premier league team.

Not sure it's worth continuing the discussion if you think a team can be improved by replacing players with inferior quality players. But as you put it you are welcome to any opinion you choose.

:thumbl:

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby jackos » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:20 am

Mr Reality wrote:Taylor had enough quality to get signed by a premier league team.


He was a cheap punt though, might make the grade, it he still hasn't started a PL game and has only made the squad in half their games. He's also 24, so no longer a promising kid, his best season was a couple of seasons ago. He'll probably end up being loaned back to the Championship to re-find his form - and staying there.

Mr Reality
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby Mr Reality » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:20 am

jackos wrote:
Mr Reality wrote:Taylor had enough quality to get signed by a premier league team.


He was a cheap punt though, might make the grade, it he still hasn't started a PL game and has only made the squad in half their games. He's also 24, so no longer a promising kid, his best season was a couple of seasons ago. He'll probably end up being loaned back to the Championship to re-find his form - and staying there.


But still he's at that level.

Had he not had injuries in pre season he probably would be playing now

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: London

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby dirty leeds » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:27 am

Can't believe we're still discussing how good/bad/indifferent Charlie Taylor is.

Wherever he rates on the scale, the only thing of real interest to me now is that we haven't replaced him with anyone as good and it needs sorting in Jan. Couldn't care less what a Burnley LB does unless we play 'em. [When we did and he played we beat 'em, so that was OK.]

Andymac-47
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:06 pm
Location: Belfast

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby Andymac-47 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:36 am

To sort of get back to the match.....
Did anyone else see Siaz brandishing an imaginary yellow after being fouled. I actually think he did it a couple times. I was sort of drunk and I am happy to be corrected if I was seeing things...but I don't like that shit...
Andymac

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: London

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby dirty leeds » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:45 am

Andymac-47 wrote:To sort of get back to the match.....
Did anyone else see Siaz brandishing an imaginary yellow after being fouled. I actually think he did it a couple times. I was sort of drunk and I am happy to be corrected if I was seeing things...but I don't like that shit...


He does it every match, mate. Needs to learn to say it English and do like all the other players do. We never notice them.

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sunshine whites
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby sunshine whites » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:08 am

dirty leeds wrote:Can't believe we're still discussing how good/bad/indifferent Charlie Taylor is.

Wherever he rates on the scale, the only thing of real interest to me now is that we haven't replaced him with anyone as good and it needs sorting in Jan. Couldn't care less what a Burnley LB does unless we play 'em. [When we did and he played we beat 'em, so that was OK.]


Simirlarly with Cook & Byram.
Mowatt appears to have dropped off the radar, may be injured

Then you look at the other departures, Green Bartley Bridcutt and Wood -So far those have not been replaced with equal or better players, except for Saiz, maybe Lasongga but all strikers need time to settle, good service and partner which he not getting.

The whole back line is still unfamiliar with each other, unsettled and lacking in confidence & cohesion, but they showed early they have potential - Pennington & Shaugnessy can only get better but against the better teams they are not there yet.
Unless we are top 2 and prepared some money on established wing backs, which I highly doubt, Coyle & Denton should be recalled in January and blooded

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby jackos » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:35 am

sunshine whites wrote: maybe Lasongga but all strikers need time to settle, good service and partner which he not getting.


Doubt it. No doubt he has talent, it earned him a 50K a week contract, but he seems yo have a really shit attitude. He was bloody awful against the blunts.

Even when Wood wasn't scoring it was obvious to most of us how important he was to the team, his positioning is excellent, he's powerful and wins possession all the time. Lasogga is massive unit but he can'r jump and he gives up much too easily.

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Tommy
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:07 pm
Location: UK

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby Tommy » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:47 am

sunshine whites wrote:Mowatt appears to have dropped off the radar, may be injured

Mowatt is starting on the left for Oxford these days. I gather he scored the winner a couple of matches back but his form has been hit and miss.

Coyle has been MOTM several times for Fleetwood and has been playing as a right-sided wingback. Denton was playing at left back and occasionally as a left-sided wingback for Port Vale but he's lost his place of late, which is frustrating.

For what it's worth, I still don't think our fullbacks or indeed, any particular player are the source of what ails us at the moment. I think we're trying to do something with players who can't realistically execute it - at least not consistently. TC needs to find another way for us to play (which I don't know if he can do and is very hard to achieve) or he's going to find himself under a lot of pressure quite soon. He's a really nice chap and I admire what he's tried to do but I don't think it's going to work in the Championship with these players.

