Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Discussion on LUFC and absolutely anything... welcome to the Dark Side
User avatar
Tommy
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:07 pm
Location: UK

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby Tommy » Tue May 14, 2019 6:56 am

That Lampard link could well be mischievous Leeds fans but I hope not.

User avatar
eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
Location: Over there, behind that bush

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby eric olthwaite » Tue May 14, 2019 8:00 am

Phil LUFC wrote:Seems they're already talking to Frank Lampard, if Twitter is to believed.


Some Wiki wag has updated Brighton's page to say the new man is Paolo Maldini with Luca Toni as assistant. I doubt that very much :lol:

Fat Frank doesn't strike me as a particularly Tony Bloom-y type appointment, but you never know.

User avatar
dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: London

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby dirty leeds » Fri May 17, 2019 9:09 am

Pulis gone, Woodgate in [latter according to The Sun]: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48255942

User avatar
eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
Location: Over there, behind that bush

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby eric olthwaite » Fri May 17, 2019 11:15 am

dirty leeds wrote:Pulis gone, Woodgate in [latter according to The Sun]: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48255942


Woody - aka 'village' - sounds like a barking mad choice. KInda hope it works for him though.

User avatar
the flying pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby the flying pig » Fri May 17, 2019 12:16 pm

Woody, eh.

in his defence [it was said at the time that] of the three english 'galacticos' who went to Madrid at that time, he, despite not being there long, was the only one who learned to speak even half decent Spanish. so i don't think he's a complete fool by any means.

User avatar
Musson Grumble
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:34 pm
Location: Left a bit, no no right, ahh, lovely

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby Musson Grumble » Sat May 18, 2019 10:20 am

Aye, good luck to him. Just not against Leeds.
Eat more English celery.

User avatar
dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: London

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby dirty leeds » Sat May 18, 2019 7:15 pm

Potter to take over at Brighton.

User avatar
Still Hates Gordon Watson
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:01 pm

Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby Still Hates Gordon Watson » Wed May 22, 2019 6:22 am

Putting this here as still can’t bear to think of him as an ex-White:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48355306

User avatar
Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
Location: Arse end of nowhere

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby Blackwhite » Wed May 22, 2019 7:13 am

Still Hates Gordon Watson wrote:Putting this here as still can’t bear to think of him as an ex-White:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48355306

I know, I cry every day too since he left.


Stay strong, fella :salute:
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

User avatar
Oheddieeddie
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:35 pm
Location: Tacky with sweat and poisonous particulates.

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby Oheddieeddie » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:46 pm

I looked for a more appropriate thread, but Danny (of dusky dreamboat fame) somehow got most of them locked

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/footbal ... ssion=true

Chris Powell is going to be very busy going forward it seems

User avatar
jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby jackos » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:09 pm

Oheddieeddie wrote:I looked for a more appropriate thread, but Danny (of dusky dreamboat fame) somehow got most of them locked

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/footbal ... ssion=true

Chris Powell is going to be very busy going forward it seems



Ex Tennis player chief exec, positive discrimination of non-BAME managerial candidates, whatever next.

Serious question though. Understand that their are concerns about the number of Black managers, and Asian players in football, but there's hardly any English managers in top football either, nor are there that many English players who start regularly for top clubs in the EPL. Would Bielsa count as BAME? I know we headhunted him, that seems to be the way these days, top clubs target a manager and try get them rather than asking for applications.

User avatar
eric olthwaite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:14 pm
Location: Over there, behind that bush

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby eric olthwaite » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:55 pm

Serious answer: point is that things will change and BAME managers will be ‘normalised’ and accepted once there’s a decent number of them. The hurdle is getting to that first tranche. That needs to happen at National League / FL1 / FL2 level, and that’s where I think mixed interview lists will be most important.

User avatar
MightyWhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:38 am
Location: Notts

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby MightyWhite » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:16 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:Serious answer: point is that things will change and BAME managers will be ‘normalised’ and accepted once there’s a decent number of them. The hurdle is getting to that first tranche. That needs to happen at National League / FL1 / FL2 level, and that’s where I think mixed interview lists will be most important.


This. I know it’s not the intention of Jackos but we need to stay away from anything remotely close to ‘ah but white English managers’ whataboutary. If you’re white, know enough people, and can just about identify a football pitch there’s a job somewhere for you in the Football League. It’s high time some new faces have a chance at getting a gig.

And it’s not positive discrimination, it’s positive action - eg giving an under represented characteristic the tools/opportunity to succeed on their own merits.
Keep Fighting
@lufchris - contributes to your daily bullshit quota in easy 140 charactor installments

Eddies Boots
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 5:07 am
Location: Arizona

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby Eddies Boots » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:08 am

Yes. Its just a process - no one has to hire - just interview.
I imagine that there are a number of British managers considered for some of the top positions in the EPL - they are just not going to get one of those jobs. [Unless FFL does because Chelsea are under a transfer ban, and which manager would take it.]

User avatar
jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby jackos » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:32 am

Guess so. Normalise the seemingly impossible. Positive discrimination results in lot of snide remarks, mainly from older men, about why x got the job, but its helped the company I work for recruit a lot of exceptional female managers and executives. One of the biggest problem I see in industry these days is that if you're older than 50 you'll find it difficult to get a job, which can be a problem when you need an experienced expert, but it still gets a bit tiring, especially in countries like Germany where an expert is defined as an "older white man with a Dr.-ing".
Any guy with the German accent is assumed to be an expert, they often are as well, but anyone else has to prove their expertise.

