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Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:36 pm
by Blackwhite
Interesting perspective thread


Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:48 pm
by eric olthwaite
In all this discussion of the rights and wrongs of the RLB sacking, I do think it’s important to note that: a) she does come across as a bit of a twat and b) her eyes are too close together and she’s got a massive arse.

Still not sure about sacking though.

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:17 pm
by The Tin Man
God knows how RLB retweeting "“The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.” can be construed as anti-semitic. It might be untrue but it's not anti-semitic. What is true is the continuing systematic brutalisation of Palestinians by the Israeli army and by a number of settlers and what is also true is that Israel plans to annex more of the West bank including the Jordan valley commencing on July 1st under Trump's "peace " plan. No-one is denying that there are anti-semitic tropes circulating - the obsession with George Soros being one and that there are some who conflate Israel with all Jews but it is becoming harder and harder to criticise Israel . I have even heard people say "you have no right to criticise Israel without criticising other countries. Singling Israel out is anti-semitic." Sacking RLB just strengthens Israel's hand just a bit further and fucks over the Palestinians just that little bit more.

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:25 pm
by The Tin Man
Just seen this https://www.independent.co.uk/independe ... 85126.html . So belonging to BDS or supporting its aims is now construed as anti-semitic.

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:09 am
by Eddies Boots
The Tin Man wrote:Just seen this https://www.independent.co.uk/independe ... 85126.html . So belonging to BDS or supporting its aims is now construed as anti-semitic.


Devi had this in December - I had not heard of it before, which is why i remembered it from here.

Devi wrote:Apparently, BDS is anti-Semitic, and soon to be illegal.


Supporting the Palestinians is just not acceptable under BoJo and Trump.
Neither believe in freedom of speech/thought, so its no surprise they would try to outlaw this under the guise of anti-semitism, and from that set the precedent for blocking other pro-Palestinian discussion.
Though I am sure they would say that they just oppose this group for their published views.

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:58 am
by jackos
I know very little about the BDS but this statement on their website does seem to be contradicted by the existence of a boycott list

BDS campaigns target the Israeli state because of its responsibility for serious violations of international law and the companies and institutions that participate in and are complicit in these Israeli violations. The BDS movement does not boycott or campaign against any individual or group simply because they are Israeli.


Isn't that exactly what they are doing when they encourage people to boycott anything produced in Israel, or any company that does business with Israel because they are considered complicit in violations of Palestinian rights? They seem to be saying "if you are Israeli or do business with Isreal you are guilty". Now that might be the case in their opinion, but why then claim you are not campaigning against individuals simply because they are Israeli? I've not met a pro-palestinian campaigner who did not hate Israelis, just as I have never met a Kurd who doesn't loath Turks, or a Turk who doesn't loath Kurds.

BDS could easily be defined as anti-semitic, or do you mean it isn't because it's not against 'Jews' only against the existence of Isreal?

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:21 am
by Eddies Boots
That statement implies they are against corporations of any nationality that are involved in supporting the suppression of a Palestinian state.
Opposing the expansion of Israel is considered anti-Zionist, I think - not anti-semitic. It used to mean the destruction of Israel, but I believe it has a more nuanced meaning now (except maybe in Iran). Some word-wise people will be along later to correct this.
But that would be 2 ideas for Trump and others to hold in their heads at one time.

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:12 am
by Mustafaster
Eddies Boots wrote:That statement implies they are against corporations of any nationality that are involved in supporting the suppression of a Palestinian state.
Opposing the expansion of Israel is considered anti-Zionist, I think - not anti-semitic. It used to mean the destruction of Israel, but I believe it has a more nuanced meaning now (except maybe in Iran). Some word-wise people will be along later to correct this.
But that would be 2 ideas for Trump and others to hold in their heads at one time.

Israel has been very clever in conflating any defence of Palestinian rights and antisemitism.
The two things are now effectively the same thing, sadly.

I see that they are doing their usual trick of using a global crisis to steal more land whilst people's attention is elsewhere.
Annexing large parts of the West Bank atm.
Saying that of course makes me an antisemite, no better than Goering.

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:45 am
by jackos
Mustafaster wrote:Israel has been very clever in conflating any defence of Palestinian rights and antisemitism.
The two things are now effectively the same thing, sadly.


