O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

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AndyPaul
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby AndyPaul » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:20 am

I left the NHS two years ago to work private. I'd burst a blood vessel if I involve myself in any discussion about the NHS and how it's run.

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Mustafaster
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Mustafaster » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:45 am

Shorn Derry wrote:Nothing of what has happened to the NHS over the last 6 years has been voted for by the electorate. The Coalition came in with "No top down reorganisation" yet within weeks Lansley produced the bill so complex that no one understood it. This removed the government from any obligation to provide Healthcare. That's now various NHS organisations, CCGs NHS England etc., responsibility. All Government does is set the budgets for each organisation. In 2010 the NHS was in surplus, the deficit now is £2.4B. Between 2009 and 2020 the expenditure will have risen by £35B of which £24B is inflation, the remainder represents less than 1% per annum, this is the lowest increase since the NHS was founded. But even to balance the budget by 2020 requires £22B "efficiency" savings. Step forward "Sustainability and Transformation Plans", STP. I remember this as an additive I put in the oil of clapped out cars to try to improve performance and economy. It made no discernible improvement. In 1977 the company paid a $0.5 M civil penalty over claims it made and in 1996 $0.9M for false advertising.
I owe my last 46 years of life to the NHS. It wasn't clapped out in 2010 when bequeathed to the present Government, but it will be by 2020. Ten disastrous years. It makes me ashamed to live in the UK. We face hospital closures, A&E facilities being withdrawn to all but 40 specialist hospitals and the continuing demise of care for the elderly - of which I will be one.
We should all get off our arses and fight this situation. If not we will no longer live in a civilised country.


"This is how it goes, You starve a public service of funds until it no longer works and people get angry.
Then you can privatise it..
You can't privatise a successful, efficient public service that everyone loves."

N. Chomsky.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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ddwhite
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O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby ddwhite » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:08 pm

Mustafaster wrote:
Shorn Derry wrote:Nothing of what has happened to the NHS over the last 6 years has been voted for by the electorate. The Coalition came in with "No top down reorganisation" yet within weeks Lansley produced the bill so complex that no one understood it. This removed the government from any obligation to provide Healthcare. That's now various NHS organisations, CCGs NHS England etc., responsibility. All Government does is set the budgets for each organisation. In 2010 the NHS was in surplus, the deficit now is £2.4B. Between 2009 and 2020 the expenditure will have risen by £35B of which £24B is inflation, the remainder represents less than 1% per annum, this is the lowest increase since the NHS was founded. But even to balance the budget by 2020 requires £22B "efficiency" savings. Step forward "Sustainability and Transformation Plans", STP. I remember this as an additive I put in the oil of clapped out cars to try to improve performance and economy. It made no discernible improvement. In 1977 the company paid a $0.5 M civil penalty over claims it made and in 1996 $0.9M for false advertising.
I owe my last 46 years of life to the NHS. It wasn't clapped out in 2010 when bequeathed to the present Government, but it will be by 2020. Ten disastrous years. It makes me ashamed to live in the UK. We face hospital closures, A&E facilities being withdrawn to all but 40 specialist hospitals and the continuing demise of care for the elderly - of which I will be one.
We should all get off our arses and fight this situation. If not we will no longer live in a civilised country.


"This is how it goes, You starve a public service of funds until it no longer works and people get angry.
Then you can privatise it..
You can't privatise a successful, efficient public service that everyone loves."

N. Chomsky.


And the fucking bbc telling us so every day it's so obvious. Cunts

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Shorn Derry
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O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Shorn Derry » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:42 pm

"This is how it goes, You starve a public service of funds until it no longer works and people get angry.
Then you can privatise it..
You can't privatise a successful, efficient public service that everyone loves."

N. Chomsky.[/quote]

But apparently we're beyond even that, a railway franchise fails and "gives" its franchise back. Run as a publicly owned company in profit, then put back into private hands.

