Dirty Music

Discussion on LUFC and absolutely anything... welcome to the Dark Side
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Blackwhite
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Blackwhite » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:10 am

Only just catching up on Stormzy's latest diss on Wiley; probably confected for hype, but if not, fucking funny...

You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby dirty leeds » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:44 am

Blackwhite wrote:Only just catching up on Stormzy's latest diss on Wiley; probably confected for hype, but if not, fucking funny...


It is. Shit to sell.

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Blackwhite
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Blackwhite » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:18 am

Still pretty funny even if it's just his version of Ernie the fastest milkman if I'm honest....
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Terre Harte II
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Terre Harte II » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:38 am

Not so much a musical recommendation, but I bought a record player recently, a decent one, and I’ve been wanting to buy LPs that have the best sound to them. Not that I’m an audiophile obsessive. Far from it, and I’m even farther from being knowledgable about it beyond the extreme basics.

On a work trip yesterday, I bought a 70s vintage copy of “Exile On Main Street”. All I knew was that I had read that recent re-issues of classic albums are overly compressed, compromising sonic quality, and that the richness of original vinyl is superior IF you can get a clean copy. So that was the only signpost that guided me.

Still, I was curious about when the LP was pressed, so I jumped into the dense world of the hardcore audiophiles and read up on Exile in their communities.

As expected, the consensus was that the pressings from the original year or so are superior. You could tell the difference by looking at the etchings in the deadwax, the runout after the side ends, which basically has the DNA of any record.

If you found a UFO-like symbol (the symbol for Artisan, a well-respected group that mastered albums in the 70s) in the deadwax, you had the one you wanted. Sure enough, there was that Artisan symbol on all four sides of my Exile. I lucked out and likely got a bargain on it.

Audiophiles are a fascinating cult. There are devotees of well-respected mastering technicians. There’s pressing plants that were considered superior for some records. And that’s just the North American releases. The European LPs are a world unto themselves.

I read a 14-page debate on Steely Dan’s “Aja” - obviously a record you want the best sonic quality - that was both hilarious in its wonky divides, but also interesting in the little details you learn. Turns out, I have the best version of that too, purely by accident.

As it was for anyone buying these records at release. It’s not as if you could pull them out and check the serial numbers. You might have got the definitive version or you might have purchased a dud.

Neat diversion to read about.
The artist formerly known as Terre Harte I. Occasionally posts Nolans videos.

Something-something here about Massimo Cellino, beer and refrigerators.

Professor Weeto
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:49 pm

Re: Dirty Music

Postby Professor Weeto » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:58 am

Terre Harte II wrote:Not so much a musical recommendation, but I bought a record player recently, a decent one, and I’ve been wanting to buy LPs that have the best sound to them. Not that I’m an audiophile obsessive. Far from it, and I’m even farther from being knowledgable about it beyond the extreme basics.

On a work trip yesterday, I bought a 70s vintage copy of “Exile On Main Street”. All I knew was that I had read that recent re-issues of classic albums are overly compressed, compromising sonic quality, and that the richness of original vinyl is superior IF you can get a clean copy. So that was the only signpost that guided me.

Still, I was curious about when the LP was pressed, so I jumped into the dense world of the hardcore audiophiles and read up on Exile in their communities.

As expected, the consensus was that the pressings from the original year or so are superior. You could tell the difference by looking at the etchings in the deadwax, the runout after the side ends, which basically has the DNA of any record.

If you found a UFO-like symbol (the symbol for Artisan, a well-respected group that mastered albums in the 70s) in the deadwax, you had the one you wanted. Sure enough, there was that Artisan symbol on all four sides of my Exile. I lucked out and likely got a bargain on it.

Audiophiles are a fascinating cult. There are devotees of well-respected mastering technicians. There’s pressing plants that were considered superior for some records. And that’s just the North American releases. The European LPs are a world unto themselves.

I read a 14-page debate on Steely Dan’s “Aja” - obviously a record you want the best sonic quality - that was both hilarious in its wonky divides, but also interesting in the little details you learn. Turns out, I have the best version of that too, purely by accident.

As it was for anyone buying these records at release. It’s not as if you could pull them out and check the serial numbers. You might have got the definitive version or you might have purchased a dud.

Neat diversion to read about.


As a mastering engineer myself I'm happy to report that the more rabid end of audiophilia is just as bizarre and baffling to those of us in the profession as it is to laymen.

Also, some remasters do sound better than the original. It's definitely not the norm, but technology has come a long way and if mastering engineers were actually allowed to do what they think sounds best rather than be dictated to by artists and labels - who often have a very distorted vision of what they assume the public wants - then I think most 'classic' records could be improved, sonically.

