The state of UK politics

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Devi
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Devi » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:23 am

Why? When you clearly won't ever stop playing the easy stereotype, rather than give an intelligently formed, balanced and pertinent opinion.

I'd ask what your problem is, but frankly, I couldn't give a fuck.
I like it. What is it?

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Vampire
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Vampire » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:59 am

Devi wrote:Why? When you clearly won't ever stop playing the easy stereotype, rather than give an intelligently formed, balanced and pertinent opinion.

I'd ask what your problem is, but frankly, I couldn't give a fuck.


You’ve lost me there, mate. You seem to be running a different reel in your head to the one called reality.

If there’s something I’ve posted you’ve somehow interpreted as offensive, and you’d consistently apply the same criticism to similar posts by others, let me know what it is and explain clearly why it’s so disagreeable.

Otherwise, like you, I couldn’t give a fuck about your problem either - or indeed about your prejudice.
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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Mustafaster
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Mustafaster » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:15 pm

What has that scamp Aaron Banks been up to?
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:00 pm

Mustafaster wrote:What has that scamp Aaron Banks been up to?
Arron this week...

I might write to him later and tell him how much I'm going to enjoy reading about him getting shanked in prison.

The fat fucking mess.



Take your Russian and Sith Effrican money, shove it, and fucking die. And take Wiggy with you.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:27 pm


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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:05 pm


Pigeons a-wing, then...


Hope they ask about the pendrive...
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:45 am

Near-perfect in its verisimilitude.


You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:25 am

Really interesting session of the DCMS / fake news committee right now, Elizabeth Denham saying the investigation is unprecedented in its nature, given the national stakes and the foreign interference ... clear evidence of non-academic Russian access to the Facebook data Cambridge Analytica held, by the same actors who had mounted raids on data nodes previously, i.e. "bad actors" handled the data in question.

Denham is kinda alright'n'all.

Hilarious mention of the EU GDPR regs making some of this protected in future. Lolz.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:32 pm

You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:53 pm

An eventful day, then. Endgame possibly beginning for May.

You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Devi
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Devi » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:58 pm

Bet yer bottom dollar the one to ones are going along the lines of 'if you quit we're fucked as a party and it'll be your fault'. Given the lily livered nature of the lot of them, I fully expect none to do the decent thing, the 'deal' to rumble back to Westminster, or of course, back to the EU, who can be handily and similarly 'blamed' for its demise.
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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:34 pm

I'm beginning to like the idea of voting this down, triggering a leadership crisis and general election fought presumably by the Tories on a "give us the mandate to go no deal" under some new headbanger leader, and hopefully by Labour on a "well, we've waited and this is shit, let's vote again on No Deal vs. No Brexit".


I have had a beer or two, for clarity.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Vampire
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Vampire » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:59 pm

Blackwhite wrote:I'm beginning to like the idea of voting this down, triggering a leadership crisis and general election fought..........by Labour on a "well, we've waited and this is shit, let's vote again on No Deal vs. No Brexit.


You’ve obviously not been listening to your long time Eurosceptic mate Comrade Corbyn repeating again last week that Brexit won’t be reversed.....

Corbyn declares Brexit can’t be stopped

In an interview with Germany’s Der Spiegel, extracts of which were published today, Corbyn was asked if he would stop Brexit if he could because the U.K. is so divided.

“We can’t stop it,” he said. “The referendum took place. Article 50 has been triggered. What we can do is recognize the reasons why people voted Leave.”

“I think a lot of people have been totally angered by the way in which their communities have been left behind. We had high Leave votes in the most left-behind areas of the country. In a lot of deprived areas, working conditions have deteriorated over the decades, protected by European legislation.”
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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Rambo the randy pig
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Rambo the randy pig » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:14 pm

Man on the news talking about Brexit mentioned a status quo period.
I asked my wife if that meant you got whatever you want.
She didn't laugh. I thought it was funny.

Yeboah
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Yeboah » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:25 am

Rambo the randy pig wrote:Man on the news talking about Brexit mentioned a status quo period.
I asked my wife if that meant you got whatever you want.
She didn't laugh. I thought it was funny.


Genius!

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:30 pm

This assessment of the Brexit deal from Stephen Bush in the NS seems, to me, pretty realistic:

Good morning. Theresa May has reached a deal-in-principle with the EU27 (pending the approval of member states at a special summit, pencilled in for 25 November). What's in it? The full document is not yet available but we know that there are at least two provisions that make the chances of it passing the Houses of Parliament look very, very thin. The first relates to the Irish border, which contains a measure of regulatory and customs alignment for the whole of the United Kingdom to maintain the status quo at the Irish border, but crucially contains a deeper level of alignment for Northern Ireland than the rest of the United Kingdom. That is unacceptable to the DUP so you can strike ten votes off the government's majority right off the bat, three more than the seven needed to eliminate the Conservative-DUP majority.

