The State of US/World politics

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Vampire
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:19 am

Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Vampire » Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:18 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:
Bear in mind that Corbyn's ambiguous Brexit position ('all things are possible, we're listening') didn't fundamentally change between 2017 and 2019.


There was nothing ambiguous about it. He was a lifelong Eurosceptic who white-anted against his own Party’s position in the referendum and thereafter. And you supported him throughout (in part for reasons of misjudged electoral expediency rather than principle):

Vampire wrote:

eric olthwaite wrote:There's no question he'd lose seats with a Remain policy and I doubt he'd gain any


That is flatly contradicted by the polling evidence.


And even while he was stitching up the pre-election Labour conference to deny the majority in his party the pro Remain policy they wanted, you still remained a believer:

Vampire wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:At a strategic level, Corbyn is the closest of the three party leaders to making sense. It's clear that every possible route out of this diminishes both the economy and national politics, and 'Let the people decide' (both through a GE and a confirmatory final ref) has the potential to reduce harm to some extent.


What’s strategic about it? It’s another fudge/back room fix with Union leaders to head off his rank and file membership calling for a more pro Remain position at this week’s Conference.

Even if we overlook the stupidity of acquiescing in the Johnson/Cummins plan for a GE while Labour is 10 points behind in the polls - especially giving up the currently favourable make up of Parliament - Corbyn’s policy will unravel in an election campaign.

In an era of low attention spans, how do you explain such a convoluted policy against two much clearer and more straightforward alternatives: revoke and clean break respectively?

I pity Labour canvassers on the doorstep: “Our policy is that Jeremy’s going to go to Brussels to negotiate a much better deal, a “jobs first” Brexit...what’s that? ....err I’ll explain that later, and then he’s going to come back and you’ll get a vote on whether you like it or not in another referendum - and...vote on what? ...no, I can’t tell you what you’ll be voting on in that referendum because he hasn’t negotiated it yet and we can’t be sure of the outcome...will Corbyn endorse it?... no Jeremy won’t be giving any guidance on whether you should support the deal or not he’s going to leave it entirely up to you...but he does promise to honour the result..”

It’s hardly going to convince Leavers who will (wrongly) see it as a ruse to thwart the previous referendum, and it certainly won’t convince Remainers who will (rightly) see through a life long Eurosceptic trying to sneak Brexit past his pro Remain Party. And both sides have clearer and more attractive leave and remain options to vote for. It’ll be the Euro/local election all over again.

And even if he did win the election - why would the EU offer him a “cake and eat it” deal - all the benefits of the single market with none of the obligations? It’s delusional.


And even after he sank in the polls you continued to support his doomed electoral strategies:

Vampire wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:I guess I’m in favour because:
a) It’s now or never for Labour, they don’t have much choice. Better now than after Brexit.
b) Can’t see that it could get so much worse. Boris has no choice but to campaign on his deal so it either goes through or doesn’t go through. Like you say, can’t see him getting a majority.


It would be typically delusional of Corbyn to acquiesce in a GE.

YouGov polling 21 October: Con 37; Lab 22; Lib Dem 19; Brx 11.

Those numbers would most likely deliver a Conservative majority. The best Labour can hope for is a hung Parliament - but difficult to see how the Conservatives wouldn’t be comfortably the biggest party. It’s utter madness for Corbyn (and his devoted disciples) to even be considering it.

Not sure why you think a GE now is better for Labour than after Brexit is resolved. After Brexit is resolved they can shift the campaign agenda to austerity and some of their more populist policies. As opposed to fighting an election dominated by Brexit, upon which both the Conservatives and Lib Dems have policies far clearer and more appealing to polarised opinion than Labour’s conference stitch up fudge, and with a prevailing “let’s get it over with” sentiment in the air. Labour is heading for disaster in a GE dominated by Brexit.


And nowhere before the election have I seen you argue his fantasy manifesto was a disaster.

