The state of UK politics

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Bnimble
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Bnimble » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:45 am

Mustafaster wrote:
Bnimble wrote:Ian Blackford laying into the clown at PMQ’s. Much better and more effective than Starmer. This guy must be held to account for his indecision, procrastination and the mistakes made. His comments about over 80’s and letting the bodies pile high is appalling.

Labour need a Rotweiler, not a QC.
Starmer's questions just bounce off Johnson.


Had this conversation with my missus. We need a proper firebrand to hold this guy to account. Starmer not nearly enough.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:48 am

Did enjoy that panto moment after the confusion over sound levels:

PM - "Shall I give that answer again?"

Audience - "NO!!"
:lol:
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Mustafaster
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Mustafaster » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:56 am

Bnimble wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:
Bnimble wrote:Ian Blackford laying into the clown at PMQ’s. Much better and more effective than Starmer. This guy must be held to account for his indecision, procrastination and the mistakes made. His comments about over 80’s and letting the bodies pile high is appalling.

Labour need a Rotweiler, not a QC.
Starmer's questions just bounce off Johnson.


Had this conversation with my missus. We need a proper firebrand to hold this guy to account. Starmer not nearly enough.

Starmer doesn't really understand that PMQs is not a court of law.
His tactics of forensic questioning to trap a witness simply don't work when Boris is free to just ignore the question and has a bunch of braying chimps behind him hooting approval.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Bobbycollins
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Bobbycollins » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:08 pm

Mustafaster wrote: Starmer doesn't really understand that PMQs is not a court of law.
His tactics of forensic questioning to trap a witness simply don't work when Boris is free to just ignore the question and has a bunch of braying chimps behind him hooting approval.

I agree that Starmer's court of law approach doesn't work but the main reason is that the jury is not watching. Starmer needs to forget about PMQs and spend his time initially on producing a set of coherent policies and then touring the country with locally-based MPs and candidates, getting those policies explained to and understood by the public.

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Mustafaster
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Mustafaster » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:13 pm

Bobbycollins wrote:
Mustafaster wrote: Starmer doesn't really understand that PMQs is not a court of law.
His tactics of forensic questioning to trap a witness simply don't work when Boris is free to just ignore the question and has a bunch of braying chimps behind him hooting approval.

I agree that Starmer's court of law approach doesn't work but the main reason is that the jury is not watching. Starmer needs to forget about PMQs and spend his time initially on producing a set of coherent policies and then touring the country with locally-based MPs and candidates, getting those policies explained to and understood by the public.

Not so sure about that.
Nothing wrong with having coherent policies of course, but that doesn't always cut much mustard with a politically illiterate electorate, which is, sadly, the case with much of the UK.
At the last election they had some good policies. When they asked people if they were in favour of the policies the answers were largely positive.
Problem was Brexit of course, but again that's a reflection on the ignorance of the electorate.
It pains me to say that, but it's true, andthere's little point in fooling yerself.

Brexit got over the line in the referendum almost entirely due to ignorance. People were duped into believing lies.
You can only do that to an ignorant electorate.
I reckon the Johnson administration will go down in history as the worst government in modern time, but that doesn't matter either. They convinced people to vote against their own best interests yet again.

People don't take any notice of PMQs generally.
It's formulaic circus that's predictable before it starts.
You know what Starmer is going to say, and that whatever it is, Boris will reply with "World-beating vaccine roll-out Mr Speaker. !".
Added to which the Labour party is, as usual, split between the social democracy tendency and the crypto Trots.
Divided parties can never win.

My personal opinion is that the Labour party may well be effectively finished as a viable alternative government to the Tories in the UK as a whole. It's holed below the water line.
But it would be nice to see a leader with a bit of fire in the belly rip the utter bastards a new one now and again.
Fuck Parliamentary convention.Mr Speaker, the situation is now far too grave to stand on Edwardian niceties
Call him out as a swivel-eyed, indecisive, cowardly, pussy-whipped, lying scumbag, psychologically weak, with the morals and ethics of a hyena, who is dragging the country into a slow-motion trainwreck ... and be damned.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:57 pm

I watched an old John Smith PMQs compilation the other day, it was like a lively comedy club's compere ripping on everyone. Kind but flashes of blade.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

Bnimble
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Bnimble » Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:10 pm

It’s almost like PMQ’s is a game of its own within the wider political game. It takes a specific set of skills to make maximum political capital in such a short space of time. Unfortunately Starmer doesn’t have this requisite set of skills and the forensic QC style just is not working.

