Football Finances

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Football Finances

Postby jackos » Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:49 pm

Looks like Bournemouth are facing a fine but QPR still haven't paid theirs . ...


Championship sides Bolton, Fulham and Nottingham Forest are under a transfer embargo for the rest of the season after breaching Football League rules in 2014-15.

Fulham and Forest both exceeded Financial Fair Play limits of permitted maximum losses of £6m for a season.

Bolton failed to submit their required accounts and are unable make transfers until they comply with FFP obligations.

Premier League Bournemouth face a fine after also exceeding the permitted sum.

The Cherries were promoted to the top flight after winning the Championship last season.

Millwall also exceeded the allowance but have not been punished after they were relegated to League One.

What the FFP embargo means
Clubs are not permitted to pay (or commit to pay) transfer fees or compensation fees for professional players.
Clubs can sign a goalkeeper on an emergency basis.
Clubs cannot pay a loan fee to another club, they may only pay the player's wage (or a contribution towards it).
For incoming players, clubs can only pay agents' fees as a benefit in kind to the player in question (as long as they do not exceed the £600,000 employee costs limit).
Clubs can register players under the age of 21 for non-first team matches.
Fulham and Forest will have the opportunity to have the embargoes lifted in June.

To do so, they will need to prove they have stayed within an operating loss of no more than £3m, with a maximum of £3m of shareholder investment for the 2015-16 season.

The ban for Forest is an extension on their current one, having been unable to sign players since December 2014 because of FFP restrictions placed on them.

Bolton, who have £172.9m of debt, said they were confident they would achieve FFP, but said they would be unable to sign and submit their accounts "until both the short and longer term funding issues the club are currently facing are resolved".

Meanwhile, the Football League said it is also in discussions with a number of other clubs over their FFP submissions, with any further embargoes "to be announced in due course".

One of those clubs is understood to be Premier League leaders Leicester.

Bournemouth said they were hopeful of a satisfactory outcome after confirming they were in discussions with the Football League about their sanction. Their fine has not been revealed.

QPR breached FFP rules in 2013-14 - the season they were promoted to the Premier League - and face a fine of up to £58m.

They announced their intent to challenge the legality of the Football League's FFP rules on 11 May, the day after they were relegated back to the Championship. That process is still ongoing.
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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Football Finances

Postby Quiffy » Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:26 pm

we all know that wages are 92% of success and bournemouth could be used to prove this. trouble is millwall also got done for breaking FFP rules and they got relegated.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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Man Called Sun
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:26 am
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Re: Football Finances

Postby Man Called Sun » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:10 pm

Quiffy wrote:we all know that wages are 92% of success and bournemouth could be used to prove this. trouble is millwall also got done for breaking FFP rules and they got relegated.

The bit in the statement about Millwall's great: Millwall's broke the rules but we've let em off cos they're clearly still shite.
Float like a butterfly and sting like one.

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Football Finances

Postby jackos » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:27 pm

Quiffy wrote:we all know that wages are 92% of success and bournemouth could be used to prove this. trouble is millwall also got done for breaking FFP rules and they got relegated.

Bournemouth cheated their way to the PL, their wage bill 13-14 was 172% of their turnover, that has fuck all to do with Millwall. Leicester did the same thing and got away with it while Bates was dreaming of picking up PL stars off the dole queue for nowt.

We have tried to play by the rules and lost, the team that didn't, and that didn't waste money like GFH, are living our dream and can cherry pick our players.

FFP is a joke.

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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Football Finances

Postby Quiffy » Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:08 pm

jackos wrote:
Quiffy wrote:we all know that wages are 92% of success and bournemouth could be used to prove this. trouble is millwall also got done for breaking FFP rules and they got relegated.

Bournemouth cheated their way to the PL, their wage bill 13-14 was 172% of their turnover, that has fuck all to do with Millwall. Leicester did the same thing and got away with it while Bates was dreaming of picking up PL stars off the dole queue for nowt.

We have tried to play by the rules and lost, the team that didn't, and that didn't waste money like GFH, are living our dream and can cherry pick our players.

FFP is a joke.

errm. can't be arsed doing the details, but millwall also overspent according to ffp. my point has a lot to do with millwall - they just didn't get done cos they got relegated. merry christmas jackos.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Postby jackos » Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:56 am

We overspent according to FFP as well Quiffy, but that was fuck all to do with our wage bill and everything to do with Bstes/GFH extravagances. I've no idea what Millwalls wage bill was, but the numbers for QPR, Forest and Bournemouth are easy to find because they're the biggest cheats. No-one can accuse LUFC of cheating because our wage bill is currently <50% of our turnover as far as I know and hasn't been about 70-75% for years.

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Tommy
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:07 pm
Location: UK

Football Finances

Postby Tommy » Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:48 am

Didn't we get done for FFP for the last season (or two?).

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AndyPaul
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:27 am
Location: Middlesbrough

Re: Football Finances

Postby AndyPaul » Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:52 am

Tommy wrote:Didn't we get done for FFP for the last season (or two?).


Yeah weren't we under an embargo last January?

