Takeover thread

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Arnieb
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby Arnieb » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:29 am

Blackwhite wrote:The Pope can fuck off too with his dirty fucking money.


Leave Adam out of this - he's alreet.

jackos
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby jackos » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:33 am

moscowhite wrote:It'll be interesting to see how Delia Smith, Stuart Webber and Daniel Farke get on next season.


They have PL money, we don't, I'd happy to yoyo between the EPL and the Championship for s few years while we build our squad,/club.
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welshwhite
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby welshwhite » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:50 am

I don't think any of us expect to see us win the Premiership title and CL double, M.
Being realists I think most want to just see us promoted and slowly grow as a top to middling club.

Giving Bielsa and his future successor the proper tools to get the job done would be a good start.
Radz has stated many times he is unable to do that. He needs financial help and he's already out there with his begging bowl.

The fact that he's contemplating dealing with QSI means any grievances should be directed at him - bless him :thumbl:
He'll take money from any fucker, no doubt.
Maybe we should protest against him, I've got a long stick and some cardboard to make a placard.

Most supporters just want to see a bit more quality wearing the shirt (and hold onto our top youngsters, if possible) Can't see anything wrong with that?

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Tycipa
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby Tycipa » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:58 am

20 years ago we were building something but the foundations were built on sand. Radz is the first to start the underpinning, he isn’t out the ground yet and still some want to fuck him off and get another builder in. Now you know that never ends well!
The fact that we are not taking care of the planet, our children will pay the consequences. With football it will be the same because we're destroying football and in the future we'll see the negative effects. Those who have power are responsible for it.

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Phil LUFC
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby Phil LUFC » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:05 am

moscowhite wrote:We might not have any moral high ground to protect, but perhaps there's some we could try getting to? It's interesting to see Bayern Munich fans in that thread protesting against their club's sponsorship.

I've said this in an article and on the podcast, but ownerships of the Champions League final four disprove the idea that it's the Gulf way or nothing:

Liverpool: Fenway Sports Group, owned by financial trader
Spurs: essentially self-financing, owned by Daniel Levy, a fan since 1960s
Ajax: publicly traded on Dutch stock exchange
Barcelona: owned by members, ended Qatari sponsorship after PSG bought Neymar

It's easy to find problems with any of those because capitalism, but each is several significant degrees less bad than being owned by the government of Qatar. I'm not aware of anyone keeping a death toll of FSG employees.

The other argument is that QSI just don't seem very good at running football clubs. PSG look miles away from getting to a Champions League final, and if anything are closer to being banned from the competition for their overspending. They win the French league a lot but they did that before. Leeds fans are getting excited about spending power, but that's been Manchester United's tactic the last few seasons, and their major problem. I think the game might have moved on.

Liverpool won the Champions League in large part because they used the sale of Coutinho to pay for Van Dijk, Allison and Fabinho, players identified by their investment in analytics. They bought a player for a bit more than we paid for Bamford and sold him for more than £105m. Clever player trading won the Champions League, not having the richest owner.

Banging in loads of cash from the owner wasn't the tactic of any Champions League semi-finalist. So why do people keep saying it's the only way to succeed?

I'll start by stating I'd very much prefer it if we weren't Qatar owned/funded, just to make that clear.

After that, there's a world of difference between CL clubs (never mind semifinalists) and our predicament.

The spurs model is what I want, steady building over the long term but equally after 15 years of 2nd tier or worse I don't really want another 5 plus another 10 gradually moving up the Premier League table before being regular European qualifiers.

So the Liverpool model then, accelerating the above through extracting silly fees for our best players and effectively replacing them. It's all well and good but players are only worth the big numbers of the selling club can resist, which few clubs really can but it seems begging able to offer wage parity is key. If we get an offer for Phillips it'll be too low for us to get 3 quality players. I won't believe otherwise until we've actually done it (I'd rather have Vieira than Bamford at the club right now).

It's possible to extract bigger fees, Brentford have been selling strikers for 8 figure sums for years yet always seem to unearth a replacement. We don't seem to be able to and I'm convinced a large part of that is pressure/expectation at this club.

