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Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:13 pm
by the flying pig
moscowhite wrote:...just to add to the above, Deane didn't think this rule change would 'solve' anything. And I mean, one rule isn't going to 'solve' racial bias, it'd be daft to think so.

But it's hard to find something that can be done. Because I don't think any BAME applicants want to be given a job on that basis. But they want what they're not getting now, which is a chance to earn it. That's what this gives people. And who knows? Maybe after hearing Steve Evans talk shit for an hour, then talking to an impressive black candidate they wouldn't otherwise have heard, maybe a board somewhere will think, fuck it, let's go with him.

The other thing from talking to Deane that stays with me about this was an interesting question. Take Roy Keane, who played for Nottingham Forest, Scum, Celtic and Ireland. Then take Paul Ince, who played for West Ham, Scum, Inter, Liverpool, Middlesbrough, Wolves, England, a greater breadth of experience and, at World Cups, arguably to a higher level. Why did one start his managerial career in the Championship, and one start with the bottom club of League Two? (by seven points — he kept them up.)

As it turns out, Wikipedia tells me that Ince has a better win percentage over six jobs than Keane has from his two. Ince has been out of work since 2014, while Keane has been assistant at Ireland, Villa and now Forest since 2013. Okay, Ince might not be getting jobs now because he's a knobhead. But then what the fuck's Roy Keane if he's not a knobhead?


Not many top English players of their vintage have done much as managers. Ince arguably had one of the better managerial careers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Eu ... ds#England

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Eu ... ds#England

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:34 pm
by Quiffy
moscowhite wrote:Spoke to Brian Deane about this last year. Think I've said it on here before so I'll be brief.

He wanted to be a manager. Had the desire, went and got the ability — did his coaching qualifications, then went and managed in Norway for two seasons to get experience. Kept what had been the worst team in the division up. Beat Solksjaer's Molde, as it happens.

Came back, with everything going for him. Coaching qualifications, managerial experience, a playing career taking in all four divisions, years in the Premier League, a season abroad, even briefly the Champions League with Benfica.

If that CV landed on your desk at a League Two club, you'd think them a candidate worth speaking to, surely?

Deane spent two years applying for jobs in England and didn't get a single interview. Said the reaction to him was like to 'a fart in the room.' Became bitter. Gave up. I don't think he'd apply for a managerial job now if you paid him.

Deane did everything you get told to do — do your badges, get experience at the bottom/abroad — but if even he, a reasonably famous ex-pro, can't even get an interview anywhere, what actually is the problem?

Clubs absolutely should employ the best person for their job, but there's a lot of evidence from people like Deane that people who could do jobs aren't being given an equal chance to interview for them.


that is one of the most depressing things i've read.

deano is deano, i don't even think of him as being black, he's deano, a legitamely top bloke who used to go to ally grange, the school most of my primary school mates went to. the idea that people can't see beyond his skin colour is fucking depressing. then again we are in weird times.

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:00 am
by Arnieb
the flying pig wrote:
moscowhite wrote:...just to add to the above, Deane didn't think this rule change would 'solve' anything. And I mean, one rule isn't going to 'solve' racial bias, it'd be daft to think so.

But it's hard to find something that can be done. Because I don't think any BAME applicants want to be given a job on that basis. But they want what they're not getting now, which is a chance to earn it. That's what this gives people. And who knows? Maybe after hearing Steve Evans talk shit for an hour, then talking to an impressive black candidate they wouldn't otherwise have heard, maybe a board somewhere will think, fuck it, let's go with him.

The other thing from talking to Deane that stays with me about this was an interesting question. Take Roy Keane, who played for Nottingham Forest, Scum, Celtic and Ireland. Then take Paul Ince, who played for West Ham, Scum, Inter, Liverpool, Middlesbrough, Wolves, England, a greater breadth of experience and, at World Cups, arguably to a higher level. Why did one start his managerial career in the Championship, and one start with the bottom club of League Two? (by seven points — he kept them up.)

