t'premier leeg.

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Arnieb
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:06 am

Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby Arnieb » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:28 am

jackos wrote:Wouldn't the best option be to respond "off you fuck" to the clubs who fancy joining the EFL? If they want to relegate themselves why not let them? The FA controls what happens in English football, it has it's golden share, and it controls which clubs entre the champions league. If Fenway and the Glazers want to go it alone, "off you fuck". The only reason the top European clubs haven't broken away from UEFA and their national associations is because they know it isn't in their best interests. Fuck them if they want to try. Let AFC United be the biggest Association FC in Manchester if their neighbours owners think they have a product they can sell independently.


Yep! Weirdly the prospect of going into the EFL a few years ago wouldn't have been that bad for them with Leeds, Villa, WBA, Sheff Utd in there. At the moment the only largeish clubs in the champ are Forest, Derby and Maybe sheff wed.

I'd agree with your key point though - if a European super League was such a great idea, then it would have happened by now. It hasn't as for most big teams the national League is still regarded as the bedrock of competition.

Certain aspects of this deal I can live with - I like abolishing parachute payments and giving the money more evenly to the EFL - but it needs to be phased in with mandatory relegation clauses. I am not too fussed about abolishing the league cup or charity shield. However the power grab can fuck off, as can the TV money.

I suspect this will end with a compromise - the real prize for the Americans is getting some games on PPV and replacing the league cup with more lucrative Harlem Globetrotters style preseason friendlies.

London_White
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:17 pm
Location: exiled in west sussex

Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby London_White » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:30 am

Just somewhere to start the negotiations - or a prelude to the Big Six taking their ball away and playing somewhere else?
I tend towards the latter - think we now have owners who are not 'invested' in the clubs themselves and what they represent to the supporters, far more than we have ever had.
The days of someone like Jack Walker or Dave Whelan pumping loads of cash into 'their' club are gone. Now we have a bunch of owners whose sole focus is making more money for themselves and fuck the cost to anyone else.
The idea that the £250m per year to the EFL is some great gift is only seen as that by the clubs that got next to nothing in the first place - the PL probably paid something close to the £250m per year already when you take into account the parachute payments. I'm not surprised that clubs in the lower reaches like the idea - they have no realistic aspirations of making the PL, their main focus is trying to survive in an ever harsher climate. It's clubs in the PL and Championship that this will affect the most - more relegation pressure on the 'bottom half' teams, less chance of bouncing straight back up etc.
Interesting that WHU and Saints got the 'long service award vote' when Villa and Newcastle have spent longer in the PL than both of them and also longer than City.
Greg Clarke was apparently involved in the early discussions but when the bigger red teams threatened to go off and form their own league if the PL didn't agree he left the discussions.
The bit about keeping football at weekends appeals but you can see where the real motivation is - lucrative friendlies, exhibition games etc all on PPV round the world until people want to see more of City v Barca, Chelsea v Juve, Arsenal v Bayern, Spuds v PSG etc and the European League closed shop gets ever closer

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Professor Weeto
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:49 pm

Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby Professor Weeto » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:35 am

London_White wrote:Interesting that WHU and Saints got the 'long service award vote' when Villa and Newcastle have spent longer in the PL than both of them and also longer than City.


Yeah, well, this is clearly a case of artificially tailoring the criterea to make sure Man City are included, isn't it. Can't have them not being one of the 'big' clubs or it would ruin the whole conceit.

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
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Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby Phil LUFC » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:37 am

Current solidarity payments and parachute payments are more or less 10% I think so the uplift to 25% (in addition to £250m now) is a substantial carrot to be dangling. I suppose £100m of it is instantly converted by a drop from 20 to 18 teams assuming that doesn't reduce the value of "the product".

I imagine the power grab will be blocked but most other aspects will happen, the cost of the power grab might mean the value to the EFL drops to 20% but they'd still take it.

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the flying pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby the flying pig » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:40 am

London_White wrote:...the European League closed shop gets ever closer


i tend to agree with arnie that a European superleague, to the exclusion of a domestic PL, wouldn't be attractive to the English big si... the lucrative PL tv rights, which are only possible because of the quality of the competition, are the only reason why a club like spurs are even remotely in the same financial league as monopolists like Bayern [who are followed by pretty much every floating glory supporter in a country of 85m people], Juve [ditto within Italy], now PSG in france [traditionally poorly supported but gathering momentum quickly with all that oil money], and the duopolists Real/Barca. There's no way imo that six English clubs can *all* match those giants if they're entering the same set of competitions, maybe one or two can but not the whole set, particularly if clubs like manyoo & bayern are heavily pushing a strictly enforced version of FFP... even without factoring in the impact of the lack of relegation battles, same language supporter rivalries, and so on. the big six will always want to have their cake and eat it, i.e. keep their lucrative domestic competition whilst expanding international competition at the same time. It's the clubs with the broken/nonexistent domestic competitions [Bayern, most obviously, Juve too, maybe PSG if proper FFP doesn't come attached] who'd be most in favour of a total breakaway.

jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby jackos » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:55 am

the flying pig wrote:but if the EFL was behind this scam then it would stop promotion to what was left of the 14-club PL... a closed 14 club PL without [or even with] the 'big six' would be a fairly abysmal competition, it'd be the 14 who became rebels/outcasts rather than the 6... what could the 14 do... say invite Rangers and Celtic to join? it'd still be shit, honestly. and TBH if the 14 were to make that offer i daresay the 6 would be prepared to match it?


I don't see how that would work, it would require the support of all of the 'big six', the majority of the EFL and the clubs would have to leave the FA, meaning they would be leaving UEFA and FIFA. Starting a civil war in English football just to keep two yank Billionaires happy?