All done for the benefit of the owners of the private sector firms, not the customers, the employees or the taxpayer.

The smugness of the leading government ministers means that any problems are due to the "militant" unions. Listened to the Customer Services? Director of Southern Rail who was asked why things had been so disastrous over the past 6 months, easily answered the intransigent unions. Was then given a quote from over two years ago from a rail users body body decrying the Service and was allowed simply to repeat the answer. Never take any responsibility for anything.

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Blackwhite
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Blackwhite » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:50 pm

You can imagine inner city general practice, or something similarly unprofitable, being subject to the same craziness.

"We can't make enough out of these cunts, so fuck'em."
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Blackwhite » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:33 am

Hospital crisis deepens: cancer operations cancelled because they can't guarantee patient safety.


Labour: get on this or I think I might decide you're not good for anything.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Blackwhite
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Blackwhite » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:23 am

Crisis deepens further: what kind of civilised society are we, to cancel people's cancer operations for political reasons and potentially allow this disease to spread and become incurable? Who the fuck are these Whitehall cunts to do this and not care? THESE ARE REAL PEOPLE, PAWNS IN A CUNT'S GAME.

Today, writing for this newspaper, the chair of King’s College Hospital, London, Lord Kerslake, a former head of the civil service, suggests Theresa May’s government is not sufficiently in touch with the reality facing NHS hospitals and staff to appreciate the severity of the crisis.

While ministers play down the pressures as normal for midwinter, and direct blame at managers and GPs, Kerslake says the only way services are maintained at current levels is because of “extraordinary efforts of both senior and frontline staff”. He adds: “Even with this, the picture is of enormous fragility, not just at my trust but across the whole NHS.”


Kerslake also sides with Simon Stevens, chief executive of NHS England, who last week questioned the prime minister’s claim about NHS funding, after No 10 officials began a briefing war against him. His remarks come after Dr Sarah Wollaston, chair of the Commons health select committee, criticised the government for blaming GPs for the crisis. She said in a tweet: “Pretty dismal stuff for govt to scapegoat GPs for very serious NHS pressures. Failure to understand the complexity or own responsibility.”

Investigations by the Observer show that appointments for cancer operations began to be cancelled in December and that trend has accelerated this year. Leeds Teaching Hospitals Trust, one of the largest and best-regarded NHS trusts in England, has this month had to cancel bookings for some complex cancer operations, as well as more straightforward cases. Its doctors say that lack of post-operation intensive care beds has forced them to postpone surgery. One patient, Andy Claridge, was due for a radical robotic prostatectomy at the Leeds trust on 7 January but received an email from a clinical services manager the day before, postponing treatment.


The email said: “Unfortunately the trust has had to cancel planned surgery due to the lack of inpatient beds. All three of our planned surgical cases for this Saturday have been cancelled as a result. I understand from my surgical colleagues that they are trying to open a list on 28 January to replace the 7 January. I will let you know once I get confirmation. On behalf of the team, may I apologise for this situation which has been imposed on us.”


Claridge told the Observer he fears the delay will cause his cancer to worsen. “I found out in an email. I didn’t even get a phone call. It’s highly unusual for this to happen. My consultant said cancelling cancer operations was unprecedented. Hearing this news knocked me sideways. I had prepared mentally for surgery and I felt completely defeated, like someone had zapped me of energy. I felt so let down. My partner was also devastated.

“I know my cancer is operable and there are many more in worse situations, but I worry about my cancer getting bigger the longer I have to wait. When Jeremy Hunt says the NHS is coping, he needs to really look at what is happening. If a hospital is cancelling cancer operations then it isn’t coping.”

Clare Marx, president of the Royal College of Surgeons, confirmed that a system under which cancer operations were protected had given way. “Historically, they have been protected due to their urgent nature. However, feedback from our members suggests that since the start of January, a large number of hospitals across the UK are now cancelling cancer surgery. This will be extremely worrying to patients and their families. It is heartbreaking for a surgeon to have to explain to a patient who has cancer that their operation has had to be cancelled as there are no beds available. It is increasingly clear that no part of the system and no patient is immune from the pressure the NHS is experiencing.”