The deal also contains a number of shared provisions on state aid, taxation, labour market and environmental regulation that make it unacceptable to hardline Brexiteers in the Conservative Party and the committed Leavers in the parliamentary Labour party. (The key problem for that latter group are the restrictions on state aid.) So you can scratch off the names of a few more Conservative Brexiteers. By my count, at least seven Conservative Brexiteers are already on the record objecting to the deal in language that makes it near-impossible to see how they will vote for the deal.

Most of the media focus is on whether or not Theresa May can survive, with coverage of possible Cabinet resignations ranked into losses that the Prime Minister cannot survive (starts with "Michael", ends with "Gove") and those that she can weather (Penny Mordaunt and Esther McVey). It's true that Downing Street regards Gove as the Cabinet minister above all that they cannot afford to lose. But it's also true - and just as important - that as far as votes in the House of Commons, the government is already in a near-impossible position. Add any names from people currently on the frontbench to the list of dissenters and that position moves from "near-impossible" to just plain old "impossible".

That has implications for the chances of Labour MPs breaking the party whip to bail out Theresa May's deal. Many of their number want to avert a No Deal Brexit and worry that voting against May's deal will trigger one, and others are worried what will happen to them if they get on the wrong side of your constituents on Brexit.

But of course, Labour MPs in these two groups can count just as well as the rest of us, and they know full well that there aren't enough of them to plausibly outnumber all the nailed-on Tory rebels. They know, too, that the subtext of the message coming from the leader's office media outriders is that a vote for May's deal will be painted as a vote that prevents a certain general election and a Labour government. Added to all that, that Boris Johnson, who is still a trusted figure among Leave voters even in Labour seats, will also be voting against the deal makes it easier for them to believe that they will be safe electorally voting against it.

There are some Labour MPs whose local parties are as worried about their Leave problem as they are and can resist all of that - but the thing about this group is that it is nowhere near big enough to cancel out the rebellions of Conservative Brexiteers, pro-European Conservatives who want another referendum and the opposition of the DUP. Barring a sudden and drastic shift in the balance of political forces, May's deal is not going to pass.

So the big question is not "what happens to Theresa May?" but "what happens to the country?"


No deal, here we come.

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Mustafaster
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Mustafaster » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:06 pm

You honestly couldn't make British politics up right now.
Looking at it from the outside, it's completely unfathomable.
Clowns to the left, jokers to the right.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Devi
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Devi » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:50 pm

Stuck in the middle with EU...
I like it. What is it?

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:06 pm

Mustafaster wrote:You honestly couldn't make British politics up right now.
Looking at it from the outside, it's completely unfathomable.
Clowns to the left, jokers to the right.


It seems to me that the original principle behind representative democracy had something to do with voting for someone who best represents your interests, on the basis that you would trust them to carefully and thoughtfully consider weighty issues on your behalf, because you had neither the time nor the expertise. You can obviously argue from now til eternity about whether fully participative democracy is a better system, but what's clear is that when you engage in participative democracy for a brief snapshot in time - ie via the referendum - based on a flawed question which did not define outcomes and with badly flawed information, and then expect representative democracy to clean up the mess, the whole edifice is fucked. What are the representatives supposed to do? What they think is right, or to interpret what they think the participative bit might have meant?

This is why the idea that 'the people's vote' is 'a betrayal of democracy' is so utterly imbecilic. Having created this mess through participative democracy, the only plausible final resolution is to address outstanding issues - ie 'What deal?' - through the same process.

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Mustafaster
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Mustafaster » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:31 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:You honestly couldn't make British politics up right now.
Looking at it from the outside, it's completely unfathomable.
Clowns to the left, jokers to the right.


It seems to me that the original principle behind representative democracy had something to do with voting for someone who best represents your interests, on the basis that you would trust them to carefully and thoughtfully consider weighty issues on your behalf, because you had neither the time nor the expertise. You can obviously argue from now til eternity about whether fully participative democracy is a better system, but what's clear is that when you engage in participative democracy for a brief snapshot in time - ie via the referendum - based on a flawed question which did not define outcomes and with badly flawed information, and then expect representative democracy to clean up the mess, the whole edifice is fucked. What are the representatives supposed to do? What they think is right, or to interpret what they think the participative bit might have meant?

This is why the idea that 'the people's vote' is 'a betrayal of democracy' is so utterly imbecilic. Having created this mess through participative democracy, the only plausible final resolution is to address outstanding issues - ie 'What deal?' - through the same process.

And now a Justice Minister threatening civil war.
The "extreme" options of a hard Brexit or a second referendum would lead to "something akin to a civil war", Justice Minister Rory Stewart has warned."
That's right, a Justice Minister. :salute:
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.


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