The State of US/World politics

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Blackwhite
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:54 am

Yeah, maybe. Maybe not, if he sacks Mueller and the outcry is big enough. He will also try to pardon his way out of it, wants to pardon himself if it's allowed (it isn't).


Fun times. When I was there in May he'd just fired Comey, and every TV I passed was a source of great comedy to me and embarrassment to the septics. This is gonna be even better :P
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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jackos
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby jackos » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:24 pm

This is great :mrgreen: :queen: :joker2:

Donald Trump Jr schooled on Twitter after Halloween 'socialism' tweet

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... lism-tweet

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Blackwhite
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Blackwhite » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:51 pm

Similarly enjoyed this thread, in a quieter way.


You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Blackwhite » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:02 pm

Man lays it out again:
a shorter thread...

You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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sunshine whites
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby sunshine whites » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:48 pm

JJ

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the flying pig
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby the flying pig » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:56 am

any thoughts on the zimbabwe situation?

i have a little firsthand experience of the place, since as a newish graduate i briefly worked on a project out there during our glorious BAROMETER run.

i suppose i always suspect that old Bob gets a *slightly* unfair press over here. both the flaws of his regime & [especially] the virtues of the one that preceded it seem to be routinely overstated in our press. yer old colonial types are still very influential.

but, still, the issues that get reported are mostly real enough, there's no doubt that things many things over there are a mess.

suppose i can't see the outlook being much better under a new zanu person.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:26 pm

the flying pig wrote:any thoughts on the zimbabwe situation?

i have a little firsthand experience of the place, since as a newish graduate i briefly worked on a project out there during our glorious BAROMETER run.

i suppose i always suspect that old Bob gets a *slightly* unfair press over here. both the flaws of his regime & [especially] the virtues of the one that preceded it seem to be routinely overstated in our press. yer old colonial types are still very influential.

but, still, the issues that get reported are mostly real enough, there's no doubt that things many things over there are a mess.

suppose i can't see the outlook being much better under a new zanu person.


For as much as I understand it, it seems the military coup was primarily to ensure that DisGrace gets nowhere near the presidency. In terms of small steps forward, that alone seems like a good thing?

the flying pig wrote:i suppose i always suspect that old Bob gets a *slightly* unfair press over here. both the flaws of his regime & [especially] the virtues of the one that preceded it seem to be routinely overstated in our press. yer old colonial types are still very influential.


Yeah, I get that there's a certain bitter irony about Western governments getting their knickers in a twist over the 'theft' of white-owned farms when that isn't entirely dissimilar to what happened in reverse a couple of hundred years back.

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Mustafaster
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Mustafaster » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:33 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:
the flying pig wrote:any thoughts on the zimbabwe situation?

i have a little firsthand experience of the place, since as a newish graduate i briefly worked on a project out there during our glorious BAROMETER run.

i suppose i always suspect that old Bob gets a *slightly* unfair press over here. both the flaws of his regime & [especially] the virtues of the one that preceded it seem to be routinely overstated in our press. yer old colonial types are still very influential.

but, still, the issues that get reported are mostly real enough, there's no doubt that things many things over there are a mess.

suppose i can't see the outlook being much better under a new zanu person.


For as much as I understand it, it seems the military coup was primarily to ensure that DisGrace gets nowhere near the presidency. In terms of small steps forward, that alone seems like a good thing?

Back in the day I studied Politics at Leeds.
About the only decent part of the course was International Relations.
We had some fine lecturers, especially on S America, N Korea and Southern Africa.

Way off the pace these days, but it looks like musical chairs at the top of Zanu/PF.
The old guard who participated in the armed struggle won't have Grace under any circumstances.
I wouldn't build up any hopes that the next lot of Zanu PF bosses will be any better than Mugabe, mind. They're cut from the same cloth.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Vampire
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Vampire » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:05 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:Yeah, I get that there's a certain bitter irony about Western governments getting their knickers in a twist over the 'theft' of white-owned farms when that isn't entirely dissimilar to what happened in reverse a couple of hundred years back.


Not sure why you put the word theft in inverted commas there as the word seems to accurately depict what did actually occur.

