Come on Barca

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Re: Come on Barca

Postby moscowhite » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:50 pm

To add: maybe Barcelona as a whole disprove my Battheory, because I figured someone like Cruyff would always need someone like Batty to get the ball for him. But there's an aspect of Barcelona that is sometimes missed: they don't fuck around about getting the ball back. If you get the ball off Messi, he'll get straight up and after you, and Xavi and Iniesta will zoom in to help and they'll take it straight back from you. They've probably got more off the ball discipline than most teams that play a 'traditional' pressing/containing game. Never mind the goals, I'd love to see the statistics for how many tackles and interceptions Messi makes in a season. They make having a midfield enforcer redundant, because they can all do it.

(Obviously there was more to Batts than tackling, hence my idea above that he could play for Guardiola now. I'm just pontificating out loud for the fuck of it, really.)
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby thechubbyone » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:56 pm

Batty would probably have been converted into a centre back, ala Mascherano.
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby gazurtoids » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:58 pm

moscowhite wrote:But there's an aspect of Barcelona that is sometimes missed: they don't fuck around about getting the ball back. If you get the ball off Messi, he'll get straight up and after you, and Xavi and Iniesta will zoom in to help and they'll take it straight back from you.


If you haven't seen it already then, you might be interested his piece by Simon Kuper, which goes into the supposed rules re. pressing and winning the ball back: http://www.miostadium.com/opinions/simon-kuper/barcelonas-secret-soccer-success
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby eric olthwaite » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:02 pm

moscowhite wrote:"How can you not hear the genius in Mark King's thumbs of fury? Are you deaf?"


For someone of my generation, who picked up their first bass in '78/'79, the rules is simple:

'If you can't see your belt buckle over the top of your guitar, you're a cunt.'

End of.

Image

CUNT

Image

NOT A CUNT

Image

THE ANTI-CUNT
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby welshwhite » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:12 pm

fuck all that thumb slapping bollocks, if he wanted to sound like that he should have bought a keyboard.

buckle hiders out.
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby Phil LUFC » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:14 pm

gazurtoids wrote:
moscowhite wrote:But there's an aspect of Barcelona that is sometimes missed: they don't fuck around about getting the ball back. If you get the ball off Messi, he'll get straight up and after you, and Xavi and Iniesta will zoom in to help and they'll take it straight back from you.


If you haven't seen it already then, you might be interested his piece by Simon Kuper, which goes into the supposed rules re. pressing and winning the ball back: http://www.miostadium.com/opinions/simon-kuper/barcelonas-secret-soccer-success


Yeah, I found that fascinating. I'd quite like to see this kind of analysis for other teams, someone to make proper written sense of the tactics I've watched teams utilise for years without really appreciating exactly how the world of professional football differs from sunday league stuff. Its easy to forget and just think its all because the players are better, train harder and get told a bit about the oponents strengths and weaknesses. ie, exactly what "we've been working on our shape" actually means in great detail.

I'm not fooled into thinking I genuinely understand the game at a deep level, I just know what I find entertaining and what I don't, understand the importance of loyalty from fans and made my choice on the strength of 1 game when I was too young to make an informed choice....

...thank christ I made the right one!
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby Mustafaster » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:35 pm

moscowhite wrote:To add: maybe Barcelona as a whole disprove my Battheory, because I figured someone like Cruyff would always need someone like Batty to get the ball for him. But there's an aspect of Barcelona that is sometimes missed: they don't fuck around about getting the ball back. If you get the ball off Messi, he'll get straight up and after you, and Xavi and Iniesta will zoom in to help and they'll take it straight back from you. They've probably got more off the ball discipline than most teams that play a 'traditional' pressing/containing game. Never mind the goals, I'd love to see the statistics for how many tackles and interceptions Messi makes in a season. They make having a midfield enforcer redundant, because they can all do it.

(Obviously there was more to Batts than tackling, hence my idea above that he could play for Guardiola now. I'm just pontificating out loud for the fuck of it, really.)

Yeah, it's a fundamnetal part of the game. The whole philosophy is based around possession (there's a lot more to it of course, but that is the basis).
The idea is that if they lose possession then they immediately pressure the man who has won the ball before he can have time to look up and pick a pass.
The converse is when they do win the ball back the man who has won the ball is not allowed to try anything fancy, no dribbling, no defence splitting passes, just give it to the nearest Barca player asap.
Watch how they do it against Chelsea.
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby Man Called Sun » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:38 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:For someone of my generation, who picked up their first bass in '78/'79, the rules is simple:

'If you can't see your belt buckle over the top of your guitar, you're a cunt.'

I'm afraid, as a guitarist of a, erm, slightly later vintage, that I am by them rules the worst kind of cunt in that I nearly strangle myself with my telecaster. I'm also 6 foot 3 so I tend to look like a gangly Luke Jenner-type who's mistaken his axe for a python. This is purely for reasons of comfort and I've always been surprised by how many people feel the need to point it out, but the examples I can point to are:

Image
MORELLO: GEEZER. (What the fuck is he doing with Iggy Pop in this photo? Probably best not to ask.)

