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Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:32 am
by Mustafaster
For sure, resources are not infinite.
But there never seems to be a lack of resources for certain things.... like defence and bailing out Global Capital, and as we are seeing right now, monuments to Sky Faeries. .

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:51 am
by Wakefield White
vamps
That’s what I meant by lack of will.

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:52 am
by Vampire
Mustafaster wrote:For sure, resources are not infinite.
But there never seems to be a lack of resources for certain things.... like defence and bailing out Global Capital, and as we are seeing right now, monuments to Sky Faeries. .


As I say, prioritisation often involves difficult choices.

If by “bailing out global capital” you mean Governments doing what they had to do to prevent the financial system from collapse in 2008, that seems to me a no brainer. Unless you consider the biggest collapse In global GDP and living standards in human history a price worth paying just to punish certain elements of the financial services industry for their greed, recklessness and incompetence.

“Defence” is always thrown up in these sort of discussions - but it’s a throw away comment without an informed estimate of how much you could save without risking the security of your country.

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:59 am
by Wakefield White
Vampire wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:For sure, resources are not infinite.
But there never seems to be a lack of resources for certain things.... like defence and bailing out Global Capital, and as we are seeing right now, monuments to Sky Faeries. .


As I say, prioritisation often involves difficult choices.

If by “bailing out global capital” you mean Governments doing what they had to do to prevent the financial system from collapse in 2008, that seems to me a no brainer. Unless you consider the biggest collapse In global GDP and living standards in human history a price worth paying just to punish certain elements of the financial services industry for their greed, recklessness and incompetence.

“Defence” is always thrown up in these sort of discussions - but it’s a throw away comment without an informed estimate of how much you could save without risking the security of your country.


Defense is an easy target right enough, I used it for that reason (we’re on a football forum). It’s really not hard to find more though, look how easy 1bn was found for the DUP.

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:08 am
by eric olthwaite
Couple of idle thoughts on the restoration, anyway:

Firstly, Macron's 'five years' is a fucking nonsense. It's been pointed out that the critical actions after the York Minster fire were to stabilise everything, get a temporary roof on then treat the pile of burnt rubble on the floor as an archaeological dig to see what can be salvaged. If they can pull all that together in a year to eighteen months just a s a precursor to starting actual work, they're doing well.

Secondly there is no 'true' or 'original' Notre Dame because it's been buggered about an infinite number of times in the last 800 years. The spire that fell was added in the 1850s, for example. There's a great, unfortunately now paywalled, article in the FT about this. So someone needs to address the philosophical question of which Notre Dame is going to be restored - the most recent one, or one of the older ones, or a hybrid? More here.

Thirdly, that thing on social media about (now) 150 year old oak trees planted at Versailles for just such an eventuality is absolute made up horseshit.

Finally, it's quite funny when you read stuff about medieval master masons being peerless gods of artistic perfection etc. They were not

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:17 am
by Vampire
Wakefield White wrote:It’s really not hard to find more though, look how easy 1bn was found for the DUP.


I was talking about economic prioritisation, not political prioritisation.

The fact that politicians of all sides so often foolishly prioritise the latter over the former is one of the main reasons the world is not a richer place, and therefore (paradoxically) politicians have less to spend on what you (and they) often describe as “all the good things.”

If you get economic policy wrong you have less to spend on social policy.

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:01 am
by Wakefield White
Vampire wrote:
Wakefield White wrote:It’s really not hard to find more though, look how easy 1bn was found for the DUP.


I was talking about economic prioritisation, not political prioritisation.

The fact that politicians of all sides so often foolishly prioritise the latter over the former is one of the main reasons the world is not a richer place, and therefore (paradoxically) politicians have less to spend on what you (and they) often describe as “all the good things.”

If you get economic policy wrong you have less to spend on social policy.


You add some interesting contributions, but you can’t half be a condescending prat sometimes. You’d do well to remember you’re on a chat forum; the use of short hand shouldn’t be taken as a lack of understanding.

FWIW the original point I was making was entirely about political prioritisation. I fully understand that there are finite resources and that sound economic management is a necessity.