Cess and Scum would have to be very naive the think their plan would be accepted in it entirety, it's very possible that they are precisely that. I doubt it fits well with long term goals of Abu Dhabi United Group, Daniel Levy or even Abramovich.
Traditional Socialist Bastard

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the flying pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby the flying pig » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:59 am

jackos wrote:
the flying pig wrote:but if the EFL was behind this scam then it would stop promotion to what was left of the 14-club PL... a closed 14 club PL without [or even with] the 'big six' would be a fairly abysmal competition, it'd be the 14 who became rebels/outcasts rather than the 6... what could the 14 do... say invite Rangers and Celtic to join? it'd still be shit, honestly. and TBH if the 14 were to make that offer i daresay the 6 would be prepared to match it?


I don't see how that would work, it would require the support of all of the 'big six', the majority of the EFL and the clubs would have to leave the FA, meaning they would be leaving UEFA and FIFA. Starting a civil war in English football just to keep two yank Billionaires happy?...


yeah, you're assuming that the FA itself [as opposed to the one-club-one-vote Premier League, whose continued opposition is obviously a given] will remain forever opposed. you might be right but i'm not sure it's a given. they've already been offered £100m. double that and heads will surely start to be turned.

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the flying pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby the flying pig » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:01 am

i suppose the 14 need to quickly put together something decent and viable that gives the EFL what it needs, something as good or near as damnit as what scum/cess are offering. if they do that then big picture will be dead in the water? it'd involve a decent haircut for all of the 20, as opposed to a big one for the 14 and an enriching of the 6.

i must say, our decision to really go for broke with transfers this summer/autumn is starting to look worse by the day.

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the flying pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby the flying pig » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:04 am

jackos wrote:...Cess and Scum would have to be very naive the think their plan would be accepted in it entirety, it's very possible that they are precisely that...


they both have a record of trying it on, e.g. the fenway £77 a match tickets, it only took 10,000 scousers walking out in the 77th minute of a game for that plan to be insta-ditched. also when the whatever hit the fan the glazers quickly withdrew their opposition to fans doing that 'asset of community value' thing for OT.

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Bobbycollins
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Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby Bobbycollins » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:23 pm

the flying pig wrote:i must say, our decision to really go for broke with transfers this summer/autumn is starting to look worse by the day.

Doesn't it depend on our success? I'm not sure about the current season, however every place up in the EPL table was worth around £2m in merit payments and the better our results, the more likely we are to appear on live TV both in the UK and abroad, which will generate larger revenue.

As I remember saying to Ridsdale, "It's only money - what can go wrong?"

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
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Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby dirty leeds » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:43 pm


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Blackwhite
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Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby Blackwhite » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:28 pm

Bald Cunt with pony tail is cunt shocka.


Good, glad they've been told to fuck off.
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
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Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby dirty leeds » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:14 pm

Fuck you, Big Two:


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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
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Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby dirty leeds » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:18 pm

EPL statement, borrowed from LUFC site:

Statement regarding Project Big Picture.
All 20 Premier League clubs today unanimously agreed that Project Big Picture will not be endorsed or pursued by the Premier League, or The FA.

Further, Premier League Shareholders agreed to work together as a 20-club collective on a strategic plan for the future structures and financing of English football, consulting with all stakeholders to ensure a vibrant, competitive and sustainable football pyramid. Clubs will work collaboratively, in an open and transparent process, focusing on competition structure, calendar, governance and financial sustainability. This project has the full support of The FA and will include engagement with all relevant stakeholders including fans, Government and, of course, the EFL.

Also at today’s meeting it was agreed to make available a rescue package which aims to ensure that League One and League Two clubs will not go out of business as a result of the financial impact of COVID-19 and be able to complete the 2020/21 season.

League One and League Two clubs rely more heavily on matchday revenue and have fewer resources at their disposal than Championship or Premier League clubs and are therefore more at risk, especially at a time when fans are excluded from attending matches. This offer will consist of grants and interest-free loans totalling a further £50 million on top of the £27.2m solidarity payments already advanced to League One and League Two this year, making a total of £77.2m. Discussions will also continue with the EFL regarding Championship clubs’ financial needs. This addresses Government concerns about lower league clubs’ financial fragility.

Football is not the same without attending fans and the football economy is unsustainable without them. The Premier League and all our clubs remain committed to the safe return of fans as soon as possible.

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Mustafaster
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:02 am
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Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby Mustafaster » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:18 pm

dirty leeds wrote:Fuck you, Big Two:


Collapse of stout parties.
Lasted almost three days.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
Location: London

Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby dirty leeds » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:29 pm

Mustafaster wrote:Collapse of stout parties.


Left organising plump discos.

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Mustafaster
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Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby Mustafaster » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:31 pm

dirty leeds wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:Collapse of stout parties.


Left organising plump discos.

Wonder when they're going to fuck off to the EFL as promised.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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AndyPaul
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:27 am

Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby AndyPaul » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:33 pm

So if everyone rejected the plan why did scum and cess reject their own idea?

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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
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Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby dirty leeds » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:50 pm

AndyPaul wrote:So if everyone rejected the plan why did scum and cess reject their own idea?


Because they are cunts.

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Blackwhite
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:07 am
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Re: t'premier leeg.

Postby Blackwhite » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:08 pm

dirty leeds wrote:
AndyPaul wrote:So if everyone rejected the plan why did scum and cess reject their own idea?


Because they are cunts.

IBM Watson has run the numbers, and this statement checks out :thumbl:
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.


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