Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by Phil LUFC »

dirty leeds wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:43 am
Phil LUFC wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:39 am
He was then.

I'm sure the general approach at forest is a disaster but given we play them next I'm nervous about the short term boost of 3 deadline day signings.

Though I'm massively encouraged by Everton's window,. On of their best out for £45m but absolutely no one in. If they had somehow appointed Bielsa he'd have walked again today.
My take on it is more from the angle that I wouldn't have wanted Shelvey at Leeds, because he's not good enough/we already have better. So him going to Forest is a good thing.
I'm sure that's a much more rational approach but I prefer the idea of him sat in Newcastle's reserves/in the Turkish league (as was rumoured recently).

In general I assume every player signed by another team in our part of the table will have an immediate positive impact. I'm happier when they sell a first team player but when the fee is good I worry how they will reinvest it. Essentially, for the good of my mental health, everyone below Chelsea should have adopted the Everton approach.
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dirty leeds
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:13 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by dirty leeds »

Phil LUFC wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:32 am
I'm sure that's a much more rational approach but I prefer the idea of him sat in Newcastle's reserves/in the Turkish league (as was rumoured recently).

In general I assume every player signed by another team in our part of the table will have an immediate positive impact. I'm happier when they sell a player but when the free us good I worry how they will reinvest it. Essentially, for the good of my mental health, everyone below Chelsea should have adopted the Everton approach.
:D

I'm sure Forest fans are looking at our signings and shitting themselves. I know one: I'll ask him.
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welshwhite
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:15 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by welshwhite »

Have to say I'm surprised how little chat there is on here about Jacko staying with us.

I think it's really jim dandy that he's turned down Leicester to stay with us, maybe we'll see the best out of him now with no more transfer talk about him.

Marshy is gonna have some sorting to do to pick our best attacking options now.
Have we ever had so many good options to chose from?

Can Rutter play at Left Back?
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jackos
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by jackos »

welshwhite wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:23 am
I think it's really jim dandy that he's turned down Leicester to stay with us, maybe we'll see the best out of him now with no more transfer talk about him.
You think? Now the window has closed talk will return to his contract. If he doesn't agree an extension speculation will start about him leaving in the summer, or running down his contract and leaving on a free next year. That will lead to criticism of the club for not cashing in or sorting it out earlier

Folks need something to talk about on their twice weekly podcasts..
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welshwhite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by welshwhite »

jackos wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:31 am
welshwhite wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:23 am
I think it's really jim dandy that he's turned down Leicester to stay with us, maybe we'll see the best out of him now with no more transfer talk about him.
You think? Now the window has closed talk will return to his contract. If he doesn't agree an extension speculation will start about him leaving in the summer, or running down his contract and leaving on a free next year. That will lead to criticism of the club for not cashing in or sorting it out earlier

Folks need something to talk about on their twice weekly podcasts..
I never listen to any podcasts anymore, I think I've only ever listened to about 4.
Football matters change so quick, what someone thinks a month ago is usually completely different a month later.
I'm no different to that. Take Rodders for instance, always thought he was shite. Look at him now, working his nuts off and finding the net.
(Although I put that down to Marshys coaching, what a different two players he and Bamford have now become) both look sharp as fuck and the finishing is on another level. {And for the snipers out there he once coached Haaland}.

As for Harrison, all players come and go. I'm just glad he's here until at least the summer to help us get to safety this season.
Besides, I just love watching his ability to trap and kill any pass (unrivaled).
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Bobbycollins
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:52 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by Bobbycollins »

Phil LUFC wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:31 pm
Bobbycollins wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:02 am
The rules for the current season were:
"Each squad contains no more than 17 players who do not fulfil the "Home Grown Player" (HGP) criteria. The rest of the squad, up to a total of 25 players, must be "Home Grown".
In addition to the club squad list, there is an additional list of each club's registered Under-21 players who are eligible over and above the squad limit of 25 players.
A "Home-Grown Player" means a player who, irrespective of nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to The Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons, or 36 months, before his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).

Under-21 players are eligible over and above the limit of 25 players per squad. For the 2022/23 campaign, Under-21 players will have been born on or after 1 January 2001".
That's useful, thanks. So the rule doesn't specifically state you need any home grown players, you'd just be limited to a squad of 17 + however many U21s. Though I'm pretty sure at least 1 home-grown had to be in the match squad (maybe 2?).

Gnonto will be home grown by the time he needs to be specifically named. As I see it there's just no point officially naming an U21, they'd just be taking a spot and are eligible to play anyway.

Struijk & Meslier are home grown already, Matteo Joseph will be.

I'm not sure about Harrison? Spent time in academies but was under 16 then, do those seasons count?