Anyway back on topic, 5 years restoration is cloud cuckoo land. As an engineer my first guess would be 15-20, maybe something that can be partially reopened to the public in 10.

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:21 am
by Vampire
Wakefield White wrote:You add some interesting contributions, but you can’t half be a condescending prat sometimes. You’d do well to remember you’re on a chat forum; the use of short hand shouldn’t be taken as a lack of understanding.

FWIW the original point I was making was entirely about political prioritisation. I fully understand that there are finite resources and that sound economic management is a necessity.


Maybe a prat sometimes, but surely not a condescending one?

I don’t think I accused you of a lack of understanding, just offered a different perspective to the direction you (and Musta) were going in your discussion on economic choices (this being a chat forum). There are those more naïve than you who do seem to think there’s a magic money tree for all the good things everyone desires - so I like to add an economic perspective.

No offence intended mate, and happily we ended up in violent agreement - so all’s we’ll that ends well.
:thumbl:

O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:28 am
by Ontolly
There is an opportunity in all this French fire stuff. They could modernise the building - get some decent WiFi and maybe some proper toilets (not the French hole in the floor type) along with a bit of space for parking. Maybe look at what Tottenham have done with their new ground and use that as a bit of a template.

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:37 am
by eric olthwaite
Ontolly wrote:There is an opportunity in all this French fire stuff. They could modernise the building - get some decent WiFi and maybe some proper toilets (not the French hole in the floor type) along with a bit of space for parking. Maybe look at what Tottenham have done with their new ground and use that as a bit of a template.


I tried this gag on Twitter, said they could brand it as being Quasimod-ern.

No? OK then, I'll fetch me coat.

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:26 pm
by Wakefield White
Vampire wrote:Maybe a prat sometimes, but surely not a condescending one?

I don’t think I accused you of a lack of understanding, just offered a different perspective to the direction you (and Musta) were going in your discussion on economic choices (this being a chat forum). There are those more naïve than you who do seem to think there’s a magic money tree for all the good things everyone desires - so I like to add an economic perspective.

No offence intended mate, and happily we ended up in violent agreement - so all’s we’ll that ends well.
:thumbl:


No offense taken mate, I think it may be just a writing style thing...

Vampire wrote: There are those more naïve than you


Occasionally it can grate just a little. :mrgreen:

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:13 pm
by Blackwhite
Fuck me, have a tolerance medal Wakefield.

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:15 pm
by Blackwhite
eric olthwaite wrote:Finally, it's quite funny when you read stuff about medieval master masons being peerless gods of artistic perfection etc. They were not

Wins the prize for my unlikeliest laugh of the month hands down. Cheers Eric.

O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:41 am
by Still Hates Gordon Watson
Yep, that just cheered up my morning burnley at work too. Cheers Eric.

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:49 am
by Oheddieeddie
I found this a fascinating read. I had no idea that this man had done so much for this city.

http://www.aleedsrevolution.co.uk/education-for-all---how-the-marshalls-set-about-upskilling-holbeck

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:14 am
by OWETB
Oheddieeddie wrote:I found this a fascinating read. I had no idea that this man had done so much for this city.

http://www.aleedsrevolution.co.uk/education-for-all---how-the-marshalls-set-about-upskilling-holbeck


Cheers for that, interesting bit of history :thumbl:

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:16 pm
by Blackwhite
OWETB wrote:
Oheddieeddie wrote:I found this a fascinating read. I had no idea that this man had done so much for this city.

http://www.aleedsrevolution.co.uk/education-for-all---how-the-marshalls-set-about-upskilling-holbeck


Cheers for that, interesting bit of history :thumbl:

Yeah, very. Ta.

One of the Benthamites, then?

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:45 am
by OWETB

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:12 pm
by Quiffy
not leeds, but what the fuck is that in antwerp over the port building?
Image

more images here....https://www.dezeen.com/2016/09/22/zaha-hadid-architects-faceted-port-house-antwerp-belgium/

Re: O/T idle thoughts on Leeds architecture

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:21 pm
by eric olthwaite
Classic Zaha, innit. One of those that I don't like personally, but I'm glad it exists and I wish we'd be a bit less conservative in this country.