Now you come on here, in your typical wise after the event pretentious manner, a former dedicated disciple disowning his messiah at Easter, and say it’s the fault of the messenger you supported throughout rather than the message.

You’d be better off showing a bit of honesty and humility and admitting your colossal political misjudgement from the day you attempted to join the Party just so you could vote for him as Leader - a misjudgement that got you Brexit and a right wing Conservative Government.
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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Tommy
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Tommy » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:05 am

Vampire wrote:Your argument IIRC was about inequality (millionaires versus homeless).

What precisely is your moral argument on equality? Everyone should get exactly the same? From each according to means to each according to need? And who decides - potentially corrupt bureaucrats? Or does merit and contribution have an impact on just deserts?

And - regardless of your ideal model of distribution, how do you deal with production - ie that there will be far less to distribute to anybody - and therefore even more poverty - if incentive to strive and produce is removed?

As I said, ethics is complex.

This is your attempt to pose a moral argument as to why there should be billionaires (note - not millionaires) and homeless people in any self respecting society?

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Blackwhite
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:35 am

Tommy wrote:
Vampire wrote:Your argument IIRC was about inequality (millionaires versus homeless).

What precisely is your moral argument on equality? Everyone should get exactly the same? From each according to means to each according to need? And who decides - potentially corrupt bureaucrats? Or does merit and contribution have an impact on just deserts?

And - regardless of your ideal model of distribution, how do you deal with production - ie that there will be far less to distribute to anybody - and therefore even more poverty - if incentive to strive and produce is removed?

As I said, ethics is complex.

This is your attempt to pose a moral argument as to why there should be billionaires (note - not millionaires) and homeless people in any self respecting society?

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You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:45 am

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You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:36 pm

Oh, and this also made me lol

You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:58 pm

You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Blackwhite » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:21 pm

Americans, I feel for you I really do.

You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Terre Harte II
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Terre Harte II » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:42 pm

Blackwhite wrote:Americans, I feel for you I really do.



Don’t feel for us and don’t think this represents anything remotely close to a mainstream opinion. These idiots are an extreme minority getting outsized coverage because it’s sensational.

Are people getting tired of the stay-at-home orders? Yes. Is there some nonsensical selectiveness when it comes to what’s open and what isn’t? Sure. Do I think an entire society/economy can be shut down indefinitely as the medical experts say it should be, as if we’re all an experiment without consequences beyond the experiment? No, I don’t.

But the majority of people are still doing what needs to be done and, by now, most know someone who has had this and have had the fear of God put in them to not get it themselves.

The first wave caught every nation on Earth off-guard. The social distancing is absolutely neccessary to combat our vulnerability. It’s still too soon to back off of it. Personally? I’m more than OK with the curve-flattening measures for the first wave.

I’m not so sure I’ll be as patient for the second wave, though. It’s human nature to want to adapt to a situation, adverse or not.

When the inevitable second wave occurs, we won’t have the excuse of lack of preparedness like we did for this wave. We’d better be mass-producing tests, masks, ventilators, etc., to mitigate as best we can, the effect of the second wave when it comes so the disruption to life isn’t as profound.

It bothers me a bit that medical experts talk as if we’re in a vacuum on these matters, that the measures we definitely needed for the first wave will be apropos for the second. We should have time for the next time to get ready ... and we’d better use it wisely.

It’s important, because human nature to adapt goes hand-in-hand with human nature to only put up with sacrifice for so long.
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Blackwhite » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:42 pm

When I was watching Italy I was immediately thinking of New York and Hong Kong, because Density. I guess the happy part has been the relatively benign course in HK.

Didn't mean to patronise. Idiots funded by cunts is a potent brew here too, as you'll know.


When testing and habit/best practice is at its best, then let's face round two. Otherwise it will be the acquired immunity route, and lots more corpses. I suspect the world doesn't want to wait for a vaccine, so we will be distancing in some form for a long time. Or getting it.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

Eddies Boots
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Eddies Boots » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:41 am

From the beeb

The US relying on a dog breeder to battle Covid-19
US Health Secretary Alex Azar reportedly appointed a trusted aide who previously ran a dog-breeding business in Texas to lead the Department of Health and Human Services’ day-to-day response to coronavirus.

