Dirty Music

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Mustafaster
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Mustafaster » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:57 am

Tommy wrote:It’s hard not to bewail how technology changes our lives at times but it’s worth remembering that music existed for thousands of years before anyone worked out how to record it. It was pressed onto physical media and sold for how long? A hundred years or so? The vinyl resurgence shows that there will always be pockets of people who still want something physical in their hands but by and large most don’t care for it. Streaming is so intangible I don’t know how anyone can monetise it.

True dat.
Musicians only made money from recorded music for a very brief period from about 1940 to about 1990.
Before that it was all live.
In the 50s to the 90s bands did tours to promote the record, playing relatively small halls for not much money.

Today's market is the complete opposite. People make albums to promote the tour and merchandise.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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dirty leeds
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby dirty leeds » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:02 pm

Tommy wrote:It’s hard not to bewail how technology changes our lives at times but it’s worth remembering that music existed for thousands of years before anyone worked out how to record it. It was pressed onto physical media and sold for how long? A hundred years or so? The vinyl resurgence shows that there will always be pockets of people who still want something physical in their hands but by and large most don’t care for it. Streaming is so intangible I don’t know how anyone can monetise it.


When Spotify is about to be worth 20 billion as a public company, I think we can safely say someone has monetised it.

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Tycipa
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:39 pm

Re: Dirty Music

Postby Tycipa » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:35 pm

dirty leeds wrote:
Tommy wrote:It’s hard not to bewail how technology changes our lives at times but it’s worth remembering that music existed for thousands of years before anyone worked out how to record it. It was pressed onto physical media and sold for how long? A hundred years or so? The vinyl resurgence shows that there will always be pockets of people who still want something physical in their hands but by and large most don’t care for it. Streaming is so intangible I don’t know how anyone can monetise it.


When Spotify is about to be worth 20 billion as a public company, I think we can safely say someone has monetised it.

They’ve monetised the advertising not the music.

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dirty leeds
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby dirty leeds » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:43 pm

Tycipa wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:
Tommy wrote:It’s hard not to bewail how technology changes our lives at times but it’s worth remembering that music existed for thousands of years before anyone worked out how to record it. It was pressed onto physical media and sold for how long? A hundred years or so? The vinyl resurgence shows that there will always be pockets of people who still want something physical in their hands but by and large most don’t care for it. Streaming is so intangible I don’t know how anyone can monetise it.


When Spotify is about to be worth 20 billion as a public company, I think we can safely say someone has monetised it.

They’ve monetised the advertising not the music.


Strictly speaking, but they wouldn't have anything to stream without the music and they are not paying the artists anywhere close to enough.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby eric olthwaite » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:17 pm

dirty leeds wrote:
Tycipa wrote:They’ve monetised the advertising not the music.


Strictly speaking, but they wouldn't have anything to stream without the music and they are not paying the artists anywhere close to enough.


What is monetised is the music: it is that which has value and that for which the user pays.

The advertising is a mechanism which enables the value of the music to be realised.

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Tommy
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Tommy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:17 pm

Same as the major record labels of yore then. Working with them was voluntary then and now. Nobody actually forces you to put your music on the big streaming sites (though many do because it's another way to get people to your shows).

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby eric olthwaite » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:21 pm

Tommy wrote: but it’s worth remembering that music existed for thousands of years before anyone worked out how to record it


No it isn't.

Fucking nonsense statement that, really. I might equally say people 'did stuff' for thousands of years without being paid. So does that mean you'd be happy to go and do your job tomorrow and not be paid, on the basis of the precedent? I suspect not.

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Ponte
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Ponte » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:24 pm

Mustafaster wrote:Today's market is the complete opposite. People make albums to promote the tour and merchandise.

Very true, hence why gig tickets have gone from a few quid to £50-£100 a pop.
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening or sexually-orientated material. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned.
Hmmm.

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Tommy
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Tommy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:28 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:So does that mean you'd be happy to go and do your job tomorrow and not be paid, on the basis of the precedent? I suspect not.

No I'd find another job to earn money and if I cared about my old one enough to continue to do it as a hobby I'd fund it myself. Occupations prove to be financially unfeasible on a regular basis. It's shite when it happens but life goes on.

Ponte wrote:Very true, hence why gig tickets have gone from a few quid to £50-£100 a pop.

This might be a sign that you're going to the wrong gigs.

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dirty leeds
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby dirty leeds » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:37 pm

Tommy wrote:Same as the major record labels of yore then. Working with them was voluntary then and now. Nobody actually forces you to put your music on the big streaming sites (though many do because it's another way to get people to your shows).


If you don't put your music on the big streaming sites it makes it nigh on impossible to be heard widely. The dominant streaming sites are simply looking to replace the major record labels in terms of power. The artist has even less power with the streaming sites and far less remuneration.

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dirty leeds
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby dirty leeds » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:40 pm

Tommy wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:So does that mean you'd be happy to go and do your job tomorrow and not be paid, on the basis of the precedent? I suspect not.

No I'd find another job to earn money and if I cared about my old one enough to continue to do it as a hobby I'd fund it myself. Occupations prove to be financially unfeasible on a regular basis. It's shite when it happens but life goes on.


Tommy, I don't want to get back into this debate with you at great length all over again because you were talking arse before and you're talking arse again. You cannot make some of the greatest music ever made by doing it as a fucking hobby!!! As I said before, Miles Davis could not have been Miles Davis as a part-timer.