Ultimately there's no patience here, there no time to build slowly without someone losing their job and us starting our all again, not in this league. So a sizeable injection to be able to offer the best players the wages they can get elsewhere and to add players of that standard or better is very very attractive, no matter where it comes from.

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welshwhite
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby welshwhite » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:11 am

Tycipa wrote:20 years ago we were building something but the foundations were built on sand. Radz is the first to start the underpinning, he isn’t out the ground yet and still some want to fuck him off and get another builder in. Now you know that never ends well!


We once got promoted with an owner that brought quality to the club to match his ambition.
Leslie Silver fully backed Howard Wilkinson, the rest as they say is history.
That's what I want to see.

People want to forget that and just remember the Ridsdale years.
Have we forever got to use Ridsdale and Bates as yardsticks :shake1:

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Tycipa
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby Tycipa » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:15 am

welshwhite wrote:
Tycipa wrote:20 years ago we were building something but the foundations were built on sand. Radz is the first to start the underpinning, he isn’t out the ground yet and still some want to fuck him off and get another builder in. Now you know that never ends well!


We once got promoted with an owner that brought quality to the club to match his ambition.
Leslie Silver fully backed Howard Wilkinson, the rest as they say is history.

People want to forget that and just remember the Ridsdale years.

Silver was our Levy, shame he was hounded out of the club. The baton he passed on was dropped by the subsequent relay team.
The fact that we are not taking care of the planet, our children will pay the consequences. With football it will be the same because we're destroying football and in the future we'll see the negative effects. Those who have power are responsible for it.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby eric olthwaite » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:15 am

Tycipa wrote:20 years ago we were building something but the foundations were built on sand. Radz is the first to start the underpinning, he isn’t out the ground yet and still some want to fuck him off and get another builder in. Now you know that never ends well!


Phil LUFC wrote:Ultimately there's no patience here, there no time to build slowly without someone losing their job and us starting our all again, not in this league.


I'm happy to be patient, personally.

I think the biggest millstone round the neck of LUFC is the 'big club' mentality. The fact that we've had - in the last 100 years now - a couple of relatively brief periods of being half decent is toxic. Too many fans think we're owed a seat at the top table and that leads to a desperation for success which isn't really a good thing. If we were Barnsley and had just finished third, exceeding the season's expectations. and were keeping Bielsa for another shot, we'd be overjoyed without any mention of Qatari money.
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welshwhite
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby welshwhite » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:25 am

eric olthwaite wrote:
Tycipa wrote:20 years ago we were building something but the foundations were built on sand. Radz is the first to start the underpinning, he isn’t out the ground yet and still some want to fuck him off and get another builder in. Now you know that never ends well!


Phil LUFC wrote:Ultimately there's no patience here, there no time to build slowly without someone losing their job and us starting our all again, not in this league.


I'm happy to be patient, personally.

I think the biggest millstone round the neck of LUFC is the 'big club' mentality. The fact that we've had - in the last 100 years now - a couple of relatively brief periods of being half decent is toxic. Too many fans think we're owed a seat at the top table and that leads to a desperation for success which isn't really a good thing. If we were Barnsley and had just finished third, exceeding the season's expectations. and were keeping Bielsa for another shot, we'd be overjoyed without any mention of Qatari money.


We are a big club, with the right skipper we'd sail into being one of the top eight clubs no problem.
A potential of 40k crowds watching on a Saturday afternoon sort of backs up that claim.

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kennyb41
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby kennyb41 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:27 am

We used to send kids up chimneys and in between looms,they're just 100 years behind that's all.

And we're not fcking Barnsley.
Just coz you're paranoid doesn't mean people aren't after you....Show me a good loser and i'll show you a fcking loser...I owe I owe it's off to work I go.

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Terre Harte
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby Terre Harte » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:32 am

eric olthwaite wrote:
Tycipa wrote:20 years ago we were building something but the foundations were built on sand. Radz is the first to start the underpinning, he isn’t out the ground yet and still some want to fuck him off and get another builder in. Now you know that never ends well!


