O/T: Fuck Cancer

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Rob
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:59 am
Location: South Florida

Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Rob » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:31 am

Over the past month my mother was originally diagnosed with ovarian cancer (the silent killer and invariably terminal) to last night, having had significant surgery to be completely re-diagnosed with a non cancerous inflamed lump. Talk about a swing of emotions in March. Thank the Lord etc.

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Vampire
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:19 am

Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Vampire » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:58 am

eric olthwaite wrote:Not wishing to offend anyone who's lost someone they love to cancer (I have too) but I think in some ways the debate gets distorted. The number of people who die from heart disease each year is, I believe, marginally higher than deaths from cancer.

But the thing is that heart disease often kills pretty much instantly. What we all can't stand about cancer is that it slowly destroys people, right in front of our eyes, over an extended period. That seems to make it particularly hard to deal with.

S'pose all I'm saying is that when people look into funding for medical research, they should focus on the likelihood of saving lives, not on how ugly diseases appear to the observer.


Interesting point Eric, but I suppose - all things being equal - if I had to choose between putting scarce resources into funding a cure for something that kills people instantly or funding a cure for a cruel and slow disease that devastates the lives not only of the victims but also many of those close to them, then I'd choose the latter even if statistically it killed a few less. Obviously I did say "all things being equal" which they rarely are, for example, some cures appear closer and more attainable than others which means you can see a near immediate benefit for your funding compared with something more speculative.

I must say I don't envy those in senior positions in the health sector who have to make such decisions on prioritisation, and I envy even less those doctors and nurses that have to deal with the horrors of these diseases every day. It must be totally soul destroying to have to deal with suffering and terminally I'll patients on a daily basis and I don't know how these people (most of them low paid) cope - but grateful that they do what they do.
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:31 am

Rob wrote:Over the past month my mother was originally diagnosed with ovarian cancer (the silent killer and invariably terminal) to last night, having had significant surgery to be completely re-diagnosed with a non cancerous inflamed lump. Talk about a swing of emotions in March. Thank the Lord etc.

On a tiny scale, I think we all got a flavour of your collective month's rollercoaster ride while reading your post.

Really pleased to hear the pathology came back on her side. Now go enjoy life in full colour :mrgreen:
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:35 am

Eric, will post relatively up to date figures on what we die from later. Have a figure on another box.

What your analysis partially misses is that public funding (coins in tins) has always been emotionally driven and fickle: and almost never on a cost-benefit analysis. This last is how state bodies prioritise it, and even that goes very expensively wrong (e.g. BSE...).
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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gazurtoids
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:10 am

Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby gazurtoids » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:59 am

Image

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:07 am

Blackwhite wrote:Eric, will post relatively up to date figures on what we die from later. Have a figure on another box.


The file attached shows that circulatory diseases and cancer kill roughly equivalent numbers of people.

Also worth remembering how much of circulatory disease is lifestyle-affected (think of all the folks you know with non-congenital cardiac problems and their lifestyles); historically this can be a barrier to people funding those charities (e.g. lung cancer charities have a hard time as so many folks think "it's self-inflicted"; and they often have a point, but this leaves a lot of folks high & dry).

And remember the other golden rules: if it's kids it'll probably get more money; if it's very rare it'll get less, right up until people work out why it's relevant for other things and should be worked out; and (at least in the bigger charities) what ACTUALLY gets funded is decided by scientists in the field assessing other people's proposals - and this is fraught with difficulties.

And so, most people fund something close to them, or an all-encompassing general charity plus a care charity. Local hospices also worth a mention; many of us will have watched folks being eased by hospice staff in their last hours, and have been eased by them ourselves.
I was going to say I couldn't do it, but of course we all could for our loved ones; it's just engendering the mindset that we could (and should) do it for others that they have bang-on.
Attachments
What We Die Of 2012.pdf
(51.25 KiB) Downloaded 79 times
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:19 am

That guy is brilliant as summarising science in cartoon form... this one is no exception.

Randall (who draws XKCD) has been watching his partner go through cancer and his stuff on it is excellent. My other favourite on the subject...

They're too big, so click through:
http://www.xkcd.com/1141/


...and this one summarises an area of effort which might sound crazy but is already beginning to show clinical results; and has been for years as a hugely useful side effect of bone marrow transplantation. The trick now is making it safer and more effective.
http://www.xkcd.com/938/
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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gazurtoids
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:10 am

Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby gazurtoids » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:27 am

Yeah, the two years one choked me up a fair bit when he posted it and I'm fortunate enough not to have been directly or indirectly affected by cancer yet.