Image
THE AFOREMENTIONED JENNER: GEEZER.

Image
TURNER: Erm, surely still a child. But he was cool once.
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby Mustafaster » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:46 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:
moscowhite wrote:"How can you not hear the genius in Mark King's thumbs of fury? Are you deaf?"


For someone of my generation, who picked up their first bass in '78/'79, the rules is simple:

'If you can't see your belt buckle over the top of your guitar, you're a cunt.'

Ahem.
Image
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby eric olthwaite » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:59 pm

Mustafaster wrote:Ahem.
Image


I rest my case.

Sure, Jaco was a chicken-grease activated fast-fingered fucker, but how many great songs did he contribute to?

(as you can probably guess, I'm not much of a one for musical masturbation).

I will grant some honourable exceptions to the cunt rule, mind:

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby Dods » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:05 pm

Man Called Sun wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:For someone of my generation, who picked up their first bass in '78/'79, the rules is simple:

'If you can't see your belt buckle over the top of your guitar, you're a cunt.'

I'm afraid, as a guitarist of a, erm, slightly later vintage, that I am by them rules the worst kind of cunt in that I nearly strangle myself with my telecaster. I'm also 6 foot 3 so I tend to look like a gangly Luke Jenner-type who's mistaken his axe for a python. This is purely for reasons of comfort and I've always been surprised by how many people feel the need to point it out, but the examples I can point to are:

Image
MORELLO: GEEZER. (What the fuck is he doing with Iggy Pop in this photo? Probably best not to ask.)

Image
THE AFOREMENTIONED JENNER: GEEZER.

Image
TURNER: Erm, surely still a child. But he was cool once.

Ah, but the classic mistake you've made there is that none of them are bassists.
I believe the original point was made about them.

What do I know though, I'm not a musician. I'm a drummer. :?
Try holding a drum kit to play it. It's fucking difficult!
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby Mustafaster » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:06 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:
Mustafaster wrote:Ahem.
Image


I rest my case.

Sure, Jaco was a chicken-grease activated fast-fingered fucker, but how many great songs did he contribute to?



May your metatarsels rot in hell for that!
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby gazurtoids » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:10 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:(as you can probably guess, I'm not much of a one for musical masturbation).


Interesting, me neither. I wonder if there's a correspondence between those with no time for musical masturbation and those who aren't especially taken with FC Barcelona?
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby eric olthwaite » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:12 pm

gazurtoids wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:(as you can probably guess, I'm not much of a one for musical masturbation).


Interesting, me neither. I wonder if there's a correspondence between those with no time for musical masturbation and those who aren't especially taken with FC Barcelona?


I dare say the answer's 42.
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby Man Called Sun » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:19 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:(as you can probably guess, I'm not much of a one for musical masturbation).

But you are into Lightning Bolt?
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby eric olthwaite » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:25 pm

Man Called Sun wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:(as you can probably guess, I'm not much of a one for musical masturbation).

But you are into Lightning Bolt?


:oops: Yeah. What category does that fall into? Masturbation for perverts?? I saw them a couple of years ago in a tiny basement club in Brighton. Fucking awesome. Dead clever like, but like being run over by a 747 landing all the same.
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby Mustafaster » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:44 pm

gazurtoids wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:(as you can probably guess, I'm not much of a one for musical masturbation).


Interesting, me neither. I wonder if there's a correspondence between those with no time for musical masturbation and those who aren't especially taken with FC Barcelona?

False dichotomy again.
It's possible to like Pastorious, Zappa, Johnny Guitar Watson and Muddy Waters. Nobody likes Mark King, that's a red herring.
Same with food, drink you can like Timothy Taylor's and Armagnac.
All this bollocks about if you like one thing you can't like another is shite.
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby eric olthwaite » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:48 pm

Mustafaster wrote:All this bollocks about if you like Leeds you can't like Scum is shite.


I suspect I see a flaw in your argument.

(Don't really think Gaz posited a false dichotomy either, mind)
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby gazurtoids » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:48 pm

Sure. But what's that got to do with the post you quoted?
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Re: Come on Barca

Postby moscowhite » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:07 pm

Mustafaster wrote:Nobody likes Mark King, that's a red herring.


I remember reading an anecdote from a NME journalist who went to the Isle of Wight in the late eighties to interview Mark King in his lair. The journo was all set to do a proper hatchet job, to lay right into the jumped up slap-obsessed wanker. That is, until Mark King greeted him at his door with the words, "You're just in time, come in - the pizzas are almost ready." Mark King had spent his morning preparing loads of absolutely delicious home made pizzas for the man from the NME, and proved himself over the course of the afternoon to be friendly, accommodating and engaging company. The poor journalist had to return to NME towers with the worst possible story: he's actually a really nice bloke.

I say this not as a musician or a music writer, but I do like Running In The Family, especially if my friends Joe and Emily are around.
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