Phil LUFC wrote:Ultimately there's no patience here, there no time to build slowly without someone losing their job and us starting our all again, not in this league.


I'm happy to be patient, personally.

I think the biggest millstone round the neck of LUFC is the 'big club' mentality. The fact that we've had - in the last 100 years now - a couple of relatively brief periods of being half decent is toxic. Too many fans think we're owed a seat at the top table and that leads to a desperation for success which isn't really a good thing. If we were Barnsley and had just finished third, exceeding the season's expectations. and were keeping Bielsa for another shot, we'd be overjoyed without any mention of Qatari money.


Leeds is - what? - the fourth-largest urban area in England? West Yorkshire has more than twice the population of the Liverpool region. I know there’s Hudds and Bradford, but even taking them out of the metro population, Leeds is the largest city in England with just one league club.

Forget the history, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect a seat at the top table based on demographics alone.
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rss1969
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby rss1969 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:32 am

'Half decent' does not capture the Revie years. We were the blueprint for playing European football that Liverpool mastered.

Nor the Title winning team.......especially that midfield.

With a proper owner the Smith, Kewell, Bowyer etc team would also have progressed. They were class and held their own against the best in Europe despite mostly being home grown and years younger than the others.

This is the yardstick we are up against unfortunately (fair or not). The last 15 years have been a fucking dreadful nightmare, I will take some Qatari money and wake up happy for a change.

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Re: Takeover thread

Postby Wing Wizard » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:54 am

There are several "big clubs" in a similar position to us, Sunderland, Sheff Weds, Forest, to name three, who also command large support but that doesn't give them or us the right to be in the premier League.

Teams like Bournemouth, Southampton and Brighton improved year on year until finally they achieved promotion, they had a plan and with stable ownership they achieved their goal. They did sell players, often each summer but they replaced them often bringing in two or three for the one they lost.

We have the benefit of a good youth system, a highly regarded manager and large crowds so we are in a better position than most, but what we need is stability. Radz is 18 months into his tenure and has achieved a fair amount. The main problem I have with him is he seems to have unwavering confidence in Orta. Any appraisal of his player recommendations should surely have got Orta the sack, its not as if he came directly from abroad, he came from Boro. If we get an input of money from wherever this should go on two or three top players that raise the standard of the squad and we should also use the money to keep our best players.

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Phil LUFC
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Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Takeover thread

Postby Phil LUFC » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:59 am

eric olthwaite wrote:
Tycipa wrote:20 years ago we were building something but the foundations were built on sand. Radz is the first to start the underpinning, he isn’t out the ground yet and still some want to fuck him off and get another builder in. Now you know that never ends well!


Phil LUFC wrote:Ultimately there's no patience here, there no time to build slowly without someone losing their job and us starting our all again, not in this league.


I'm happy to be patient, personally.

I think the biggest millstone round the neck of LUFC is the 'big club' mentality. The fact that we've had - in the last 100 years now - a couple of relatively brief periods of being half decent is toxic. Too many fans think we're owed a seat at the top table and that leads to a desperation for success which isn't really a good thing. If we were Barnsley and had just finished third, exceeding the season's expectations. and were keeping Bielsa for another shot, we'd be overjoyed without any mention of Qatari money.

As per the other replies I think you've oversold it but 100% agree with the underlying point. We're not alone, we're one of any number of clubs operating below our perceived station and that brings with it all of the problems we collectively lack patience to fix properly. We see it every year elsewhere:
When Newcastle drop to the championship they make damn sure they go back up, villa tried to do the same but took 2 years to achieve it, Sunderland failed miserably as did Boro with what they let Monk spend (fuck knows how Sunderland are approaching league one financially but the parachute payment they still have should have guaranteed promotion twice over).

On the flip side how many over achieving well run "family clubs" have to win big before we go back up? Seems to be a long list now but not one of them is the blueprint for us because of the expectation. But... After 15 years away you'd like to think the first few PL seasons would be as unburdened as Grayson's 7th placed championship finish - that season was brilliant, helped massively by being stuffed a few times early in the season. There was no expectation to go up, the talk was "consolidate", Grayson would have kept his job if we'd finished 15th that season - no manager since can say that.