Jonathan Ashworth, shadow health secretary, blamed ministers. “This is shocking and brings into sharp focus the reality of how the NHS crisis is now impacting patient care. I cannot imagine the intolerable emotional strain cancelling these operations must place on cancer sufferers.It’s shameful this is happening in Theresa May’s Britain.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Mustafaster
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Mustafaster » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:01 am

Labour should be knocking this out of the park, the useless scumbags.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Blackwhite
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Blackwhite » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:18 am

Yeah, my anger with them is building. I'm going to give it one week, while asking them why they're doing fuck all, and then I'm drawing knives for Corbyn. Shame really. But if he can't score here, he's fucked.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Devi
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Devi » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:18 am

Mustafaster wrote:Labour should be knocking this out of the park, the useless scumbags.


Should be.

Won't.

Because shambles.
I like it. What is it?

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Tycipa
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Tycipa » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:27 am

Blackwhite wrote:Yeah, my anger with them is building. I'm going to give it one week, while asking them why they're doing fuck all, and then I'm drawing knives for Corbyn. Shame really. But if he can't score here, he's fucked.

Not about scoring points though is it. The NHS is in a mess and neither stripe of Gov't has managed to get to grips with it. Unfortunately it sounds once again that the NHS is being used as a political football.
This has been going on for decades though, the gradual decline of the NHS, and I'm beginning to wonder if it's beyond fixing and that we'll always just have to muddle along somehow.

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Blackwhite
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Blackwhite » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:38 am

Seriously, are you fucking kidding me T?
These are things being done deliberately now by a party that openly said they would kill the NHS. Meanwhile people are watching their tumours grow. Others are dying needlessly, or being refused therapies that exist and extend life.

Who do these cunts think they are?

They should count themselves lucky I'm not hanging them from a fucking lamp post, let alone score points with it. The record under Labour was misguided and accelerated private entry, but did add real funding and value. To compare it to this cuntery is wrong, completely. It very much is about showing what is being done, by who, and why. Just exhibiting those MPs of both parties with financial involvement in private health providers likely to profit, for instance. Recuse yourselves from voting, cunts.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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AndyPaul
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby AndyPaul » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:49 am

Mustafaster wrote:Labour should be knocking this out of the park, the useless scumbags.


I've worked in the NHS. The rot started under the labour government.

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Mustafaster
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Mustafaster » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:29 am

AndyPaul wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:Labour should be knocking this out of the park, the useless scumbags.


I've worked in the NHS. The rot started under the labour government.

Well, seeing as how the NHS is the biggest employer in Europe a lot of people can say they've worked in the NHS.
I did for a number of years.
I don't see how those two statements of yours are connected tbh.
Yes PFI was a big error in hindsight, but under Blair and Brown the NHS did receive a huge increase in funding.

It's as clear as day what's happening. Social care is being decimated, which puts ever more strain on the NHS. This is deliberate policy.
If you want to privatise a public service you starve it of funding until it crashes and people demand something be done. You can't privatise a popular, efficient public service.

My sister's a nurse in a high dependency unit, she tells me the only way it keeps going is the good will and dedication of the staff.
That alone cannot keep it going indefinitely.
If it doesn't crash this winter, it will the next.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Vampire
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Vampire » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:31 am

Tycipa wrote:The NHS is in a mess and neither stripe of Gov't has managed to get to grips with it. Unfortunately it sounds once again that the NHS is being used as a political football.
This has been going on for decades though, the gradual decline of the NHS, and I'm beginning to wonder if it's beyond fixing and that we'll always just have to muddle along somehow.


Exactly right, Tycipa. And a predictable response from BW (who exemplifies the point you make re political football - cancer patients as much a pawn to him as those he would "hang from a fucking lamp post.")