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jackos
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby jackos » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:23 pm

3% rise of the lowest paid NHS staff and a pay freeze for the police. Good way to privatise the health and security services if you piss off all your best staff I suppose.

Wonder how many of them regret a vote for Johnson today?
Traditional Socialist Bastard

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:50 pm

So Dawn Butler stands up in the HoC to raise the issue of Johnson - objectively, without question - lying to Parliament and is ejected because you can’t say that.

So you can actually lie and not be challenged, but remarking on the lie gets you chucked out. Not working so well, is it? Shall we rub it all out and start again?
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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:44 pm

I've seen a few decent folks I know repeating the line about pingdemic-related empty shelves due to a lack of shelf stackers - like the bullshit line about There's No Magic Money Tree, needs challenging to avoid the lies: stackers may be shortstaffed too like hgv drivers, but folks, we were fucked for drivers before. Brexit, not covid.

Check the date.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:59 pm

Blackwhite wrote:I've seen a few decent folks I know repeating the line about pingdemic-related empty shelves due to a lack of shelf stackers - like the bullshit line about There's No Magic Money Tree, needs challenging to avoid the lies: stackers may be shortstaffed too like hgv drivers, but folks, we were fucked for drivers before. Brexit, not covid.

Check the date.


Love one of the responses there:

So basically we've inflicted a siege on ourselves
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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:45 am

So after all the (appropriate) stink about Russian corruption into the current govt., the tories commissioned a report. It made 21 recommendations.

It's been a year. Not one of the recommendations has been acted on, and they've trousered another £280,000 in the meantime. From fuck knows who, fuck knows why. No doubt all in your best interests.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Mustafaster
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Mustafaster » Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:38 pm

Blackwhite wrote:So after all the (appropriate) stink about Russian corruption into the current govt., the tories commissioned a report. It made 21 recommendations.

It's been a year. Not one of the recommendations has been acted on, and they've trousered another £280,000 in the meantime. From fuck knows who, fuck knows why. No doubt all in your best interests.

Now is not the time ...
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:56 pm

I realise they've been very busy. In some areas, they've had to implement multiple policies one after the other, like Bielsa politics where you can't be sure what it is you're actually dealing with.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:41 pm

Robbed off the Facebook which was in turn robbed off the Twatter, but GPWM

A German friend said that part of the reason for their generous benefits was that the state hoped to protect itself from fascism, which is typically born from desperate economic straits. I think about that a lot.
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eric olthwaite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby eric olthwaite » Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:38 pm

So Ken Loach who directed Cathy Come Home, causing a debate on poverty in Parliament and eventually a change in the law, is expelled from the Labour Party.

Top work Starmer, top work.
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Eddies Boots
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Eddies Boots » Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:56 am

eric olthwaite wrote:Robbed off the Facebook which was in turn robbed off the Twatter, but GPWM

A German friend said that part of the reason for their generous benefits was that the state hoped to protect itself from fascism, which is typically born from desperate economic straits. I think about that a lot.


Took me a while to find, but I knew I had just read about this, put in a broader context.
The Beeb from June 28th: Why doesn't the US have mandated paid maternity leave?

European nations, says Siegel, had experienced the effects of fascism directly, and from this trauma came a sense that the social philosophy of ‘each man for himself’ was “too alienating and left people vulnerable to extreme ideologies”.

That led to broad political support for a welfare state as a tool to create the social and economic stability and solidarity needed to support democracy. Maternity leave in the UK, for example, came alongside reforms that built up public health care and workers’ pensions.


Maybe this next bit belongs on the US thread, but this underlines Trump's ongoing campaign to discredit the democratic voting process in the US which will further alienate people from the norm of society and leave them open to his brand of fascism.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:55 pm

Hi-viz offender shaming and permanent racist facilitation*.

Well, it's easier than actually doing something.


*TFP, I'd be tempted to sit any sus law discussion out if I were you.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Blackwhite » Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:15 pm

Is there a point where the sheer chutzpah involved overrides the boredom induced by seeing so much of this shit and nobody seeming to care, and nothing being done? Probably not.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Mustafaster
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Re: The state of UK politics

Postby Mustafaster » Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:33 pm

Blackwhite wrote:Is there a point where the sheer chutzpah involved overrides the boredom induced by seeing so much of this shit and nobody seeming to care, and nothing being done? Probably not.

Why would anything be done?
GOSH!
It's working brilliantly for them.
Huge majority in Parliament, no opposition to speak of, trousering from the public purse at will ...
If it ain't broke you jolly well don't fix it.

Standard innit bra.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.


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