As for a couple of hundred years back, there's no doubt that colonial powers such as Britain did plunder economic resources from the countries they colonised and treated the inhabitants shamefully. But that no more justifies Mugabe's land grabs from white farmers than it would, say, the descendants of Anglo Saxons or Celts deciding today they are justified in dispossessing the descendants of the Norman conquerors in Britain. So, a silly point from you, Oaf, albeit one that is typical of you.
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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Vampire
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Vampire » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:18 pm

the flying pig wrote:any thoughts on the zimbabwe situation?

i have a little firsthand experience of the place, since as a newish graduate i briefly worked on a project out there during our glorious BAROMETER run.

i suppose i always suspect that old Bob gets a *slightly* unfair press over here. both the flaws of his regime & [especially] the virtues of the one that preceded it seem to be routinely overstated in our press. yer old colonial types are still very influential.

but, still, the issues that get reported are mostly real enough, there's no doubt that things many things over there are a mess.

suppose i can't see the outlook being much better under a new zanu person.




Mugabe's ZANU PF Governments have ruined the Zimbabwean economy. It was one of the most prosperous economies in Africa when he took over. His theft of productive farms decimated a once successful agricultural sector; his wreckless money printing to fund fairyland policies created hyperinflation and economic collapse. He kept power through persecution, repression, corruption, and vote rigging - driving many with economic talent or potential into exile. Zimbabweans are significantly poorer today than they were in 1980 despite the country's natural resources.

I guess if Mugabe has achieved anything it is to remind the rest of the World just how quickly bad Government policy can ruin an economy. I suspect most folks don't believe that a change of Government can have that big an impact on economic prosperity. It might impact individual prosperity at the margin, eg, higher or lower taxes for some or better or worse job prospects for others, but GDP per head of the main economies doesn't seem to change that much relative to one another over time. So, folks become complacent about the danger. But, even though a good Government is unlikely to significantly raise economic prosperity - certainly in the short term - a bad Government can certainly ruin it in very short order. Mugabe is a good example of how real the danger is.

Funnily enough, of all the advanced economies, the one that can learn most from this lesson is the UK. The reckless Brexit vote followed by the possibility of Corbyn leading the next Government points to a country sleep walking towards economic disaster.
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:30 am

Anglo-Saxons? You utter fucking melt. Colonial power structures were in place in 1978, in living memory, and you actually just used that as an analogy.

Only a bellend from a racist redneck shithole which only gave its own indigenous people citizenship in 1967 would put a line that fucking retarded in writing.

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Vampire
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Vampire » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:54 am

eric olthwaite wrote:
Vampire wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:Yeah, I get that there's a certain bitter irony about Western governments getting their knickers in a twist over the 'theft' of white-owned farms when that isn't entirely dissimilar to what happened in reverse a couple of hundred years back.


Not sure why you put the word theft in inverted commas there as the word seems to accurately depict what did actually occur.

As for a couple of hundred years back, there's no doubt that colonial powers such as Britain did plunder economic resources from the countries they colonised and treated the inhabitants shamefully. But that no more justifies Mugabe's land grabs from white farmers than it would, say, the descendants of Anglo Saxons or Celts deciding today they are justified in dispossessing the descendants of the Norman conquerors in Britain. So, a silly point from you, Oaf, albeit one that is typical of you.


Anglo-Saxons? You utter fucking melt. Colonial power structures were in place in 1978, in living memory, and you actually just used that as an analogy.


:lol:
A predictably volcanic response. It was you, however, that used colonial actions "a couple of hundred years back," (NOT those under "colonial power structures" in 1978), to justify theft of farms from white owned farmers - who were a long way from being born "a couple of hundred years back." It was a stupid justification as you'll probably concede privately when you calm down and reflect upon it.
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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Mustafaster
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Mustafaster » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:32 am

Vamps giving us all a lesson about a country that he's never been to and whose language he doesn't speak again.
How lucky we are.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:52 am

There you go again, creating your little straw men. I did not 'justify' the theft of white farms. TFP noted, in his post, the inability of Western commentators to look at Mugabe with any sort of balanced perspective. I agreed about this failure, noting that the thefts needed to be understood in context. Noting context is not the same as justification.

You said that the history was irrelevant, in equating it to the Norman conflict a thousand years ago. That's because you're a fucking idiot.

You're welcome.

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Vampire
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Vampire » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:59 am

Mustafaster wrote:Vamps giving us all a lesson about a country that he's never been to and whose language he doesn't speak again.
How lucky we are.


