Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

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the flying pig
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby the flying pig » Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:44 am

Bobbycollins wrote:I'm a bit surprised about the talk of Summerville going out on loan. When he first joined the U23s, he looked a bit tentative for a while until he suddenly improved and was going past defenders with ease and demanding that he took penalties etc. In a similar manner, his first few sub appareances for the first team were nothing special as he didn't appear to have sufficient confidence but in his last appareance he looked far more ready to drive into the penalty area and challenge defenders to tackle him...


this is true, there did seem like there might be green shoots of improvement.

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the flying pig
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby the flying pig » Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:47 am

welshwhite wrote:
AndyPaul wrote: Summerville looks too small and lightweight to do anything in the top leagues. He's doesn’t seem to have any strength in him.


Being too small is what held Strachan, Bremner and before them Bobby Collins back from making it in the game.


ha. but i don't think anyone's saying 'summerville is small, therefore he won't be good enough', it's more of a case of noting that he hasn't been good enough [yet] & speculating whether his size might have played a part.

and anyway, strachan & bremner were both far bigger than summerville by the standards of their days. i'm not sure if anyone ever said that collins wouldn't make it but he was already a scotland regular [scotland then easily a top 10 national side] by the time he was the age that summerville is now, so if they did it wasn't for long.

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AndyPaul
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby AndyPaul » Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:47 am

welshwhite wrote:
AndyPaul wrote: Summerville looks too small and lightweight to do anything in the top leagues. He's doesn’t seem to have any strength in him.


Being too small is what held Strachan, Bremner and before them Bobby Collins back from making it in the game.


Yeah but they weren't lightweight. Batty was small too. All I'm saying is he looks like a gust of wind would knock him over. Gelhardts not exactly big but he's got some strength to him.

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welshwhite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby welshwhite » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:01 am

It would be crazy to lose Summerville for just a couple of million.

Although MB does prefer experience when most of the squad is available.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Gelhardt and Bate wanting to fuck off next if we carry on using Roberts and Rodrigo ahead of them.

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the flying pig
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby the flying pig » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:04 am

AndyPaul wrote:
welshwhite wrote:
AndyPaul wrote: Summerville looks too small and lightweight to do anything in the top leagues. He's doesn’t seem to have any strength in him.


Being too small is what held Strachan, Bremner and before them Bobby Collins back from making it in the game.


Yeah but they weren't lightweight. Batty was small too. All I'm saying is he looks like a gust of wind would knock him over. Gelhardts not exactly big but he's got some strength to him.


geldhardt is built like a little tank, quite possibly the physically strongest player in our squad - though i do generally half wonder whether, for one or two of the centre backs especially, we've pushed the bodyweight thing too far & are a bit physically light.

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MightyWhite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby MightyWhite » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:04 am

In ordinary circumstances Summerville going to Bundesliga would be perfect. In terms of proving grounds for Premier League youngsters it’s pretty unmatched. The concern of course is that it’s only happening because he’s defied Bielsa’s wishes and as such we’ll never see him again.

Edit: I note that Hamburg aren’t currently in Bundesliga, though may be next year. So I’m claiming partial accuracy considering it’s been spoken of as a multi year loan :rabbit:
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rss1969
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby rss1969 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:13 am

I think Summerville has the tools to be a right menace in the PL.

He has pace but the key thing with that is acceleration (that is rare) and from a standing start as well.

Good control and dribbling skills give him the ability to unbalance the opponent!

He can finish as well.

He is a more promising version of Max Gradel.

We would be mugs to let him go.

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Mustafaster
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Mustafaster » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:17 am

rss1969 wrote:I think Summerville has the tools to be a right menace in the PL.

He has pace but the key thing with that is acceleration (that is rare) and from a standing start as well.

Good control and dribbling skills give him the ability to unbalance the opponent!

He can finish as well.

He is a more promising version of Max Gradel.

We would be mugs to let him go.

Certainly has all the basics in his locker. Still too young and physically lightweight to make a definitive decision on him, but we should keep him at least a couple of years.
Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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jackos
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby jackos » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:38 am

MightyWhite wrote:In ordinary circumstances Summerville going to Bundesliga would be perfect. In terms of proving grounds for Premier League youngsters it’s pretty unmatched. The concern of course is that it’s only happening because he’s defied Bielsa’s wishes and as such we’ll never see him again.

Edit: I note that Hamburg aren’t currently in Bundesliga, though may be next year. So I’m claiming partial accuracy considering it’s been spoken of as a multi year loan :rabbit:


In ordinary circumstances we would be discussing the exciting attacking midfielder the club signed this week, not worrying about sending an unproven kid out on loan the Germany's second tier.

The only thing that has changed since the start of January is that we now need a forward as well as a creative midfielder.
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eric olthwaite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby eric olthwaite » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:09 pm

rss1969 wrote:I think Summerville has the tools to be a right menace in the PL.

He has pace but the key thing with that is acceleration (that is rare) and from a standing start as well.

Good control and dribbling skills give him the ability to unbalance the opponent!

He can finish as well.

He is a more promising version of Ian Poveda.

We would be mugs to let him go.