Need to break up the old boys club in some way.

User avatar
Musson Grumble
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:34 pm
Location: Left a bit, no no right, ahh, lovely

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby Musson Grumble » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:32 pm

MightyWhite wrote:
This. I know it’s not the intention of Jackos but we need to stay away from anything remotely close to ‘ah but white English managers’ whataboutary. If you’re white, know enough people, and can just about identify a football pitch there’s a job somewhere for you in the Football League. It’s high time some new faces have a chance at getting a gig.

And it’s not positive discrimination, it’s positive action - eg giving an under represented characteristic the tools/opportunity to succeed on their own merits.


Is it not the case that if there was the desire and ability from the BAME community there would be more football management variety?
Perhaps, only perhaps, neither community want to participate?
Why should positive action be compulsory for apparently under represented minorities, who may or may not be interested? Diversity for the sake of it?
I'm all for diverse participation, but if people don't want to, what's the problem?
Eat more English celery.

User avatar
MightyWhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:38 am
Location: Notts

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby MightyWhite » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:21 pm

Musson Grumble wrote:
MightyWhite wrote:
This. I know it’s not the intention of Jackos but we need to stay away from anything remotely close to ‘ah but white English managers’ whataboutary. If you’re white, know enough people, and can just about identify a football pitch there’s a job somewhere for you in the Football League. It’s high time some new faces have a chance at getting a gig.

And it’s not positive discrimination, it’s positive action - eg giving an under represented characteristic the tools/opportunity to succeed on their own merits.


Is it not the case that if there was the desire and ability from the BAME community there would be more football management variety?
Perhaps, only perhaps, neither community want to participate?
Why should positive action be compulsory for apparently under represented minorities, who may or may not be interested? Diversity for the sake of it?
I'm all for diverse participation, but if people don't want to, what's the problem?


I know as much as you do about how many BAME individuals are actively applying for jobs (eg nothing) but would respond to that thusly.

Either:

All the various BAME former players (including our own Brian Deane on Twitter today) who say they are getting doors closed in their face at every turn, are right, in which case this regulation is absolutely necessary

Or

They’re talking bollocks and really hardly any BAME ex players are even contemplating moving into management, in which case this is clearly an absolutely perverse state of affairs considering the make up of society/professional football, and measures need to be put in place to make ex BAME players believe that there is a genuine prospect of a career in that sector - therefore making this regulation absolutely necessary
Keep Fighting
@lufchris - contributes to your daily bullshit quota in easy 140 charactor installments

User avatar
moscowhite
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:47 pm

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby moscowhite » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:46 pm

Spoke to Brian Deane about this last year. Think I've said it on here before so I'll be brief.

He wanted to be a manager. Had the desire, went and got the ability — did his coaching qualifications, then went and managed in Norway for two seasons to get experience. Kept what had been the worst team in the division up. Beat Solksjaer's Molde, as it happens.

Came back, with everything going for him. Coaching qualifications, managerial experience, a playing career taking in all four divisions, years in the Premier League, a season abroad, even briefly the Champions League with Benfica.

If that CV landed on your desk at a League Two club, you'd think them a candidate worth speaking to, surely?

Deane spent two years applying for jobs in England and didn't get a single interview. Said the reaction to him was like to 'a fart in the room.' Became bitter. Gave up. I don't think he'd apply for a managerial job now if you paid him.

Deane did everything you get told to do — do your badges, get experience at the bottom/abroad — but if even he, a reasonably famous ex-pro, can't even get an interview anywhere, what actually is the problem?

Clubs absolutely should employ the best person for their job, but there's a lot of evidence from people like Deane that people who could do jobs aren't being given an equal chance to interview for them.
'If you give Leeds the ball, they will make you dance.' - Johan Cruyff

User avatar
moscowhite
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:47 pm

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby moscowhite » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:47 pm

...just to add to the above, Deane didn't think this rule change would 'solve' anything. And I mean, one rule isn't going to 'solve' racial bias, it'd be daft to think so.

But it's hard to find something that can be done. Because I don't think any BAME applicants want to be given a job on that basis. But they want what they're not getting now, which is a chance to earn it. That's what this gives people. And who knows? Maybe after hearing Steve Evans talk shit for an hour, then talking to an impressive black candidate they wouldn't otherwise have heard, maybe a board somewhere will think, fuck it, let's go with him.

The other thing from talking to Deane that stays with me about this was an interesting question. Take Roy Keane, who played for Nottingham Forest, Scum, Celtic and Ireland. Then take Paul Ince, who played for West Ham, Scum, Inter, Liverpool, Middlesbrough, Wolves, England, a greater breadth of experience and, at World Cups, arguably to a higher level. Why did one start his managerial career in the Championship, and one start with the bottom club of League Two? (by seven points — he kept them up.)

As it turns out, Wikipedia tells me that Ince has a better win percentage over six jobs than Keane has from his two. Ince has been out of work since 2014, while Keane has been assistant at Ireland, Villa and now Forest since 2013. Okay, Ince might not be getting jobs now because he's a knobhead. But then what the fuck's Roy Keane if he's not a knobhead?
'If you give Leeds the ball, they will make you dance.' - Johan Cruyff

User avatar
jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Mickey Apples Appreciation Thread aka The Sack Race

Postby jackos » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:01 pm

moscowhite wrote:Spoke to Brian Deane about this last year. Think I've said it on here before so I'll be brief.





Return to “The Square Ball”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], LSD&2Es, theboil, topbin and 18 guests