EDIT: Not so sure about Meslier actually, turned 22 almost a year ago and that was his 3rd year, it's a different cutoff to U21 eligibility.
Just been reading a piece on the Monteiro signing https://motleedsnews.com/news/leeds-uni ... exit-rule/, which included "The update from The Times at on deadline day morning (31 January): “Monteiro turned 18 on Saturday, meaning Leeds avoided a Brexit rule that blocks Premier League clubs from signing players from overseas until they’re 18.”
I wasn't aware of this rule but I think the MOT article missed the real significance of the signing, which is that Monteiro aged 18 and having been signed in the 22/23 season, will eventually be deemed a "home-grown" player as he will have completed 36 months with Leeds before the end of the season in which he turns 21.
I don't think the same will apply to Gnonto, who is 19 and will be 21 in the 24/5 season but will have less than 36 months with us by the end of that season, having signed in Sept 22.
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Phil LUFC
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by Phil LUFC »

Bobbycollins wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:06 pm
Phil LUFC wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:31 pm
Bobbycollins wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:02 am
The rules for the current season were:
"Each squad contains no more than 17 players who do not fulfil the "Home Grown Player" (HGP) criteria. The rest of the squad, up to a total of 25 players, must be "Home Grown".
In addition to the club squad list, there is an additional list of each club's registered Under-21 players who are eligible over and above the squad limit of 25 players.
A "Home-Grown Player" means a player who, irrespective of nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to The Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons, or 36 months, before his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).

Under-21 players are eligible over and above the limit of 25 players per squad. For the 2022/23 campaign, Under-21 players will have been born on or after 1 January 2001".
That's useful, thanks. So the rule doesn't specifically state you need any home grown players, you'd just be limited to a squad of 17 + however many U21s. Though I'm pretty sure at least 1 home-grown had to be in the match squad (maybe 2?).

Gnonto will be home grown by the time he needs to be specifically named. As I see it there's just no point officially naming an U21, they'd just be taking a spot and are eligible to play anyway.

Struijk & Meslier are home grown already, Matteo Joseph will be.

I'm not sure about Harrison? Spent time in academies but was under 16 then, do those seasons count?

EDIT: Not so sure about Meslier actually, turned 22 almost a year ago and that was his 3rd year, it's a different cutoff to U21 eligibility.
Just been reading a piece on the Monteiro signing https://motleedsnews.com/news/leeds-uni ... exit-rule/, which included "The update from The Times at on deadline day morning (31 January): “Monteiro turned 18 on Saturday, meaning Leeds avoided a Brexit rule that blocks Premier League clubs from signing players from overseas until they’re 18.”
I wasn't aware of this rule but I think the MOT article missed the real significance of the signing, which is that Monteiro aged 18 and having been signed in the 22/23 season, will eventually be deemed a "home-grown" player as he will have completed 36 months with Leeds before the end of the season in which he turns 21.
I don't think the same will apply to Gnonto, who is 19 and will be 21 in the 24/5 season but will have less than 36 months with us by the end of that season, having signed in Sept 22.
For Gnonto it'll come down to semantics. As a deadline day signing from the summer window I think 22/23 should count as a full season, it'd be extremely harsh if there's a cut-off at the start of August. He'll turn 21 during the 24/25 season so can still get 3 full seasons in England under his belt and therefore become home grown.

Montiero could have signed on the next summer window and still made it.
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Bobbycollins
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by Bobbycollins »

We'll have to wait and see, although I think as the ruling refers to registration "for 3 entire seasons", rather than transfer window periods and our first league game on 6 Aug took place nearly one month before Willy signed on 2 Sept, it might be a difficult case to argue. Hopefully we'll have the likes of Perkins and Gray in the first team squad when the numbers matter.
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MightyWhite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by MightyWhite »

The Athletic reporting tonight that Harrison got as far as starting a medical at Leicester, before Leeds changed their mind and decided not to proceed with the sale.

Also says he would have got a substantial pay rise and a 5.5 year deal had he gone, but that he was never particularly fussed about leaving.

Fair play to the lad, and the club for taking what is the right decision on balance. Now get his contract sorted.
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Phil LUFC
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by Phil LUFC »

MightyWhite wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:17 pm
The Athletic reporting tonight that Harrison got as far as starting a medical at Leicester, before Leeds changed their mind and decided not to proceed with the sale.

Also says he would have got a pay rise and a 5.5 year deal, but that he was never particularly fussed about leaving.