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Devi
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Devi » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:00 am

Mate of mine owns a speaker company. While I confess they are outstanding speakers, never, ever trap yourself in a conversation with him about the science behind his inventions.
I like it. What is it?

Professor Weeto
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:49 pm

Re: Dirty Music

Postby Professor Weeto » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:06 am

Devi wrote:Mate of mine owns a speaker company. While I confess they are outstanding speakers, never, ever trap yourself in a conversation with him about the science behind his inventions.


Which company?

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Devi
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Devi » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:17 am

Professor Weeto wrote:
Devi wrote:Mate of mine owns a speaker company. While I confess they are outstanding speakers, never, ever trap yourself in a conversation with him about the science behind his inventions.


Which company?


Flare.
I like it. What is it?

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Devi
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Devi » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:19 am

Devi wrote:
Professor Weeto wrote:
Devi wrote:Mate of mine owns a speaker company. While I confess they are outstanding speakers, never, ever trap yourself in a conversation with him about the science behind his inventions.


Which company?


Flare.


(Link edited to speakers, rather than in-ears)
I like it. What is it?

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: London

Re: Dirty Music

Postby dirty leeds » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:23 am

Professor Weeto wrote:As a mastering engineer myself I'm happy to report that the more rabid end of audiophilia is just as bizarre and baffling to those of us in the profession as it is to laymen.

Also, some remasters do sound better than the original. It's definitely not the norm, but technology has come a long way and if mastering engineers were actually allowed to do what they think sounds best rather than be dictated to by artists and labels - who often have a very distorted vision of what they assume the public wants - then I think most 'classic' records could be improved, sonically.


Don't think you were around on here at the time, but a while ago I went to the launch for MQA, a new type of digital file for music that reckons to have solved the compression problem affecting MP3s yet didn't take up the space of lossless. The general idea was then to re-release albums at Master quality sound. Anyway, they played us some well known music and it sounded amazing. You ran across it?
Invented by the fellas at Meridian: https://www.whathifi.com/advice/mqa-aud ... you-get-it

Professor Weeto
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:49 pm

Re: Dirty Music

Postby Professor Weeto » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:40 am

dirty leeds wrote:
Professor Weeto wrote:As a mastering engineer myself I'm happy to report that the more rabid end of audiophilia is just as bizarre and baffling to those of us in the profession as it is to laymen.

Also, some remasters do sound better than the original. It's definitely not the norm, but technology has come a long way and if mastering engineers were actually allowed to do what they think sounds best rather than be dictated to by artists and labels - who often have a very distorted vision of what they assume the public wants - then I think most 'classic' records could be improved, sonically.


Don't think you were around on here at the time, but a while ago I went to the launch for MQA, a new type of digital file for music that reckons to have solved the compression problem affecting MP3s yet didn't take up the space of lossless. The general idea was then to re-release albums at Master quality sound. Anyway, they played us some well known music and it sounded amazing. You ran across it?
Invented by the fellas at Meridian: https://www.whathifi.com/advice/mqa-aud ... you-get-it


Yeah, MQA is considered to be an ansolute joke by every professional mastering engineer I know. They claim that their technology delivers the master 'as the artist intended', and that it somehow makes all music sound better. It's bollocks - if it worked as they describe then we mastering engineers would be baking it into the masters, not leaving it to some venture-funded tech company to sort out.

It's just another way of trying to get people to part with their money. All it really boils down to is a blue LED that turns on if the file is 'MQA'. It's marketing bullshit. The fact is that MQA files are, by definition, less similar to what was heard in the mastering studio than a straight FLAC or whatever. It's like saying that all photographs should be processed with the same Instagram filter, to 'bring out the detail'.

I'm not saying that what you experienced didn't sound amazing - there are loads of ways to make music sound amazing and 'tricking' an audience into hearing a huge improvement is a piece of piss if you're a competant audio engineer.

Total snake oil, basically. As far as I can tell it hasn't got anywhere near the traction that the major labels hoped it would - of course they want everyone to buy their music again, or upgrade to a more expensive streaming plan, but that ship sailed long ago. They tried it with HD-CD and DVD-A, both of which did offer a genuine improvement, but the fact is that the vast majority of the public are unable to hear the difference. Of those who can hear the difference, very few care enough to pay more money, and the number of people who have a neutral enough listening environment to really appreciate the subtleties that could be revealed is probably even fewer.

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby dirty leeds » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:44 am

Professor Weeto wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:
Professor Weeto wrote:As a mastering engineer myself I'm happy to report that the more rabid end of audiophilia is just as bizarre and baffling to those of us in the profession as it is to laymen.