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Mustafaster
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:02 am
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Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby Mustafaster » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:05 pm

Tommy wrote:
sunshine whites wrote:Mowatt appears to have dropped off the radar, may be injured

Mowatt is starting on the left for Oxford these days. I gather he scored the winner a couple of matches back but his form has been hit and miss.

Coyle has been MOTM several times for Fleetwood and has been playing as a right-sided wingback. Denton was playing at left back and occasionally as a left-sided wingback for Port Vale but he's lost his place of late, which is frustrating.

For what it's worth, I still don't think our fullbacks or indeed, any particular player are the source of what ails us at the moment. I think we're trying to do something with players who can't realistically execute it - at least not consistently. TC needs to find another way for us to play (which I don't know if he can do and is very hard to achieve) or he's going to find himself under a lot of pressure quite soon. He's a really nice chap and I admire what he's tried to do but I don't think it's going to work in the Championship with these players.

Yup.
TC is asking players to play a very fluid system and with the exception of Saiz and Pablo they're not up to it, at least not yet
We have huge distances between the lines, which makes the opposition's job much easier. They have space to knock little 5 yard passes around because they generally have a man in space.
We don't. Our midfield has the choice of passing back to the keeper or back 4, or attempting a 30 yard Hollywood pass.
We need to address this gap between the lines, tighten up.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

Yeboah
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby Yeboah » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:18 pm

Mr Reality wrote:Taylor had enough quality to get signed by a premier league team.

Not sure it's worth continuing the discussion if you think a team can be improved by replacing players with inferior quality players. But as you put it you are welcome to any opinion you choose.

:thumbl:


..but not be played by them, he can sit on the bench at any level.... I don’t think we have an inferior option to Taylor, now or then.

Players wise, I agree you want the best available players but football is a team game, with the aim to get the best/most efficient and coherent team on the pitch.

This sometimes means not picking the best 11 players but picking the best team....as a unit.

2 good examples:

The 2 best midfielders of their generation were arguably Lampard and Gerrard but England as a team were better when they weren’t played together, but instead paired with an ‘inferior’ player.

The Leeds team of the early 90’s included Peter Haddock at CB as a 1st team regular despite ‘better’ players being available in the position but his partnership with Courtney was the best ‘unit’.

Key thing is team dynamic not necessarily just the best 11 players.

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby Quiffy » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:00 pm

peter haddock was classy, the bloke was just injury prone.

anyhow, as i'd just bought sky sports for the month i actually watched the pre-match interviews and the one thing that came across about wilder was that his players seemed to fear him a bit, there were a couple of references to how 'he let you know' if he wasn't happy, said with eyes moving away from the camera as if to recollect a particular incident or two. in this day and age it was quite unusual to hear this and not how a manager manages difficult situations discreetly, the bloke is clearly a bit old school in this regard.

on the other hand we've got TC who seems to have a less authoritarian style, he seems to know what he wants and can communicate it but i don't think he's a tea cup smashing hair drying type. i don't want him out but it'll be interesting to see which works better in the long run and if wilder can hold his authority.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

Mr Reality
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby Mr Reality » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:12 pm

Yeboah wrote:
Mr Reality wrote:Taylor had enough quality to get signed by a premier league team.

Not sure it's worth continuing the discussion if you think a team can be improved by replacing players with inferior quality players. But as you put it you are welcome to any opinion you choose.

:thumbl:


..but not be played by them, he can sit on the bench at any level.... I don’t think we have an inferior option to Taylor, now or then.

Players wise, I agree you want the best available players but football is a team game, with the aim to get the best/most efficient and coherent team on the pitch.

This sometimes means not picking the best 11 players but picking the best team....as a unit.

2 good examples:

The 2 best midfielders of their generation were arguably Lampard and Gerrard but England as a team were better when they weren’t played together, but instead paired with an ‘inferior’ player.

The Leeds team of the early 90’s included Peter Haddock at CB as a 1st team regular despite ‘better’ players being available in the position but his partnership with Courtney was the best ‘unit’.

Key thing is team dynamic not necessarily just the best 11 players.


He had an injury hit pre season and his rival for the left back spot started the season well of course he's going to be on the bench. Judge him when he gets game time.

