The state of UK politics

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Bobbycollins
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Bobbycollins » Fri May 29, 2020 7:12 am

With a majority of 80, does it really matter how parliament votes, or even sits? Isn't it more a case of Johnson issuing decrees and the tabloids deciding on whether they are accetable?

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Fri May 29, 2020 7:15 am

Boris Johnson isn't fit to lead. The actual fucking Spectator - Mary W. and all - now steaming in.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Fri May 29, 2020 7:15 am

Bobbycollins wrote:With a majority of 80, does it really matter how parliament votes, or even sits? Isn't it more a case of Johnson issuing decrees and the tabloids deciding on whether they are accetable?

100 rebels and counting. Bloody noses possible.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

Professor Weeto
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Professor Weeto » Fri May 29, 2020 7:17 am

Bobbycollins wrote:With a majority of 80, does it really matter how parliament votes, or even sits? Isn't it more a case of Johnson issuing decrees and the tabloids deciding on whether they are accetable?


You’re right that they’ll win most votes anyway but I think it’s more about the fact they’re avoiding scrutiny. The current setup is not perfect but many more MPs are currently able to participate, ask questions etc than under the proposed ‘plan’ (which essentially seems to boil down to turning a load of monitors off).

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Mustafaster
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Mustafaster » Fri May 29, 2020 7:19 am

Bobbycollins wrote:With a majority of 80, does it really matter how parliament votes, or even sits? Isn't it more a case of Johnson issuing decrees and the tabloids deciding on whether they are accetable?

Pretty much.
Boris is much more President than Prime Minister.
All that guff about The Sovereignty of Parliament, eh?
This is part of a very slow coup.
Bit by bit Parliament and cabinet government is being stripped down.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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jackos
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby jackos » Fri May 29, 2020 7:45 am

Johnson stuck by his man and appears to have weathered the storm, I doubt that will do him any hard in the long or even medium term. Speaking to folks back home I also get the impression that Johnson is following through on some of the promises he made to the North of England during the election, which, if the projects come to pass, has to be commended. Labour has been promising to invest in the North of decades, and has failed to delivered. I know two people who lost jobs due to cutbacks in the banking secotr who are now working on the finances for Government projects that will benefit the North of England, work also seems to be continuing on projects in preparation for leaving the EU.

Everything isn't bleak, even if it hurts me to write anything positive about a Tory :shock: :mrgreen:

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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Professor Weeto » Fri May 29, 2020 7:58 am

jackos wrote:Johnson stuck by his man and appears to have weathered the storm, I doubt that will do him any hard in the long or even medium term. Speaking to folks back home I also get the impression that Johnson is following through on some of the promises he made to the North of England during the election, which, if the projects come to pass, has to be commended. Labour has been promising to invest in the North of decades, and has failed to delivered. I know two people who lost jobs due to cutbacks in the banking secotr who are now working on the finances for Government projects that will benefit the North of England, work also seems to be continuing on projects in preparation for leaving the EU.

Everything isn't bleak, even if it hurts me to write anything positive about a Tory :shock: :mrgreen:


What projects are you referring to (not having a dig; genuinely interested to know)?

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jackos
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby jackos » Fri May 29, 2020 8:13 am

Professor Weeto wrote:What projects are you referring to (not having a dig; genuinely interested to know)?


They're not allowed to discuss them at the moment, I just know that they wouldn't be in work today, especially with Cv19, if it was not for investment in the civil service jobs in West Yorkshire to work planning and costing the government investment/projects.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Fri May 29, 2020 8:13 am

Fuck sake jackos, look at the shiny toys. The basic working principle of contemporary conservatism is to reduce operational expense (police, social care, NHS, education) whilst chucking a bit of public money - capital expense - into shiny projects which are delivered privately. Everyone makes a quick buck, gets a New Thing, move on to the next project. The point about capital expense is that it’s a short term, one off commitment you can still provide whilst lowering taxes.

In the 80s / early 90s under the Tories I worked on Housing Action Trusts where we generated proposals for deprived council estates in Lewisham and Deptford. We had to go ask the tenants what they wanted under the guise of pseudo-consultation. Time and again we got the same responses: we don’t want roof insulation or new flower beds; we want youth workers, social workers, more GPs in the surgery.

‘Investing in the North’ is exactly the same bullshit game, now, to stop you looking at the structural underfunding. Yeah, one day there’ll be an HS2/3 station in Leeds, but you won’t be able to afford to get on it.
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jackos
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby jackos » Fri May 29, 2020 8:17 am

eric olthwaite wrote:‘Investing in the North’ is exactly the same bullshit game, now, to stop you looking at the structural underfunding. Yeah, one day there’ll be an HS2/3 station in Leeds, but you won’t be able to afford to get on it.


Basic stuff Eric. These people would be unemployed today, struggling to sell their homes due to cv19, and potentially living in bedsits if this investment had not happened. Previous governments were closing offices, this one is investing. That is the facts I have, I will hold judgement on the projects until I have more info.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Fri May 29, 2020 8:31 am

I'm not sure that 'I once talked to someone with a job' would qualify as a critique of government policy for me, but whatever.
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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Fri May 29, 2020 8:45 am

Crace with yesterday's sketch.

Yesterday I wrote that the best way to understand the state the country is in was to consider it a banana republic. I’d meant it as a joke, but at the Downing Street press conference , Boris Johnson went out of his way to prove me right. The UK’s very own dictator might not have much of a reputation left to protect, but Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance most certainly did.

Yet to save what now passes for his career, Boris went out of his way to trash the reputations of both the chief medical officer and the chief scientific adviser. Just as unbelievably, a plainly terrified Whitty and Vallance just stood there and took it. If either had a smidgeon of self worth, both would have walked out once the questions began.