Fair play to the lad, and the club for taking what is the right decision on balance. Now get his contract sorted.
Had just come to post the same thing. FFS. He absolutely needs a new contract sorting ASAP so everyone can put this behind them, Jack needs to feel wanted if he's going to be happy/find his best form.
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Bobbycollins
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by Bobbycollins »

Just when I thought the club's management had taken a few sensible pills.... why couldn't the club have merely said that they wouldn't let Harrison go, rather than letting the process go as far as a medical?
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Blackwhite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by Blackwhite »

Bobbycollins wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:31 pm
Just when I thought the club's management had taken a few sensible pills.... why couldn't the club have merely said that they wouldn't let Harrison go, rather than letting the process go as far as a medical?
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jackos
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by jackos »

MightyWhite wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:17 pm
The Athletic reporting tonight that Harrison got as far as starting a medical at Leicester, before Leeds changed their mind and decided not to proceed with the sale. .
Have you read the article? Can you post it if you have. Quotes on twitter indicate that the medical was arranged, not that he'd started it.

Odd that it got that far though. Why would we even consider selling him to a relegation rival for a reported 20M.
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dirty leeds
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by dirty leeds »

jackos wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:58 pm
MightyWhite wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:17 pm
The Athletic reporting tonight that Harrison got as far as starting a medical at Leicester, before Leeds changed their mind and decided not to proceed with the sale. .
Have you read the article? Can you post it if you have. Quotes on twitter indicate that the medical was arranged, not that he'd started it.

Odd that it got that far though. Why would we even consider selling him to a relegation rival for a reported 20M.
It's fucking weird, alright.
"Football is not so important that we can't have tolerance of incorrect evaluations."
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MightyWhite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by MightyWhite »

Jack Harrison’s appearance at Accrington Stanley on Saturday left everyone watching him reading between the lines.

There was no celebration when he buried the first goal in Leeds United’s 3-0 FA Cup win, just a deadpan reaction to a classy strike. There was a smile, a chat and an embrace with Jesse Marsch when he was substituted in the second half, more affection than a head coach usually shows in the heat of battle. Was Harrison staying or was he going? Did any of this mean anything?

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After full-time, Harrison emerged from the tunnel to be interviewed by LUTV, Leeds’ in-house TV station. He looked content and relaxed as he completed the sort of media duties players prefer to dodge when their future is in doubt. But even as he wrapped the conversation up and climbed onto the team bus, all bets were off. Leeds might keep him. Leicester City might sign him. Nobody with skin in the game was willing to predict how the January window would end for him.

It closed on Tuesday with Harrison a Leeds player, retained after a week which came close to producing a different outcome. Much of the saga around him played out privately, never quite offering a precise picture of what the various people involved wanted, but up until the last hour before the deadline, a deal with Leicester was still being mooted.

On Tuesday evening, Harrison actually made the trip to Leicester’s training ground, pre-empting the possibility that he could be sold at the last minute. City got a medical going. Then, with the clock counting down, Leeds reached the decision to keep him and the prospect of him leaving finally died a death.

Leicester had taken a shine to Harrison in previous windows but as this January went on, they were made to feel like capturing him was more achievable than it had been in the past. They wanted wingers, among their targets the Brazilian Tete who joined them from Lyon on Sunday, and they were set on Harrison if Leeds were willing to accept a fee of £20 million or thereabouts. An approach was made club-to-club late last week, in the build-up to Leeds’ FA Cup tie with Accrington, but Harrison started that match regardless. His appearance was symptomatic of the fact that Leeds were undecided about their next move.


Harrison is a prominent player at Elland Road, an established face since Leeds first signed him on loan from Manchester City in 2018. He has close to 200 league appearances for the club and he has built a reputation as a dependable and solid Premier League footballer: committed, rarely injured and, for all that his form can ebb and flow, a source of goals and assists.

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His contract, though, ends in 18 months’ time and by the end of last weekend, when Leeds finalised the loan signing of Weston McKennie from Juventus, the club had effectively committed to £70 million-worth of first-team players in January. Though McKennie’s deal is temporary initially, a £30 million option is due to be activated at the end of the season, provided Leeds are not relegated from the top flight.

Selling Harrison, then, was a means of balancing the books and offsetting some of the expenditure on incoming transfers at Elland Road. At £20 million, Leeds would have turned a profit on the £11 million paid to buy him from City in 2021. Those discussions played out for several days at boardroom level, where so much is now connected to the planned sale of the club by chairman Andrea Radrizzani to minority shareholder 49ers Enterprises.

Though Leeds did not jump on Leicester’s approach, and though Marsch said twice last week that he wanted Harrison to say put, they did not knock it back with any haste. Only as the window drew to a close did the club categorically indicate that he would not be sold. Harrison had journeyed south by then, in case a deal was struck at the death.

Harrison, for his part, was not agitating for a transfer or actively stating a desire to depart. By Tuesday, he was simply philosophical in realising that if Leeds wanted to cash in on him, it made sense to take up an offer elsewhere.