The aide, Brian Harrison, 37, had no experience in public health or medicine, reports Reuters.
Asked about this, Trump says: "I don't know about that."

Before joining the Trump administration Harrison ran a company called Dallas Labradoodles for six years, according to financial disclosures unearthed by Reuters news agency.
Five sources told Reuters that some officials in the White House derisively called him “the dog breeder".


First order for opening up again are tattoo parlours and bowling alleys
The president also noted he disagreed "strongly" with Georgia Governor Brian Kemp, a fellow Republican, who has decided to reopen some non-essential businesses.

"I told the governor very simply I disagree," Trump says, noting "safety has to predominate" in reopening the states.

"I think spas and beauty salons and tattoo parlours and barber shops - in phase one [of reopening] is just too soon."

The president added: "But at the same time I want him to do what he thinks is right.”

Kemp, a Trump ally, on Monday announced Georgia would allow gyms, bowling alleys, nail salons and massage therapists to open on Friday. In-person church services can resume.

Restaurants and cinemas can also open.
His order also prohibited cities from imposing their own restrictions on businesses.

This last piece is just the Governor being a cunt on behalf of Trump.
If the mayor of Atlanta feels that is too broad for relieving lockdown restrictions they can go to court and/or fuck themselves.
I think he is just pandering to the Trump supporters on Trump's behalf, because Trump saying - small "no", but YES DO WHAT YOU WANT - its what all the other governors made me say.

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Mustafaster
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Mustafaster » Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:42 am

Eddies Boots wrote:From the beeb

The US relying on a dog breeder to battle Covid-19
US Health Secretary Alex Azar reportedly appointed a trusted aide who previously ran a dog-breeding business in Texas to lead the Department of Health and Human Services’ day-to-day response to coronavirus.

The aide, Brian Harrison, 37, had no experience in public health or medicine, reports Reuters.
Asked about this, Trump says: "I don't know about that."

Before joining the Trump administration Harrison ran a company called Dallas Labradoodles for six years, according to financial disclosures unearthed by Reuters news agency.
Five sources told Reuters that some officials in the White House derisively called him “the dog breeder".


First order for opening up again are tattoo parlours and bowling alleys
The president also noted he disagreed "strongly" with Georgia Governor Brian Kemp, a fellow Republican, who has decided to reopen some non-essential businesses.

"I told the governor very simply I disagree," Trump says, noting "safety has to predominate" in reopening the states.

"I think spas and beauty salons and tattoo parlours and barber shops - in phase one [of reopening] is just too soon."

The president added: "But at the same time I want him to do what he thinks is right.”

Kemp, a Trump ally, on Monday announced Georgia would allow gyms, bowling alleys, nail salons and massage therapists to open on Friday. In-person church services can resume.

Restaurants and cinemas can also open.
His order also prohibited cities from imposing their own restrictions on businesses.

This last piece is just the Governor being a cunt on behalf of Trump.
If the mayor of Atlanta feels that is too broad for relieving lockdown restrictions they can go to court and/or fuck themselves.
I think he is just pandering to the Trump supporters on Trump's behalf, because Trump saying - small "no", but YES DO WHAT YOU WANT - its what all the other governors made me say.

Standard innit.
That's been his M.O. for a while, now.
James O'Brian has a great metaphor for this.
You toss a coin, shout, "heads", then "tails", and claim victory when it lands.
" I am in total control, but it's up to the states ".
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Devi
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Devi » Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:51 am

Blackwhite wrote:When I was watching Italy I was immediately thinking of New York and Hong Kong, because Density. I guess the happy part has been the relatively benign course in HK.

Didn't mean to patronise. Idiots funded by cunts is a potent brew here too, as you'll know.