As it turns out, Wikipedia tells me that Ince has a better win percentage over six jobs than Keane has from his two. Ince has been out of work since 2014, while Keane has been assistant at Ireland, Villa and now Forest since 2013. Okay, Ince might not be getting jobs now because he's a knobhead. But then what the fuck's Roy Keane if he's not a knobhead?


Not many top English players of their vintage have done much as managers. Ince arguably had one of the better managerial careers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Eu ... ds#England

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Eu ... ds#England



This is properly a depressing read.

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:37 am
by the flying pig
i pretty much stand by what i posted on this six yrs ago, though, i suppose, the ethnicity of the four 'new' english PL managers [dyche, howe, wilder, & smith] doesn't look super impressive, nor does the proper old-school way that gerrard & lampard walked straight into relatively high profile gigs. i suppose you might say similar things about southgate's england appointment in the way that he had zero club track record...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4635&p=199569#p199556

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:03 pm
by thestraw
the flying pig wrote:i pretty much stand by what i posted on this six yrs ago, though, i suppose, the ethnicity of the four 'new' english PL managers [dyche, howe, wilder, & smith] doesn't look super impressive, nor does the proper old-school way that gerrard & lampard walked straight into relatively high profile gigs. i suppose you might say similar things about southgate's england appointment in the way that he had zero club track record...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4635&p=199569#p199556

Southgate had a fairly respectable stint as Boro manager forom recollection before they lost a bit of form and he got sacked. He was then really just at the right place at the right time (U21 boss when Big Sam went after 1 game with no real obvious English contender for the job). But yes, i get the point you are trying to make. It doesn't make great reading does it, especially Deano's experience.

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:40 pm
by eric olthwaite
Apparently Frank has met with Chelsea's people for a chat :lol:

Inject that car-crash straight into my veins.

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:47 pm
by metalsmurf
eric olthwaite wrote:Apparently Frank has met with Chelsea's people for a chat :lol:

Inject that car-crash straight into my veins.

Please let this happen, I'm not a religious man but...

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:29 pm
by Phil LUFC
Woodgate in at Boro apparently.

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:02 am
by AndyPaul
Phil LUFC wrote:Woodgate in at Boro apparently.


Suppose its on less team to worry about when going for promotion

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:56 am
by Phil LUFC
AndyPaul wrote:
Phil LUFC wrote:Woodgate in at Boro apparently.


Suppose its on less team to worry about when going for promotion

I'm not sure about that, it's still an expensive/talented squad by championship standards, he's been there a while as a coach under Pulis. There's arguably parallels here to DOL getting the gig after GG fucked off to spurs.

If Woodgate has a more attacking ethos while the players remember the defensive job they've spent a year practicing they could be quite dangerous (especially if they happen to have some good young players Pulis overlooked).

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:46 pm
by Proud to be Leeds
Robbie Keane might be his assistant coach too.

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:59 am
by Ponte
Proud to be Leeds wrote:Robbie Keane might be his assistant coach too.

Be good for him, being a boyhood Boro fan...

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:50 am
by dirty leeds
Garry Monk rumoured to be leaving Brum.

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:33 am
by welshwhite
dirty leeds wrote:Garry Monk rumoured to be leaving Brum.


Thank fuck for that, he got them fired up against us last season.
The six points stopped us from going up.

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:43 am
by dirty leeds
So Chris Hughton to Brum and Monk to... Swansea again?

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:38 pm
by Tycipa
dirty leeds wrote:So Chris Hughton to Brum and Monk to... Swansea again?

Swansea job going to the England U17’s coach I read somewhere.

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:08 pm
by dirty leeds
Bilic in at WBA?

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:00 pm
by dirty leeds
Monk says he staying now.

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:22 pm
by Proud to be Leeds
Ponte wrote:
Proud to be Leeds wrote:Robbie Keane might be his assistant coach too.

Be good for him, being a boyhood Boro fan...


:mrgreen:

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:30 pm
by Phil LUFC
Bowyer leaving Charlton, something about not offering him parity.