It seems that many people have been making simple category errors with Boris. They have assumed that Dominic Cummings’s understudy has an intelligence and morality to compromise. That’s why more than 70% of the country had said that Johnson should do the right thing and sack his special adviser for breaking the guidelines and undermining the government’s public health message.

Yet the evidence all points to something more disturbing. That beyond an ability to recite the odd Latin phrase, Boris is actually quite dim. Worse still he is totally amoral. So the very idea of him doing the right thing is a complete non-starter.

Right from the start of the briefing, Boris set out to gaslight the entire nation. Things were great. Improving rapidly. So he was now in a position to re-announce some easing of the lockdown measures that he had already announced during the previous week.


Sure it might be a bit of a risk, as the track and trace programme wouldn’t be properly up and running properly till the end of June. But hey! The weather was nice and everyone deserved a break. And he really appreciated the sacrifices that everyone had been making so that Dom and his family could take a well-earned day out to Barnard Castle.

Even Whitty and Vallance appeared slightly taken aback by Johnson’s bullish optimism. Matt Hancock might have found it hysterically funny that the UK now had the worst death rate in the world during an interview with Kay Burley on Sky, but they both thought the situation was basically a bit shit and that we were a long way behind most other European countries.


It was when the questions started coming in that Boris went full psycho failed state. Given this was the first time that the CMO and CSA for England had been allowed out in public since Cummings’ moonlight flit to Durham had come to public notice, most journalists were keen to know if Whitty and Vallance endorsed Classic Dom’s course of action during the end of March and the first two weeks of April. But before either had a chance to speak, Boris effectively silenced them. They wouldn’t be commenting on this, he said, before preventing Laura Kuenssberg from asking a follow-up question by muting her.

Almost every other journalist had similar questions. And each time Boris either ignored them or just repeated that Whitty and Vallance couldn’t get involved in political issues. It’s possible that both men had only agreed to stand alongside the Great Dictator on the proviso they were allowed to say nothing. If so that was a huge mistake on their part, because reputations that had taken decades to build were shredded in a matter of minutes.


The whole point was that the scientific and the political have become entwined, not least because Laughing Boy had chosen to make it so. And the questions the scientists were being asked were matters of scientific judgement. Would they recommend doing what Classic Dom had done? Was that the public health message they wanted to put out to the country? Yet under a lot of pressure from Boris – you can add bullying to his character defects – they both played dumb. Better to have refused to prop up Boris than to have been used as mugs.

Whitty and Vallance weren’t even allowed to answer a basic question of whether they would recommend a 50-mile round trip with your child in the back of the car as a good way of checking if your eyesight was fit to drive. That was about as straightforward a scientific yes or no question as you could get. But still they didn’t dare say a word.

Other pressers have been tetchy and opaque, but this one had been a new low. Boris hadn’t demeaned himself because there’s nothing left to demean. But he had demeaned his CMO and CSA and he had demeaned the UK by treating its citizens with total contempt. In saving Dom, he has ruined what was left of his credibility. And all across the country, Tory MPs and Tory voters were beginning to ask themselves one simple question. Ever get the feeling you’ve been had?
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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jackos
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby jackos » Fri May 29, 2020 8:57 am

eric olthwaite wrote:I'm not sure that 'I once talked to someone with a job' would qualify as a critique of government policy for me, but whatever.


Oh please fuck off Eric. You are stuck in your little bubble on the South Coast and you work in London, you do not have a fucking clue what it is like to be looking for work in Bradford. These are real people and real jobs. That is what people want. Not promises.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Fri May 29, 2020 9:32 am

jackos wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:I'm not sure that 'I once talked to someone with a job' would qualify as a critique of government policy for me, but whatever.


Oh please fuck off Eric. You are stuck in your little bubble on the South Coast and you work in London, you do not have a fucking clue what it is like to be looking for work in Bradford. These are real people and real jobs. That is what people want. Not promises.


Fuck off yourself jackos, you're a lot further from Bradford than I am. FWIW my practice is currently working on a regeneration project in Bradford city centre. We're there, talking to people.

What I'm saying is just that the 'I know this bloke' school of anecdote is a shit approach to questioning whether economic policy is working.
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Ontolly
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Ontolly » Fri May 29, 2020 9:54 am

eric olthwaite wrote:
jackos wrote:Oh please fuck off Eric.

Fuck off yourself jackos,


I'm sure I speak for others when I state that this is the kind of aggression and fighting that is going to chase potential posters away :thumbd:

Two reports in one post - you cunts make me fucking sick
The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter was that his name wasn't Henry Porter.

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Devi
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Devi » Fri May 29, 2020 9:58 am

Back to matters intellectual:



:lol:
I like it. What is it?

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Mustafaster
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Mustafaster » Fri May 29, 2020 10:12 am

Devi wrote:Back to matters intellectual:



:lol:

:lol: :salute:
That's really very good indeed.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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dirty leeds
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby dirty leeds » Fri May 29, 2020 10:15 am

Ontolly wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:
jackos wrote:Oh please fuck off Eric.

Fuck off yourself jackos,


I'm sure I speak for others when I state that this is the kind of aggression and fighting that is going to chase potential posters away :thumbd:

Two reports in one post - you cunts make me fucking sick


Oh, do fuck off, Ontolly. I'll fuck off too, if that's OK?

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Vampire
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Vampire » Fri May 29, 2020 10:37 am

dirty leeds wrote:I'll fuck off too, if that's OK?


That’s OK.
:mrgreen:
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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dirty leeds
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby dirty leeds » Fri May 29, 2020 10:42 am

Vampire wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:I'll fuck off too, if that's OK?


That’s OK.
:mrgreen:


:D


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