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welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: Football Finances

Postby welshwhite » Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:52 am

http://www.football-league.co.uk/news/a ... 44136.aspx


An initial analysis of Financial Fair Play submissions from the current 24 Championship clubs has indicated that three clubs – Blackburn Rovers, Leeds United and Nottingham Forest – have failed to meet the Fair Play Requirement under the division’s Financial Fair Play rules. Consequently, all three will be subject to an ‘FFP embargo’ under Football League regulations from January 1, 2015 for the remainder of the current campaign.

Read more at http://www.football-league.co.uk/news/a ... phrhDGS.99

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Tommy
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:07 pm
Location: UK

Football Finances

Postby Tommy » Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:56 am

So like Millwall we're even shit at "cheating"?

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jackos
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Football Finances

Postby jackos » Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:35 pm

Tommy wrote:So like Millwall we're even shit at "cheating"?

Na, as I wrote in the post before yours, we didn't cheat. Cheating, imo, is spending the money on football related stuff like players wages. We spunked money on lawyers fees, private jets, fees for financial advice and cladding, while spending a relatively small portion of our income on the squad and other football related stuff.

We did break FFP rules while GFH were In charge but that was party due to Bates mortgaging most of a revenue streams and the club having very little income when Bates was forced to sell.

Max claims he's sorted that out and we now spend less than 50% of our income on the squad. Which is a pittance compares to ex. Forest.

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SimonB
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Re: Football Finances

Postby SimonB » Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:41 am

I heard Bolton are due to have a winding up order served today courtesy of HMRC
We had a meeting at work today and I was asked what steps I would take in the event of a fire. Apparently "fucking big ones" wasn't the right answer

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SimonB
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Re: Football Finances

Postby SimonB » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:10 pm

We had a meeting at work today and I was asked what steps I would take in the event of a fire. Apparently "fucking big ones" wasn't the right answer

LukeC
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Football Finances

Postby LukeC » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:58 pm



Only delaying the inevitable I should expect.

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SimonB
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Re: Football Finances

Postby SimonB » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:59 pm

LukeC wrote:


Only delaying the inevitable I should expect.


My thoughts as well. It caught my attention on the radio this morning as I wondered how they could complete the season if they are wound up?
We had a meeting at work today and I was asked what steps I would take in the event of a fire. Apparently "fucking big ones" wasn't the right answer

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Ponte
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Between a rock and a hard place.

Re: Football Finances

Postby Ponte » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:48 pm

Pah, we used to have them weekly.
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening or sexually-orientated material. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned.
Hmmm.

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LSD&2Es
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Surrey

Re: Football Finances

Postby LSD&2Es » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:04 pm

SimonB wrote:
LukeC wrote:


Only delaying the inevitable I should expect.


My thoughts as well. It caught my attention on the radio this morning as I wondered how they could complete the season if they are wound up?


They surely couldn't as the "golden share" would presumably be revoked. We never fell foul to a winding up order in the end did we? We went into admin. Whist admin results in a points deduction, doesn't an implemented winding up order effectively dissolve the company and therefore the FL share is revoked.

They'll go into admin in the next few days and take the 10 points next - no way they are staying upm+

I must say I find it a bit irksome that of £170m+ debt, HMRC are only owed £2m of that and are the ones really pushing to close down the club.

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SimonB
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Re: Football Finances

Postby SimonB » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:10 pm

LSD&2Es wrote:
I must say I find it a bit irksome that of £170m+ debt, HMRC are only owed £2m of that and are the ones really pushing to close down the club.


I was just checking that to compare with our position given Ponte's point above.

According to the BBC Bolton's debts are £172.9 million and of that £2.2 million is owed to HMRC. When we went into admin our debts were £35 million and we owed £6 million to HMRC. The scale of Boltons problems would seem to be insurmountable for a League 1 club as they will become if they continue at all
We had a meeting at work today and I was asked what steps I would take in the event of a fire. Apparently "fucking big ones" wasn't the right answer

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Football Finances

Postby Phil LUFC » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:48 pm

They could yet sell a couple of players and make this winding up petition go away with only HMRC pushing. They won't be wound up, they'll go into administration at the last possible moment. Suspect we're looking at another phoenix club situation where they start next season on -30 points or whatever. If they go into admin now and stay bottom pre deduction, does it held over for next season or is there a cut off date for that? I forget the rule they added after we did it when already down.

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Ponte
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Between a rock and a hard place.

Re: Football Finances

Postby Ponte » Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:16 pm

SimonB wrote:
LSD&2Es wrote:
I must say I find it a bit irksome that of £170m+ debt, HMRC are only owed £2m of that and are the ones really pushing to close down the club.


I was just checking that to compare with our position given Ponte's point above.

According to the BBC Bolton's debts are £172.9 million and of that £2.2 million is owed to HMRC. When we went into admin our debts were £35 million and we owed £6 million to HMRC. The scale of Boltons problems would seem to be insurmountable for a League 1 club as they will become if they continue at all

Who do they owe the majority to? I think it's to the owner, whereas ours was to different financial institutions that we borrowed from.
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Hmmm.


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