Also, some remasters do sound better than the original. It's definitely not the norm, but technology has come a long way and if mastering engineers were actually allowed to do what they think sounds best rather than be dictated to by artists and labels - who often have a very distorted vision of what they assume the public wants - then I think most 'classic' records could be improved, sonically.


Don't think you were around on here at the time, but a while ago I went to the launch for MQA, a new type of digital file for music that reckons to have solved the compression problem affecting MP3s yet didn't take up the space of lossless. The general idea was then to re-release albums at Master quality sound. Anyway, they played us some well known music and it sounded amazing. You ran across it?
Invented by the fellas at Meridian: https://www.whathifi.com/advice/mqa-aud ... you-get-it


Yeah, MQA is considered to be an ansolute joke by every professional mastering engineer I know. They claim that their technology delivers the master 'as the artist intended', and that it somehow makes all music sound better. It's bollocks - if it worked as they describe then we mastering engineers would be baking it into the masters, not leaving it to some venture-funded tech company to sort out.

It's just another way of trying to get people to part with their money. All it really boils down to is a blue LED that turns on if the file is 'MQA'. It's marketing bullshit. The fact is that MQA files are, by definition, less similar to what was heard in the mastering studio than a straight FLAC or whatever. It's like saying that all photographs should be processed with the same Instagram filter, to 'bring out the detail'.

I'm not saying that what you experienced didn't sound amazing - there are loads of ways to make music sound amazing and 'tricking' an audience into hearing a huge improvement is a piece of piss if you're a competant audio engineer.

Total snake oil, basically. As far as I can tell it hasn't got anywhere near the traction that the major labels hoped it would - of course they want everyone to buy their music again, or upgrade to a more expensive streaming plan, but that ship sailed long ago. They tried it with HD-CD and DVD-A, both of which did offer a genuine improvement, but the fact is that the vast majority of the public are unable to hear the difference. Of those who can hear the difference, very few care enough to pay more money, and the number of people who have a neutral enough listening environment to really appreciate the subtleties that could be revealed is probably even fewer.


Interesting. The bit that interested me about it was actually the claim they could deliver top quality sound but not take up the same space as lossless. Doesn't it do that then?

They did play us the music through some brilliant Meridian speakers, tbf!

Professor Weeto
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:49 pm

Re: Dirty Music

Postby Professor Weeto » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:50 am

A far as I can remember (and it's a while since I read up on this) the file size difference is pretty negligable when compared to a 44.1khz, 16bit FLAC (CD quality). Yes, the files are a fair bit smaller than a 96khz, 24bit FLAC but their claims about the audio being the same quality as that file are bogus, so I don't think that's a particularly strong reason for using it.

They were also trying to force proprietary hardware into the situation (that lovely blue LED), when it is not technically needed to play back the file at all. Selling to the same people who pay £10,000 for a pair of speaker cables, I guess.

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Tommy
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:07 pm
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Dirty Music

Postby Tommy » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:22 am

Aja is the first thing I play whether I get any new audio equipment. I’ve done this for as long as I can remember but can’t remember why.

Professor Weeto
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:49 pm

Re: Dirty Music

Postby Professor Weeto » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:26 am

Tommy wrote:Aja is the first thing I play whether I get any new audio equipment. I’ve done this for as long as I can remember but can’t remember why.


Steely Dan are the audiophile wonk's jam of choice. Can't say I've ever particularly got it, tbh.

Munson
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Munson » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:44 am

Probably lost in translation, but these are the speakers you looking for...


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Blackwhite
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Blackwhite » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:31 pm

Flare:

"Price on application" = you can't afford our shit you fucking peasant.

Well that's that then. :(
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Devi
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:15 pm
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Devi » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:50 pm

Professor Weeto wrote:
Tommy wrote:Aja is the first thing I play whether I get any new audio equipment. I’ve done this for as long as I can remember but can’t remember why.


Steely Dan are the audiophile wonk's jam of choice. Can't say I've ever particularly got it, tbh.


I'm no audiophile, but the Chemical Brothers remix of Swastika Eyes is my go to for event sound checks...

I like it. What is it?

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Devi
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Crystal Palarse

Re: Dirty Music

Postby Devi » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:50 pm

Devi wrote:
Professor Weeto wrote:
Tommy wrote:Aja is the first thing I play whether I get any new audio equipment. I’ve done this for as long as I can remember but can’t remember why.


Steely Dan are the audiophile wonk's jam of choice. Can't say I've ever particularly got it, tbh.


I'm no audiophile, but the Chemical Brothers remix of Swastika Eyes is my go to for event sound checks... played loud.

I like it. What is it?

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Devi
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Crystal Palarse

Re: Dirty Music

Postby Devi » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:52 pm

Weirdz. Editing a post now simply posts it again with the edit.

Ho hum.
I like it. What is it?


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