Harrison was not pushing for a move from Leeds (Photo: Mike Hewitt/Getty Images)
Joining Leicester would have meant a pay rise via a substantial contract, potentially as long as five-and-a-half years. Their pay structure is higher than that at Elland Road. But like Leeds, they are experiencing a hard season in the Premier League. Brenden Rodgers spoke recently about his side being in a relegation fight. That fact also weighed on United — the question of whether it was prudent to sell to a club so close to them in the table.

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When Marsch was asked about Harrison after Leeds’ win at Accrington, he said his perception of the winger was that he wasn’t “itching to leave”. Director of football Victor Orta recruited Harrison from City in the first place and advised the club to keep him. Harrison had been influential for some time and was still relatively young at 26. He had made Gareth Southgate’s provisional England squad for the World Cup, without actually making it to the finals. He had started all but four of Leeds’ Premier League fixtures this season, despite the wide array of attacking talent on offer to Marsch.

Last summer, when Newcastle United made moves to sign Harrison, Leeds fended them off by placing a price tag of £40 million on him. Radrizzani told The Athletic in advance of the window closing that Harrison was essentially off limits, too good to lose. But six months have passed since then and Harrison’s dwindling contract has inevitably lowered his value.

Leeds plan to hold talks about a new deal with him in the weeks ahead and hope Harrison is open to accepting improved terms and staying beyond his present contract. The reality of football finance is such that if an extension cannot be reached, more consideration would have to be given to selling him when this season finishes, at which point his deal would be a year away from expiry. He has developed too well for Leeds to allow a scenario where Harrison exits on a free transfer.

Leicester were aiming to do two wingers before the January deadline. Rodgers, their manager, likes to say that competition in a squad is the game’s greatest coach and in both Tete and Harrison he was targeting left-footed footballers who could play wide on the right and cut in off that flank. Tete’s move from Lyon went through without a hitch but when the crunch came on Tuesday evening, Leeds thought twice and resisted Leicester’s offer for Harrison.

City felt from Tuesday morning onwards that the deadline was most likely to pass with Harrison remaining on the books at Elland Road; that the process had become too complicated to unravel itself in time. With Tete on board, all that was left was for them to loan out Marc Albrighton to West Bromwich Albion and Ayoze Perez to Real Betis. Albrighton had played infrequently under Rodgers this season and wanted more game time but the transfer, nonetheless, reduced bodies in an area where Rodgers hoped to strengthen more heavily. Another reinforcement was not forthcoming and ideally, they would have kept Albrighton

Harrison is training as usual with Leeds this week and will be in contention for Sunday’s league game at Nottingham Forest. Marsch was as unequivocal as he could be about wanting to keep the winger, about his importance to the dressing room, and it was not the American’s intention for the hug between them on the touchline at Accrington to be the equivalent of goodbye. When the time came to put up or shut up, Leeds felt the same, resolving to reject Leicester’s approach and focus on a contract extension instead. For Harrison, it was the archetypal deadline-day experience — a late scramble and a transfer that never was.
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H-Bombs
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by H-Bombs »

So it looks like it was boardroom paralysis that led to this debacle. I've no idea if the 49ers investment group will be good owners but the current statis and need for negotiation every time the club needs to do anything is terrible and needs to end asap.

I think the right decision was reached, we may as well keep Harrison until the end of the season, he's a good player and very reliable. If he agrees a new contract before the end of the season, great, if not, he goes in the summer and maybe it costs us 5m or thereabouts. Doesn't seem a huge loss given his expected contribution in the relegation fight.
Rob
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by Rob »

Yup, right decision eventually reached.

But this interminable ownership paralysis needs sorting fast. Can that happen until we know what division we’ll be in next term ?
Trumper
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by Trumper »

Selling him to a rival relegation team would’ve been quite silly.
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jackos
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by jackos »

Thanks MightyWhite!

Seems common sense prevailed in the end, I guess he'd have been sold if Leicester weren't level on points with us in the league. Be surprised if he signs a new contract now though, and I assume it means he'll leave in the summer.

20M was far too low though, especially considering ManC get a chunk, even if we get less in the summer
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MightyWhite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Post by MightyWhite »

I dunno. As I highlighted in the earlier post, even with a hefty pay rise on offer he wasn’t exactly fussed about moving.

I feel like Marsch’s (apparent) wish to keep him, aligned with the fact he appears to be fairly level headed and pragmatic kind of lad, means we’ll still have a reasonable chance of getting him on a new contract - if we want him, of course. At worst we can signpost him to Llorente as an example of how he can have a nice payrise but yet still leave if it’s in everyone’s best interest.
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