Anyway, unlike Mr. Reality, I still think you're a good bloke and not a weasel. :mrgreen:

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby eric olthwaite » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:17 pm

I think he's a good bloke and a weasel.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby eric olthwaite » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:27 pm

As a slight aside, it's interesting that recent hippety-hoppers seem to play a much stronger money game. F'rinstance moderately successful rappers A$AP Mob are, I suspect, now making much more money out of their clothing brand than they are from selling music.

It's a business model of sorts, I guess. Give your music away for nowt, make money from gigs, merch and limited edition Nike endorsements.

But it still only works if you can get to that level of popularity in the first place, which continues to mitigate against anyone making any sort of a musical career away from the mainstream.

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Ponte
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Ponte » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:29 pm

Tommy wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:So does that mean you'd be happy to go and do your job tomorrow and not be paid, on the basis of the precedent? I suspect not.

No I'd find another job to earn money and if I cared about my old one enough to continue to do it as a hobby I'd fund it myself. Occupations prove to be financially unfeasible on a regular basis. It's shite when it happens but life goes on.

Ponte wrote:Very true, hence why gig tickets have gone from a few quid to £50-£100 a pop.

This might be a sign that you're going to the wrong gigs.


Arena gigs are £50+ but even stuff at the old T&C can be £40-50
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening or sexually-orientated material. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned.
Hmmm.

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Tycipa
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:39 pm

Re: Dirty Music

Postby Tycipa » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:45 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:
Tycipa wrote:They’ve monetised the advertising not the music.


Strictly speaking, but they wouldn't have anything to stream without the music and they are not paying the artists anywhere close to enough.


What is monetised is the music: it is that which has value and that for which the user pays.

The advertising is a mechanism which enables the value of the music to be realised.

Oh do fuck off Eric and stop playing semantics. Spotify has never made a profit and yet apparently it has 60 million paying subscribers which at $10 a month means $7.2bn revenue a year! Something doesn’t add up! Anyway, music is unfortunately now viewed as a commodity and as such it is simply a vehicle for revenue.

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dirty leeds
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby dirty leeds » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:47 pm


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Mustafaster
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Mustafaster » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:30 pm

dirty leeds wrote:And then there's this: https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2017/1 ... downloads/

Aye. Talking to the local kids, they wouldn't dream of downloading anything. What's the point?
Feel sorry for 'em, because music is just a background noise to most of them.
Theres' still the odd kid who fancies learnign the guitar or whatever. I promised to take the neighbour's lass to our local music store this weekend to choose an amp for Xmas. She's got a guitar but nobody can give her any advice on gear. Her mates look at her like she's something from another planet. That weird lass who plays the guitar in her bedrooom.
Music just doesn't have the cultural gravity it had for older generations, too much other shite around them, and let's face it the quality of mainstream music is fuckin dire for the most part. I know it's always been true that most music is shit, but I don't see anything out there to excite kids. The good stuff is mostly rehashing of an old formula (Rock, Soul, Hip Hop...) I loved Winehouse, but she was rehashing stuff from 40 years ago or more.
Music is now like everything else. Disposable, ephemeral, merchandise... move on to the next thing asap.
Was reading somewhere that the intro time for new music these days is about 5 seconds before the vocals kick in. Any more than that and people just skip to the next song.

When I were a lad .... yada yada.
Oh shut up grandad!
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: London

Re: Dirty Music

Postby dirty leeds » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:55 pm

The other thing about that Apple bullshit is that iTunes sound quality isn't the same sound quality I want my stuff in. I upload lossless files. I have loads of 320 but I'm replacing as and when [which will take forever, but y'know... ].
I don't want to just stream.

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Mustafaster
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:02 am
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Re: Dirty Music

Postby Mustafaster » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:59 pm

dirty leeds wrote:The other thing about that Apple bullshit is that iTunes sound quality isn't the same sound quality I want my stuff in. I upload lossless files. I have loads of 320 but I'm replacing as and when [which will take forever, but y'know... ].
I don't want to just stream.

Yeah, but the likes of you and me are bloody dinosaurs.
We aren't the target market.
Most people are listening to music on tiny phone speakers or shitty buds, the sound quality is irrelevant.
Oddly, the sound engineers at live gigs these days go the opposite way, they crank up the bottom end on drums and bass to ridiculous bone-shaking levels.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Ponte
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Between a rock and a hard place.

Re: Dirty Music

Postby Ponte » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:08 pm

Mustafaster wrote:
dirty leeds wrote:The other thing about that Apple bullshit is that iTunes sound quality isn't the same sound quality I want my stuff in. I upload lossless files. I have loads of 320 but I'm replacing as and when [which will take forever, but y'know... ].
I don't want to just stream.

Yeah, but the likes of you and me are bloody dinosaurs.
We aren't the target market.
Most people are listening to music on tiny phone speakers or shitty buds, the sound quality is irrelevant.
Oddly, the sound engineers at live gigs these days go the opposite way, they crank up the bottom end on drums and bass to ridiculous bone-shaking levels.

I use my phone and BT connection for in car music but I still buy some stuff on CD to play at home simply because of the better sound quality. (I also still buy vinyl but i'm a bit of a hoarder).
I cannot understand why sound quality is of such low importance to some folk.
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening or sexually-orientated material. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned.
Hmmm.


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