This one too: http://xkcd.com/1048/

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eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
Location: Over there, behind that bush

Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby eric olthwaite » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:03 pm

Blackwhite wrote:Also worth remembering how much of circulatory disease is lifestyle-affected (think of all the folks you know with non-congenital cardiac problems and their lifestyles); historically this can be a barrier to people funding those charities (e.g. lung cancer charities have a hard time as so many folks think "it's self-inflicted"; and they often have a point, but this leaves a lot of folks high & dry).


Yeah, tricky one, this. My Dad was the first male member of his entire extended family to make it past 52 because of heart attacks or strokes. 'Heart disease' has connotations of some sort of self-abuse, but most of my Dad's relatives worked down the pit or in quarries and lived fairly shitty lives with poor diets all things considered, so I don't think they can really be held entirely accountable for what happened to their bodies.

At the same time (and correct me if I'm wrong) there's always one bit of research or another suggesting that some form of cancer is lifestyle affected - eg the recent stuff about processed meats.

I think you can only go with the view that health treatment should be as non-judgmental as possible. If you treat someone for breaking their leg ski-ing, I'm not sure you can dismiss them for stuffing themselves full of chips, either.

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:14 pm

Oh, undoubtedly Eric. Not arguing at all, you're absolutely right (in fact a good amount of what CRUK fund, for instance, is aimed at prevention of lifestyle or workplace exposure to mutagens).

This should be (and is) the way state or charitable board-advised funding goes; but it's sadly not always how the public think collectively. (You know exactly what I mean; how many times have you heard someone complain about their taxation with "I'm never ill, don't smoke or drink etc., why should I pay for those feckless cunts?") Collective emotion is IMO the primary driver in personal charitable funding.

So the RSPB is richer than Croesus whilst MSF struggle to save lives in field hospitals in Syria, to offer one terrible example.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:45 pm

You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Billy Casper
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:32 pm

Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Billy Casper » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:09 pm

We have eradicated Colin, just Bates to go...
No Skuche ala Gats

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AndyPaul
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:27 am
Location: Middlesbrough

Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby AndyPaul » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:19 pm

Billy Casper wrote:We have eradicated Colin,


Not quite, I am sure they will be cleaning chairs that are stained with his fake tan for many months to come.

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
Location: Arse end of nowhere

Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:33 pm

AndyPaul wrote:
Billy Casper wrote:We have eradicated Colin,


Not quite, I am sure they will be cleaning chairs that are stained with his fake tan for many months to come.

That's not fake tan, that's sincerity, brown, stinky sincerity, oozing out through every pore.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
Location: Over there, behind that bush

Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby eric olthwaite » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:45 pm



Nice BTL comment, last one at the time of writing, along the lines of, 'Fuck that bitch, we've got research to worry about'. Hmmm.

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
Location: Arse end of nowhere

Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:59 pm

Yeah, indicative of the attitude of some; even with the HTA over their heads, I've seen some fairly blase thinking. But posting an identifiable genome without even thinking about it, or it coming up, insane.

I once asked a seminar speaker who worked on the genetics of autistic spectrum disorders why in a previous answer she was trailing the possibility of prenatal diagnosis, as it was so clearly unethical: she looked at me like she'd never thought about it before. She possibly hadn't.


I recommend anyone who doesn't know the Lacks/HeLa story to dig into it, it's fascinating stuff. As is the side story about how many labs allowed their ENTIRE culture collection to get contaminated by HeLa overgrowth, invalidating much if not all of their work... ooooooops. :salute:
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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SimonB
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:54 am
Location: Peterborough
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Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby SimonB » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:47 pm

I used to work within a clinical research organisation within a pharma group and the decision on which molecules to continue researching on was based on the eventual potential market size. Clearly this means that rare diseases (such as some cancers) would never pass the economic test and would never be fully researched. Commercially this is the right decision given the years and expense it takes to put any new drug product on the market, bit of a fucker to those that have the disease though.

Fortunately for me the only cancer so far in my family has been hodgkins lymphoma (twice) which was successfully treated (twice).

Personally I want more research into replacement livers.......
We had a meeting at work today and I was asked what steps I would take in the event of a fire. Apparently "fucking big ones" wasn't the right answer

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gazurtoids
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:10 am

Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby gazurtoids » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:52 pm

Iain Banks has just announced he has less than a year left. What a fucker.

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Ponte
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Between a rock and a hard place.

Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Ponte » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:52 pm

SimonB wrote:Personally I want more research into replacement livers.......


Image
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Hmmm.

Beer Pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:45 am
Location: Doncaster

Re: O/T: Fuck Cancer

Postby Beer Pig » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:59 pm

Ponte wrote:
SimonB wrote:Personally I want more research into replacement livers.......


Image


:mrgreen: :mrgreen:




























Probably be a Magners reply soon! :mrgreen:
I gave up beer, it was the worst 15 minutes of my life.


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