Given that the UK seems so emotionally (and perhaps strangely) attached to the NHS model whilst being reluctant to fund it through the additional taxation that would be required - it seems to me that the solution requires both right and left to give ground on their sacred cows.

First the right. They have to concede that current funding is woefully inadequate. Health inflation far outstrips general inflation because the population is aging and new medical procedures to keep them alive are ever more expensive. I know this (apart from the economic stats) from personal experience - every year my health insurance premiums rise three or four times the rate of inflation. Yet, in the UK, NHS spending is projected to rise barely 1% per annum over the decade 2010 to 2020 (slashing health expenditure as a percentage of UK GDP when it should be rising). On that projection, demand will outstrip supply by GBP20 Billion by 2020. Totally unrealistic.

Second the left. They have to stop viewing the NHS as some sort of perfect time warp and open up to reform and efficiency. The public simply won't vote for all the additional demand through taxation alone - regardless of what they tell pollsters.

Why is "free at the point of use" such a sacred principle? It means a millionaire pays nothing to visit a GP. A small contribution from those who can afford it will provide additional funds and reduces demand (since making any service "free" increases demand beyond that based on need). You could better integrate hospital and social services to reduce the number of "bed blockers" in hospitals when they could be in alternative elderly care. Spend more on preventative care - it's cheaper to prevent illnesses than treat them. Your model incentivises NHS providers by treatments performed - not overall public health in their areas. And how about rationalising back office costs through GP super clinics and larger specialised hospitals rather than locally based community services?

Ultimately it is about supply and demand (they don't match in your current model). So, the right has to concede additional supply of funds; and the left has to better manage demand even if that means giving up a few sacred cows.
There will be no end to the problems afflicting mankind until economists become rulers, or, by some miracle, rulers become economists.

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Blackwhite
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Blackwhite » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:37 am

I'd missed this week's PMQs, starting here about 3 minutes in: May is fucking useless, as bad as Corbyn.




More fire needed by far next week, and a lot more joined-up press work to get the issues out there.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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Mustafaster
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Mustafaster » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:36 pm

Listening to the news on R4.
The NHS has collapsed. When cancer operations are cancelled due to pressure from a fairly mild winter I think we can fairly say it's unfit for purpose.
The Tories must be chuffed to bits over their Halibut and Asparagus compôt in the Carlton Club.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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AndyPaul
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby AndyPaul » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:09 pm

Mustafaster wrote:
AndyPaul wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:Labour should be knocking this out of the park, the useless scumbags.


I've worked in the NHS. The rot started under the labour government.

Well, seeing as how the NHS is the biggest employer in Europe a lot of people can say they've worked in the NHS.
I did for a number of years.
I don't see how those two statements of yours are connected tbh.
Yes PFI was a big error in hindsight, but under Blair and Brown the NHS did receive a huge increase in funding.

It's as clear as day what's happening. Social care is being decimated, which puts ever more strain on the NHS. This is deliberate policy.
If you want to privatise a public service you starve it of funding until it crashes and people demand something be done. You can't privatise a popular, efficient public service.

My sister's a nurse in a high dependency unit, she tells me the only way it keeps going is the good will and dedication of the staff.
That alone cannot keep it going indefinitely.
If it doesn't crash this winter, it will the next.


I'll just shut the fuck up then and crawl back under my rock.

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Dale White
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Dale White » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:29 pm

Labour built a new hospital here with a brand new state of the art a & e department, Tories shut it within a year of being elected, all the beds and equipment is still there all covered up.
FUCK OFF BATES !!!

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Blackwhite
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Re: O/T The NHS Appreciation Memorial Thread

Postby Blackwhite » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:28 pm

For some reason, I never expected much of Simon Stevens. He's been pretty damn solid, TBF.

Simon Stevens intends to remain as the boss of NHS England for at least the next two years and tough out his tense relationship with Theresa May, despite Downing Street aides briefing against him.