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Quiffy
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:56 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Quiffy » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:02 pm

the flying pig wrote: though i do generally half wonder whether, for one or two of the centre backs especially, we've pushed the bodyweight thing too far & are a bit physically light.

dunno if you saw that article last week about hjelde written in the scotsman or from some other celtic viewpoint. last season neil lennon told him he needed to stick half a stone on his existing weight, when he came down here bielsa said he had to lose half a stone. all the comments in the article were expressing delight at the demise of lennon and the professional standards of the new aussie coach with the greek name.

i'd have thought these kids will develop into their bodies and gain a few pounds with age anyway, but it'll be all brawn. all the groundwork is already in their bodies.

as for summerville, i agree with bobby and rss. the max gradel comparison isn't bad and he was finally starting to play like has has for the u23s in that last appearance. he's light but tough, covers back surprisingly well and will naturally get a bit more powerful over the next couple of years. dunno if you remember how kewell went from a fairly lightweight to a stronger, faster player in the first couple of years after his debut where people would bounce off him, likewise these kids are not physically the finished article at their age.

if summerville is allowed to leave i'll be well narked. and drameh's also got what it takes imo. he's got the strength, determination and build of a centre back but the speed and attacking ability of a full back. people very rarely get past him.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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jackos
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby jackos » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:39 pm

This sounds about right...

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the flying pig
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby the flying pig » Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:43 pm

Quiffy wrote:...dunno if you saw that article last week about hjelde written in the scotsman or from some other celtic viewpoint. last season neil lennon told him he needed to stick half a stone on his existing weight, when he came down here bielsa said he had to lose half a stone...


I dunno. I agree that say wing backs need that distance runner build but I'm a lot less sure about centre backs, even in our team they don't need to cover *that* much ground, and do still need to do a fair bit of tussling for the ball. someone like cooper I definitely look at and think that he's (in addition to being a little short, which of course he can't do anything about) a little lighter than his optimum weight.

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the flying pig
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby the flying pig » Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:48 pm

Quiffy wrote:...dunno if you remember how kewell went from a fairly lightweight to a stronger, faster player in the first couple of years after his debut where people would bounce off him...


yeah, absolutely, he was one of the first Leeds players who you could see really put the gym hours in. there's definitely a trade-off, with late Leeds career HK being really physical (famously flattening our ex Rio Ferdinand in that England-Aus game) but (and his Achilles knack didn't help either) not at all able to cover his left back if playing wide in a 4-4-2 . like in rugby the modern behemoth prop forwards are almost unthinkably strong by historic standards, but are only exceptionally expected to play a full 80 minutes

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Quiffy
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Quiffy » Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:52 pm

the flying pig wrote:
Quiffy wrote:...dunno if you saw that article last week about hjelde written in the scotsman or from some other celtic viewpoint. last season neil lennon told him he needed to stick half a stone on his existing weight, when he came down here bielsa said he had to lose half a stone...


I dunno. I agree that say wing backs need that distance runner build but I'm a lot less sure about centre backs, even in our team they don't need to cover *that* much ground, and do still need to do a fair bit of tussling for the ball. someone like cooper I definitely look at and think that he's (in addition to being a little short, which of course he can't do anything about) a little lighter than his optimum weight.

:scratch: i know what you mean about his silf like physique but i can't remember coops getting knocked off the ball, on the contrary i've been dead impressed with his consistent improvement and athleticism. if anything he's got better at getting to balls first as he is fairly quick on his feet and strong enough to force attackers out of the way. he just needs to stop grabbing players round their waists.
increasing doubt, decreasing hope, even my imaginary friend went and changed his mind.

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Bobbycollins
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Bobbycollins » Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:23 pm

Quiffy wrote: i know what you mean about his silf like physique but i can't remember coops getting knocked off the ball, on the contrary i've been dead impressed with his consistent improvement and athleticism. if anything he's got better at getting to balls first as he is fairly quick on his feet and strong enough to force attackers out of the way. he just needs to stop grabbing players round their waists.

I agree that Cooper has been very determined to be first to the ball and on the whole that's worked quite well. However the better players appear both aware of the tactic and have the ability to turn and leave Cooper trailing 5 yards behind them. I think it was the game against Liverpool this season where this was most evident. I posted after the away game at Burnley that I was disappointed to see Cooper sharing a joke after the game with Chris Wood on half-way, as it emphasised that Cooper prefers a wrestling match against the likes of Wood than playing against the more fleet-footed, quick-witted players from the top teams.

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jackos
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby jackos » Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:09 pm

Rumour that we have switched our attention to West Han/Scum target Boubacar Kamara, though it could just be Marseille trying to drum up attention so they can sell him before his contract expires in the summer

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Phil LUFC
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Phil LUFC » Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:29 pm

jackos wrote:Rumour that we have switched our attention to West Han/Scum target Boubacar Kamara, though it could just be Marseille trying to drum up attention so they can sell him before his contract expires in the summer


He's been quoted as available for £10m all month. As I understand it he's more of a Phillips than the #10 we've been trying to find for 2 years.

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Mustafaster
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Mustafaster » Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:33 pm

Phil LUFC wrote:
jackos wrote:Rumour that we have switched our attention to West Han/Scum target Boubacar Kamara, though it could just be Marseille trying to drum up attention so they can sell him before his contract expires in the summer


He's been quoted as available for £10m all month. As I understand it he's more of a Phillips than the #10 we've been trying to find for 2 years.

We can play him as #9 then.
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Mirrors and copulation are abominable, since they both multiply the numbers of men.

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Blackwhite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Blackwhite » Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:17 pm

Well, a Galactic-sized If here, but if this is true, then a) Aaronson's coming in the summer and b) might imply the great man is staying...



That If doing so much work there...
You know, I'm sick of following my dreams, man. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later.


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