We've got to get out of this league while the going is good. I just hope it all looks good come August (and then goes to plan on three pitch).

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby eric olthwaite » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:14 am

Terre Harte wrote:Leeds is the largest city in England with just one league club.


A pedant writes: that might be Manchester, since Scum are from Salford. I dunno. maybe CoL is bigger than CoM.
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moscowhite
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby moscowhite » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:26 am

We're a weird mix as a club, because the 'divine right' to be at the top is a myth, but the power of our name and history means that, in the Premier League, I think we really would attract levels of sponsorship to take us past the middle group of Everton to Bournemouth in quite short order. Our games against Liverpool, Scum, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs will get the international broadcasters twitching in a way Huddersfield's fixtures never did. Add Bielsa to that and we're worth a fortune (his press conferences are already sponsored and shown in South America.)

Point being, we could get straight into the high-value sponsorship revenue that can take us forward, without the need to sell the entire club lock stock to Qatar.

What we need, as a few are pointing out, is to get the fuck out of this division. That means, basically, moving one place up the league table after last season. We've all looked at the stats and seen we had the best defence, the most creative forwards, but couldn't score for fuck. So we need players to maintain that level and a better striker.

Again, I don't think we need to sell the entire club off in exchange for one second division goalscorer.

Further to that, there's talk of loaning Timothy Weah, son of George, from PSG if QSI takeover. Given Bielsa will probably only accommodate one new striker (if any), betting our promotion on a nineteen year old with a career record of scoring against St Mirren (twice), St Johnstone and Airdrie (plus one for PSG against Caen) would be the sort of decision that would get Victor Orta run out of town, if it wasn't for the famous club and dad.

Then again, if he is the right player for us, if Celtic can loan him from PSG without being owned by QSI, why can't we?
'If you give Leeds the ball, they will make you dance.' - Johan Cruyff

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thestraw
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby thestraw » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:34 am

moscowhite wrote:
Further to that, there's talk of loaning Timothy Weah, son of George, from PSG if QSI takeover. Given Bielsa will probably only accommodate one new striker (if any), betting our promotion on a nineteen year old with a career record of scoring against St Mirren (twice), St Johnstone and Airdrie (plus one for PSG against Caen) would be the sort of decision that would get Victor Orta run out of town, if it wasn't for the famous club and dad.

Then again, if he is the right player for us, if Celtic can loan him from PSG without being owned by QSI, why can't we?

If he cant score for a rampant Celtic side that has the biggest budget and squad in a very poor SPL, he isn't the one for us. Regardless of who his Da is.
#MOT #GAWA

jackos
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby jackos » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:46 am

Tycipa wrote:. Radz is the first to start the underpinning, he isn’t out the ground yet and still some want to fuck him off and get another builder in. Now you know that never ends well!


Who wants Radz to fuck off? He gave himself five years to get us promoted and doubled down this season to bring in Bielsa - thus shortening those five years to three or four if he can find investors. Everything Radz has built could disappear in five seconds without outside investment. It just takes a few players like Casilla to sit on their fingers for a couple of seasons collecting 30K a week and we are well and truly fucked. The cards have been dealt, too late to stick.
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eric olthwaite
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby eric olthwaite » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:48 am

Phil LUFC wrote:As per the other replies I think you've oversold it but 100% agree with the underlying point.


Yep, simplifying to make a point, but the nature of most of the replies tells its own story.

Wing Wizard wrote:Teams like Bournemouth, Southampton and Brighton improved year on year until finally they achieved promotion, they had a plan and with stable ownership they achieved their goal.


That's the thing; progressing without the pressure of expectation. That Bournemouth can build and be broadly stable up there, with a 'natural' fanbase the same size as fucking York City, says something about history and the value of 40k stadia etc.
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Oheddieeddie
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Re: Takeover thread

Postby Oheddieeddie » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:07 am

look if Saiz had stayed or Huw Jenkins Biro hadn't run out, or we'd not had some kind of mental abberation when playing Sheffield United off the park, we'd be up now.

We are closer than anyone seems to realise.

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