The chief executive will keep setting out his views about NHS funding, but he will stop making the case in public for more money for social care – which has antagonised May – in a bid to repair relations with No 10.

Stevens laid bare the deep divisions between himself and May over the NHS’s finances at the public accounts committee on Wednesday, when he repeatedly contradicted her views on how much money the service was getting and needed.

Allies dismissed briefings against Stevens by some of May’s officials, which portrayed him as “unenthusiastic” and “unresponsive”. They said the comments were “a massive strategic blunder by No 10” and that he planned to remain in post until 2019 in order to personally oversee his promised “transformation” of where and how patients are cared for by a radically modernised NHS.

But his allies acknowledged that the likelihood of the NHS’s ongoing winter crisis deepening further could lead to further difficulties for Stevens with May and her team, especially if the chaos engulfing many hospitals sparked a political blame game.

“At the moment, Simon intends to stick in. He’s fired up, he’s ready for the challenge, not the challenge of dealing with No10 – that’s irrelevant. What matters to him is the really, really hard job of changing the NHS to make it better,” one friend said.

Supporters said Stevens was not cowed by Downing Street’s irritation with him being aired in a national newspaper hours before he gave evidence to MPs about the NHS’s finances. However, he will stop arguing publicly for money currently used to fund the “triple lock” for pensioners to instead be ploughed into social care, a suggestion No 10 aides saw as him offering solutions to a pressing political question outside his remit.

May’s spokeswoman insisted on Thursday that the prime minister still had full confidence in Stevens, even after his punchy performance on Wednesday, which was watched closely in Westminster.

However, government insiders say privately they are determined not to loosen the purse strings before Stevens has shown he can carry out reforms. “There are definitely questions about effectiveness and efficiency,” said one source, adding that little had changed – apart from the traditional pressures of winter – since the funding deal with the NHS was struck by David Cameron’s government.

Government sources insisted the spat with Stevens was not a clash of personalities but was more about concerns over whether he was carrying out the radical reforms that were the quid pro quo for extra funding.

Conservative MP Andrew Murrison said that May may well seek to replace Stevens before 2020 with “somebody she can rely upon running an organisation that’s going to be of extreme political importance as we get closer to the next general election”.

Murrison, a minister under David Cameron and former surgeon, added: “Stevens was correct in his evidence to the public accounts committee; he said it like it is on NHS funding, especially about the disparity between healthcare spending in the UK and that in economies which the UK can reasonably be compared to, notably Germany. But there’s clearly a feud between him and Downing Street. It would not surprise me if No 10 looked unfavourably on Simon Stevens, given what’s happened over the last 24 hours.”

But another Tory MP, who did not want to be named, backed Stevens.

“My view is that Simon Stevens is correct and Jeremy Hunt did say going into the election that ‘we will give the NHS what it needs’. The reality is that is going to mean the government making up more of the £30bn [projected gap in NHS funding by 2020] that was identified and it needs to be real terms increases.

“There is no current active dislike among Tory MPs for Stevens, except from the hard right who have always viewed him as a Labour special advisor, and therefore with scepticism.”

Nigel Edwards, the chief executive of the Nuffield Trust thinktank, said the pointed comments made by Stevens to MPs showed he was demonstrating the independence given to NHS England in the shakeup implemented by the coalition government. “A series of further flashpoints are coming up with a difficult winter continuing and a severe strain on finances and staff. A constructive relationship between the government and NHS leaders is essential,” he said.

Prof Chris Ham, the chief executive of the Kings Fund, said: “Depending on the severity of winter pressure and then the end-of-year position, there is bound to be a debate on who is to be held accountable for the financial and operational pressures. Because of the complexity of the system, it is unclear whether the buck stops with the Department of Health, NHS England or NHS Improvement. This means that it could be any one of Jeremy Hunt, Simon Stevens or Jim Mackey who find themselves in the firing line.”

You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.


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