I don't think it's just Israel. Iran, as Eddie wrote, along with the rhetoric used by many other Arab and Persian states has played a role as well. Most Israeli Jews do military service, for many many years that has put them in direct confrontation with Palestinians and that has created a lot of hate on both sides. Opinion in the region and internationally is so polarised that it does not give either side a lot to room for manoeuvre or negotiation. Arab and Persian dictators use Palestine in their power games, in the same way the USA has used Israel to extend it's influence in the region. Palestinians living in neighbouring countries still have no citizenship rights, despite neither they nor their parents ever having set foot in Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian rights and antisemitism have been made the same thing because a lot of anti-Semites, anti-Zionists (thanks Eddie), and Zionists have and continue to use the suffering or radicalisation of the Palestinian people to achieve their own goals. Leaders on both side of the argument have too much to win by prolonging the situation.

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:50 am
by welshwhite
Mustafaster wrote:Saying that of course makes me an antisemite, no better than Goering.


He was not really known as an antisemite, he was just a drugged up airplane enthusiast.
Maybe you are thinking of goebbels?
There were quite a few nazi cunts well known for it other than Goering.
hitler, eichmann, heydrich, himmler. etc.

I studied history in Cardiff Uni for two years :thumbl:

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:08 am
by Mustafaster
welshwhite wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:Saying that of course makes me an antisemite, no better than Goering.


He was not really known as an antisemite, he was just a drugged up airplane enthusiast.
Maybe you are thinking of goebbels?
There were quite a few nazi cunts well known for it other than Goering.
hitler, eichmann, heydrich, himmler. etc.

I studied history in Cardiff Uni for two years :thumbl:

I bow to your superior knowledge, Welsh.
You are of course correct.

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:45 am
by welshwhite
Mustafaster wrote:I bow to your superior knowledge, Welsh.
You are of course correct.


Stick around, I'm always keen to teach others new things :thumbl:

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:22 am
by Ontolly
welshwhite wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:I bow to your superior knowledge, Welsh.
You are of course correct.


Stick around, I'm always keen to teach others new things :thumbl:

A real role model. You put me in mind of my uncle Tecwyn who unfortunately died in awful circumstances. If only we had known his blood type :cry:

Yet despite this he remained inspirational right up to the end. I remember his last words to me. "Be positive" :salute:

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:34 pm
by Matt White
Ontolly wrote:
welshwhite wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:I bow to your superior knowledge, Welsh.
You are of course correct.


Stick around, I'm always keen to teach others new things :thumbl:

A real role model. You put me in mind of my uncle Tecwyn who unfortunately died in awful circumstances. If only we had known his blood type :cry:

Yet despite this he remained inspirational right up to the end. I remember his last words to me. "Be positive" :salute:


"You selfish boy" :mrgreen:

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:40 pm
by Matt White
Luckily for the entire world we have that master statesman and son in law Jared Kushner to sort it all out for us :bounce:

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:24 am
by Mustafaster
Interview with John Major on R4 ...
Fuck me, the bloke is light years, light years ahead of the shower you have in office atm.
Just basic human decency, a willingness to listen and learn and moderate intelligence turns out to be enough.
How low we have fallen.

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:03 am
by eric olthwaite
Mustafaster wrote:Interview with John Major on R4 ...
Fuck me, the bloke is light years, light years ahead of the shower you have in office atm.
Just basic human decency, a willingness to listen and learn and moderate intelligence turns out to be enough.
How low we have fallen.


I also think that post-career politicians have nothing to lose; they can be thoughtful and reflective without needing to consider how it might play with voters / colleagues / donors etc.

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:58 pm
by Devi
Except Blair

He can’t say anything without voters frothing at the mouth.

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:02 pm
by Mustafaster
Devi wrote:Except Blair

He can’t say anything without voters frothing at the mouth.

And Cameron, and May, and Boris ... when he goes.

Re: The state of UK politics

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:11 pm
by eric olthwaite
Devi wrote:Except Blair

He can’t say anything without voters frothing at the mouth.


Well, yes, I guess it might help if he stopped constantly talking bollocks.