When testing and habit/best practice is at its best, then let's face round two. Otherwise it will be the acquired immunity route, and lots more corpses. I suspect the world doesn't want to wait for a vaccine, so we will be distancing in some form for a long time. Or getting it.


The spread of Covid19 is affected by two primary factors:
1. How dense the population is
2. How dense the population is.
I like it. What is it?

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Terre Harte II
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Terre Harte II » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:35 pm

So I just sat down for a nice lunch. Had a ham sandwich. Some potato chips with a fine dip.

And I chased it down with a snifter of Lysol with a Drano chaser. Now, I'm sunning out on my deck after having opened up my chest cavity with a pen knife, per Dr. Trump.

Once you burn off your taste buds and reduce your throat to open sores and reservoirs of various strengths of base liquids interacting with one another? Lysol ain't bad. Tastes like chemicals and encroaching doom, but it's still better than Coors Light.

Pros: I don't have coronavirus. I don't have any diseases at all. This shit is fucking great! I'm flattening the curve like a bowss. See you in hell, seasonal allergies!

Cons: My tongue is the color of our change kit. A bit of pink accent, but mostly dark gray and ashen. I don't have any skin left in my esophagus. I'm bleeding profusely from my chest cavity, though on the upside, the sunlight is causing it to congeal quicker. I technically register on the periodic table of elements.

More cons: I am having hallucinations about a Lovecraftian version of Ken Bates eating the East Stand so he can subsequently shit out a hotel on the same site. When asked why he didn't eat the older West Stand, Lovecraftian Bates said, "What windfall of lucre have all of those executive boxes brought to me recently? Fuck all. Slaggers off, all of them. They can eat runny eggs at my 10-pound continental breakfast at the Dennis Wise Memorial Motor Lodge Sponsored By Ken Bates." Also, death just offered to play me in chess. I offered to play Stratego instead. He didn't seem particular.

Thanks Dr. Trump!
The artist formerly known as Terre Harte I. Occasionally posts Nolans videos.

Something-something here about Massimo Cellino, beer and refrigerators.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Blackwhite » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:19 pm

THII is dead. Long live THIII.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

Professor Weeto
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Professor Weeto » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:09 am

This seems perfectly sensible and normal:


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Blackwhite
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Blackwhite » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:16 pm

Low expectations, but still. Sakes, America.



Don't try doing this while black.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

Eddies Boots
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Eddies Boots » Fri May 01, 2020 3:05 am

Well that's the infamous Michigan Militia - should not expect much else from them - they do like a good photo op and have done for decades.

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jackos
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby jackos » Fri May 01, 2020 5:24 am

Eddies Boots wrote:Well that's the infamous Michigan Militia - should not expect much else from them - they do like a good photo op and have done for decades.


The view that folks in the US might accept armed right wing thugs invading a Government building, while tens of thousands of health workers are laid off in the middle of a pandemic, and Trump is dishing out trillions of dollars to his mates in industry as "normal," says a lot about US culture.

Imagine the reaction if the militia had been black or bearded middle eastern guys. :cry:

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Blackwhite
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Blackwhite » Fri May 01, 2020 6:27 am

Exactly.

Last group who got to do that were the Panthers, and when I say "got to do that" I mean "got shot in their bed".
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Mustafaster
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Mustafaster » Thu May 07, 2020 11:50 am

From time to time I check out the USA media coverage of Trump and how they are reacting to the pandemic as a country.
Obviously amazed at the general levels of stupidity of so many of our ex-colonial cousins, goes without saying, but there's stupid everywhere to be fair. They certainly don't hold a monopoly on stupid, but American stupids tend to shout louder than others.

Anyway ...

I have recently started to notice the prevalence of what can only be described as Stepford Wives on American telly and in the White House communications cohort.
They're all made with the same mould. Slim, blonde, white, early middle age, conventionally attractive, well-turned-out, with the politics of Atilla the Hun.
Any of our American friends care to enlighten us on why this is the case?
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.


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