eric olthwaite wrote:
Bear in mind that Corbyn's ambiguous Brexit position ('all things are possible, we're listening') didn't fundamentally change between 2017 and 2019.
There was nothing ambiguous about it. He was a lifelong Eurosceptic who white-anted against his own Party’s position in the referendum and thereafter. And you supported him throughout (in part for reasons of misjudged electoral expediency rather than principle):
Vampire wrote:eric olthwaite wrote:There's no question he'd lose seats with a Remain policy and I doubt he'd gain any
That is flatly contradicted by the polling evidence.
And even while he was stitching up the pre-election Labour conference to deny the majority in his party the pro Remain policy they wanted, you still remained a believer:
Vampire wrote:eric olthwaite wrote:At a strategic level, Corbyn is the closest of the three party leaders to making sense. It's clear that every possible route out of this diminishes both the economy and national politics, and 'Let the people decide' (both through a GE and a confirmatory final ref) has the potential to reduce harm to some extent.
What’s strategic about it? It’s another fudge/back room fix with Union leaders to head off his rank and file membership calling for a more pro Remain position at this week’s Conference.
Even if we overlook the stupidity of acquiescing in the Johnson/Cummins plan for a GE while Labour is 10 points behind in the polls - especially giving up the currently favourable make up of Parliament - Corbyn’s policy will unravel in an election campaign.
In an era of low attention spans, how do you explain such a convoluted policy against two much clearer and more straightforward alternatives: revoke and clean break respectively?
I pity Labour canvassers on the doorstep: “Our policy is that Jeremy’s going to go to Brussels to negotiate a much better deal, a “jobs first” Brexit...what’s that? ....err I’ll explain that later, and then he’s going to come back and you’ll get a vote on whether you like it or not in another referendum - and...vote on what? ...no, I can’t tell you what you’ll be voting on in that referendum because he hasn’t negotiated it yet and we can’t be sure of the outcome...will Corbyn endorse it?... no Jeremy won’t be giving any guidance on whether you should support the deal or not he’s going to leave it entirely up to you...but he does promise to honour the result..”
It’s hardly going to convince Leavers who will (wrongly) see it as a ruse to thwart the previous referendum, and it certainly won’t convince Remainers who will (rightly) see through a life long Eurosceptic trying to sneak Brexit past his pro Remain Party. And both sides have clearer and more attractive leave and remain options to vote for. It’ll be the Euro/local election all over again.
And even if he did win the election - why would the EU offer him a “cake and eat it” deal - all the benefits of the single market with none of the obligations? It’s delusional.
And even after he sank in the polls you continued to support his doomed electoral strategies:
Vampire wrote:eric olthwaite wrote:I guess I’m in favour because:
a) It’s now or never for Labour, they don’t have much choice. Better now than after Brexit.
b) Can’t see that it could get so much worse. Boris has no choice but to campaign on his deal so it either goes through or doesn’t go through. Like you say, can’t see him getting a majority.
It would be typically delusional of Corbyn to acquiesce in a GE.
YouGov polling 21 October: Con 37; Lab 22; Lib Dem 19; Brx 11.
Those numbers would most likely deliver a Conservative majority. The best Labour can hope for is a hung Parliament - but difficult to see how the Conservatives wouldn’t be comfortably the biggest party. It’s utter madness for Corbyn (and his devoted disciples) to even be considering it.
Not sure why you think a GE now is better for Labour than after Brexit is resolved. After Brexit is resolved they can shift the campaign agenda to austerity and some of their more populist policies. As opposed to fighting an election dominated by Brexit, upon which both the Conservatives and Lib Dems have policies far clearer and more appealing to polarised opinion than Labour’s conference stitch up fudge, and with a prevailing “let’s get it over with” sentiment in the air. Labour is heading for disaster in a GE dominated by Brexit.
And nowhere before the election have I seen you argue his fantasy manifesto was a disaster.
Now you come on here, in your typical wise after the event pretentious manner, a former dedicated disciple disowning his messiah at Easter, and say it’s the fault of the messenger you supported throughout rather than the message.
You’d be better off showing a bit of honesty and humility and admitting your colossal political misjudgement from the day you attempted to join the Party just so you could vote for him as Leader - a misjudgement that got you Brexit and a right wing Conservative Government.