Football is a team game but there isn't a team who would pick any of the current left back options we have over Taylor and expect better results. You can think our current options are not inferior but I would worry for your sanity if you did. Opinions of Taylor are largely clouded after the hatchet job by monk. As I said at the time and Taylor said in the lead up to the cup game there are two sides to every story.

There is nothing efficient or coherent about having an unbalanced team which is what the current options provide.

The lampard Gerrard debate misses the bigger picture that the balance of the front 6 was never correct for England there were too many star names picked on reputation. England were still obsessed with 442 when nobody was playing it.

Mr Reality
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby Mr Reality » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:18 pm

Quiffy wrote:peter haddock was classy, the bloke was just injury prone.

anyhow, as i'd just bought sky sports for the month i actually watched the pre-match interviews and the one thing that came across about wilder was that his players seemed to fear him a bit, there were a couple of references to how 'he let you know' if he wasn't happy, said with eyes moving away from the camera as if to recollect a particular incident or two. in this day and age it was quite unusual to hear this and not how a manager manages difficult situations discreetly, the bloke is clearly a bit old school in this regard.

on the other hand we've got TC who seems to have a less authoritarian style, he seems to know what he wants and can communicate it but i don't think he's a tea cup smashing hair drying type. i don't want him out but it'll be interesting to see which works better in the long run and if wilder can hold his authority.


That's just football. Koeman was an authoritian at Everton making players wait to go dinner before the staff had been served. When you win it's brilliant management. When you lose its not good you need to be democratic.

Bayern went from the intensity of pep to the laid back ancelotti.

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby Quiffy » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:59 pm

Mr Reality wrote:
Quiffy wrote:peter haddock was classy, the bloke was just injury prone.

anyhow, as i'd just bought sky sports for the month i actually watched the pre-match interviews and the one thing that came across about wilder was that his players seemed to fear him a bit, there were a couple of references to how 'he let you know' if he wasn't happy, said with eyes moving away from the camera as if to recollect a particular incident or two. in this day and age it was quite unusual to hear this and not how a manager manages difficult situations discreetly, the bloke is clearly a bit old school in this regard.

on the other hand we've got TC who seems to have a less authoritarian style, he seems to know what he wants and can communicate it but i don't think he's a tea cup smashing hair drying type. i don't want him out but it'll be interesting to see which works better in the long run and if wilder can hold his authority.


That's just football. Koeman was an authoritian at Everton making players wait to go dinner before the staff had been served. When you win it's brilliant management. When you lose its not good you need to be democratic.

Bayern went from the intensity of pep to the laid back ancelotti.

you missed the point of the last paragraph, it's the longer term consequences that are going to be interesting.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

Mr Reality
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby Mr Reality » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:26 pm

Not really given that when Sheffield united change their manager they will bring in the opposite and the same will happen here. There is no definitive answer as to which is the superior method of management.

Benetiz got promoted last year is very strict. So did hughton who is more relaxed. Wagner went up who is very intense.

Different styles will always succeed that's the nature of football.

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby Quiffy » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:56 pm

Mr Reality wrote:Not really given that when Sheffield united change their manager they will bring in the opposite and the same will happen here. There is no definitive answer as to which is the superior method of management.

.

indeed. steve evans is doing alright at mansfield in't he.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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thestraw
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: One day 4 TOBY get into em Blunts CK

Postby thestraw » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:59 am

I still dont see what OKane brings to the party myself - a passenger 80%+ of the time for me; cant tackle, cant shoot, his passes are short and do not make any impact, he is not a leader in the middle. He's just too 'nice' that doesnt have any real impact in any game. Id have Viera and Philips in the there before him all day long, at least they put themselves about a bit. But we need a leader with experience in there - this division demands it. Like many in our first eleven - hes a squad player and i include alot of recent first teamers like Pennington, Cooper, Berardi, Longernan, Wieldwald, Roofe, Anita, Dallas - all squad players to step into the breach when we have injuries / suspensions and not good enough to be starting week in / week out for me. The squad needs more quality if we are progress any this year. What was blatantly obvious the last few weeks is how much we have missed the spine from last season - Green, Bartley, an in-form Jansson and Wood (one could even argue Bridcutt). Green Bartley and Wood have NOT been adequately replaced and that is our big problem, coupled with no leader in the centre of the park.
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