If you're only allowed to comment on geo political events that you've actually lived through a lot of historians would be out of work, wouldn't they. :roll:

Seriously Musta, you really are making the dumbest of zombie arguments there. I say "zombie" because it's one of those arguments that, despite it's obvious fallibility, somehow refuses to die. It just keeps popping up particularly in Internet debates: "you can't know what you're talking about because you've not been there." As if Mao's opinions on the economic merits of the "Great Leap Forward" are more valid than mine because he was there and I wasn't. It takes a special kind of stupidity to think that is a rational argument.
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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Vampire
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Vampire » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:28 am

eric olthwaite wrote:There you go again, creating your little straw men. I did not 'justify' the theft of white farms. TFP noted, in his post, the inability of Western commentators to look at Mugabe with any sort of balanced perspective. I agreed about this failure, noting that the thefts needed to be understood in context. Noting context is not the same as justification.



Well, it sounded like a justification (even putting the word theft in inverted commas)........

eric olthwaite wrote:Yeah, I get that there's a certain bitter irony about Western governments getting their knickers in a twist over the 'theft' of white-owned farms when that isn't entirely dissimilar to what happened in reverse a couple of hundred years back.


You certainly appear to be having a dig at Western Governments for criticising the theft, no sorry "theft," of white-owned farms. Why do you think what happened "a couple of hundred years earlier" is in any way relevant to such criticisms of Mugabe's land grabs if it's not because you see the first as some sort of justification for the second? Surely it isn't relevant at all - Western Governments are right to criticise the theft, sorry "theft," of white owned farms irrespective of what happened 200 years earlier. So why do you even mention the history if you're not trying to make a typically silly political point?
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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Mustafaster
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Mustafaster » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:37 am

Vampire wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:Vamps giving us all a lesson about a country that he's never been to and whose language he doesn't speak again.
How lucky we are.


If you're only allowed to comment on geo political events that you've actually lived through a lot of historians would be out of work, wouldn't they. :roll:

Seriously Musta, you really are making the dumbest of zombie arguments there. I say "zombie" because it's one of those arguments that, despite it's obvious fallibility, somehow refuses to die. It just keeps popping up particularly in Internet debates: "you can't know what you're talking about because you've not been there." As if Mao's opinions on the economic merits of the "Great Leap Forward" are more valid than mine because he was there and I wasn't. It takes a special kind of stupidity to think that is a rational argument.

Seriously Vamps, you must be able to understand that your opinion on this is worth diddley squat.
You only have second hand opinions to base yours on.
It takes some kind of narcissist to think that their opinion is valid when they have no first hand knowledge.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Blackwhite » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:45 am

Some kind of narcissist...



Ding ding ding ding ding....
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Vampire
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Vampire » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:45 am

Mustafaster wrote:
Vampire wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:Vamps giving us all a lesson about a country that he's never been to and whose language he doesn't speak again.
How lucky we are.


If you're only allowed to comment on geo political events that you've actually lived through a lot of historians would be out of work, wouldn't they. :roll:

Seriously Musta, you really are making the dumbest of zombie arguments there. I say "zombie" because it's one of those arguments that, despite it's obvious fallibility, somehow refuses to die. It just keeps popping up particularly in Internet debates: "you can't know what you're talking about because you've not been there." As if Mao's opinions on the economic merits of the "Great Leap Forward" are more valid than mine because he was there and I wasn't. It takes a special kind of stupidity to think that is a rational argument.

Seriously Vamps, you must be able to understand that your opinion on this is worth diddley squat.
You only have second hand opinions to base yours on.
It takes some kind of narcissist to think that their opinion is valid when they have no first hand knowledge.


Well, I tried to explain to you why your "zombie" argument was so irrational - but you've just dug up the same corpse again. I guess there's always some folks incapable of getting it even after it's been pointed out.

I look forward to you resurrecting this zombie every time any one else on here gives an opinion on any geo political event they've had no "first hand knowledge of" (including presumably every geo political event from before their birth), not to mention being similarly restrained yourself. Good luck with that.
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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Mustafaster
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Re: The State of US/World politics

Postby Mustafaster » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:53 am

It's perfectly possible to have an opinion on something you have no first hand knowledge of if you've put the hard yards in and studied it in some depth over a period.
I somehow get the impression that this isn't the case here.
I spent a year studying Southern Africa at university many moons ago, and spent three years on the exec of Yorks and Humberside Anti Apartheid, but I'm happy to admit my knowledge of the current situation is out of date, at best sketchy.
Even so I'd bet your mortgage I know more than you
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.


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