eric olthwaite wrote:Vamps 'Labour should commit to Remain' argument is utter bollocks (once again).
Suppose Labour did just that and there was a GE. The only possible result would be a massive Tory majority, possibly with some BXP seats, as Leavers abandon Lab / Lib Dems and the Remain vote splits. Hey presto, insta No Deal and further privatisation of everything.
You said that before the Local and Euro elections, and I pointed out the polling evidence to the contrary:
Vampire wrote:eric olthwaite wrote:There's no question he'd lose seats with a Remain policy and I doubt he'd gain any
That is flatly contradicted by the polling evidence.
Since then, that polling evidence has been confirmed by real results in the Local and European elections. Labour suffered the worst results for the official Opposition in living memory - and against a shambolic mid term Government.
So, you’re flying in the face of overwhelming polling evidence. And the electoral logic really is quite simple. Labour voters are overwhelmingly Remain. Even in so called “Labour Leave” seats the majority of Labour voters voted Remain (Leave got over the line with Conservative/UKIP votes). So, it’s just common sense that Labour has far more to lose by not backing Remain.
You say the Remain vote is split. It is split precisely because Labour keeps adopting pro Brexit fudges to satisfy its Eurosceptic Leader. Before the Local and Euro elections the Lib Dems were a totally discredited party polling mid single digits. Your messiah Corbyn has raised them from the dead like Lazarus. Persisting with a “jobs first” Brexit won’t win back those lost voters - if anything the exodus will increase. Nor will it appeal to Leave voters with a far clearer alternative to vote for. It is another electoral disaster waiting to happen.
But leaving aside the common sense electoral logic and polling evidence, Labour would also be seen as more authentic as a pro Remain Party campaigning for what it believes in - rather than trying to spin a convoluted fudge for (wrongly) perceived electoral gain. And its activists would be more motivated to go out knocking on doors and delivering leaflets.
I can understand Corbyn himself not wanting a pro Remain position because he is a lifelong Eurosceptic. But for Remainers like you, Oaf, to blindly follow your hero over a cliff in the face of overwhelming evidence simply beggars belief.
Fortunately, not all Labour Remainers are quite so dumb judging by the number of resolutions for a pro Remain position pouring in for next week’s conference. Sadly, I fear Corbyn will head this off with another backroom fix with the Union Leaders who control 50% of the votes. But fair play to those Labour Remainers for trying - they get it even if you don’t - and I wish them well for the conference. Anyone on here going?