Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

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Devi
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Devi » Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:29 am

Broadly too. Tommy's right re January signings, but others are right that we badly need cover at least in a number of positions, if not improvement. If we don't sign anyone, I might personally arrange for industrial quantities of cotton wool to be sent to Thorpe Arch, FAO Mr I Meslier, especially.
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ct_mot
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby ct_mot » Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:47 am

eric olthwaite wrote:
MightyWhite wrote:Not overly chuffed with this, if I’m honest.


dirty leeds wrote:Not overly surprised, either.


I change my mind on all this shit on a daily basis TBH.

On the one hand I'm Team Tommy: January transfers are shit value; getting a player to integrate quickly is challenging unless they're already at the very highest level; there's really not much chance of us getting relegated so let's not bother unless there's an explicitly clear long term benefit.

One the other I think there's not a lot of harm in spunking say £15m on two lower league players (UK or EU) as squad padding to cover ongoing crises and on the off chance that one of them turns out genuinely good.

I think I'd rather that than the current endless pursuit of one player who might be a bit of another Dan James - a fat wedge of cash, useful to some extent, but possibly not demonstrably ideal value for money.


Pretty much sums up where I am too

Trumper
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Trumper » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:09 pm

Have to throw the usual January caution out the window. We have a small squad and the key factor we are going through a pandemic where multiple players can easily miss games. Spend the money. Going to cost more if we’re relegated anyway

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Ponte
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Ponte » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:33 pm

MightyWhite wrote:Not overly chuffed with this, if I’m honest.

Same and if it comes to pass, Angus can stick his programme notes up his arse.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby eric olthwaite » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:42 pm

Trumper wrote:Have to throw the usual January caution out the window. We have a small squad and the key factor we are going through a pandemic where multiple players can easily miss games. Spend the money. Going to cost more if we’re relegated anyway


This is way too simplistic for me.

1. 'Spend the money'. How much money? How much are you willing to spend if it detracts from future spending in the summer? By how much are you prepared to overspend on a player if the selling club doesn't want to let go?
2. How many players?
3. What happens if the players we want aren't available - like our Bren? Do we spend money on shitter players instead?
4. What do we do in the summer if we maxed out FFP and end up with a shedload of middling journeyman desperation buys we can't shift?

It's not a straightforward process at all.
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dirty leeds
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby dirty leeds » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:52 pm

If we can stay up with the players we have now, I have come round to the position that we should not buy anyone this window.
Resetting in the summer is preferable.

But can we stay up?
I think we can, certainly with our injured players back: we are better than too many teams down there to go down.
Holding our nerve may not be pleasant.
"Football is not so important that we can't have tolerance of incorrect evaluations."

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby eric olthwaite » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:10 pm

dirty leeds wrote:If we can stay up with the players we have now, I have come round to the position that we should not buy anyone this window.
Resetting in the summer is preferable.

But can we stay up?
I think we can, certainly with our injured players back: we are better than too many teams down there to go down.
Holding our nerve may not be pleasant.


I think we're in the realm of 'luck' now, to be honest. Or rather avoidance of additional bad luck.

- If we don't have major new injuries
- If injured players come back to current programmes
- If we don't lose say 5 points to shitty / questionable refereeing and VAR

We'll be alright.
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dirty leeds
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby dirty leeds » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:21 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:I think we're in the realm of 'luck' now, to be honest. Or rather avoidance of additional bad luck.

- If we don't have major new injuries
- If injured players come back to current programmes
- If we don't lose say 5 points to shitty / questionable refereeing and VAR

We'll be alright.



What's this, by the way?

"Football is not so important that we can't have tolerance of incorrect evaluations."

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Devi
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Devi » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:28 pm

dirty leeds wrote:Holding our nerve may not be pleasant.


This, this and thrice this.

But then: Leeds. ‘Twas ever thus.
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Trumper
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Trumper » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:42 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:
Trumper wrote:Have to throw the usual January caution out the window. We have a small squad and the key factor we are going through a pandemic where multiple players can easily miss games. Spend the money. Going to cost more if we’re relegated anyway


This is way too simplistic for me.

1. 'Spend the money'. How much money? How much are you willing to spend if it detracts from future spending in the summer? By how much are you prepared to overspend on a player if the selling club doesn't want to let go?
2. How many players?
3. What happens if the players we want aren't available - like our Bren? Do we spend money on shitter players instead?
4. What do we do in the summer if we maxed out FFP and end up with a shedload of middling journeyman desperation buys we can't shift?

It's not a straightforward process at all.

Get some loans in. Too late now by the looks of it, should have planned earlier.

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eric olthwaite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby eric olthwaite » Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:02 pm

dirty leeds wrote:What's this, by the way?



I believe it's what you call 'a punt'. Here's his incredible showreel.



He's better than Lewes, but straight to the PL? Not so sure about that. Amusing that Spurs fans are up in arms because he's written loads of tweets slagging off Spurs and Kane in particular.
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eric olthwaite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby eric olthwaite » Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:07 pm

Apparently Lewes have accepted £100k but the player would prefer a move to the FL. Good lad, if that's true, and he's after game time.

£100k in would be a big deal for Lewes, obviously.
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jackos
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby jackos » Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:07 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:It's not a straightforward process at all.


Agree with this, my instinct tells me we could be in serious trouble if ex. Phillips has a setback with his recovery, but then I remember that Koch has done okay, is improving by the game, and probably won't make the 11 once Kalvin is fit. If you'd asked me in October I'd have said we needed an attacking midfielder pronto, today I still think we need a #10, but I'd probably say that cover for Bamford is more urgent, especially if Bielsa thinks Tyler is a better bet than Joffy.

Complicated as you say ...
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the flying pig
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby the flying pig » Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:23 pm

eric olthwaite wrote:...I believe it's what you call 'a punt'. Here's his incredible showreel.

.


looks to have a good left 'peg' on him, but as you suggest, the jump from Dripping Pan to BAROMETER is Bob Beamon-esque, has to be just a daft [v cheap by spurs standard] speculative shot.

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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Chieftain626 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:59 pm

jackos wrote:
eric olthwaite wrote:It's not a straightforward process at all.


Agree with this, my instinct tells me we could be in serious trouble if ex. Phillips has a setback with his recovery, but then I remember that Koch has done okay, is improving by the game, and probably won't make the 11 once Kalvin is fit. If you'd asked me in October I'd have said we needed an attacking midfielder pronto, today I still think we need a #10, but I'd probably say that cover for Bamford is more urgent, especially if Bielsa thinks Tyler is a better bet than Joffy.

Complicated as you say ...



We do not have a replacement for Bamford (who we are never going to see again it seems) Unless Bielsa is willing to play Joffy there later on in games, James is good early in games defensively and is a nuisance for defenders but is not a finisher. Don't know why Rodrigo will not get a chance there in stead of midfield he is no doubt a good footballer but maybe Bielsa thinks his he's not good enough defensively from the front to do that job. i would like to see him at 9 but doesn't look like Bielsa will do it.

IMO the midfield of Rodrigo and Klich does not work and has never worked. personally playing them both together is a mistake. Obviously needs must but I would rather see a Midfield of Koch, Bate and Klich or Rodrigo.

Hopefully Forshaw will have recovered for the next game and we can have Koch, Forshaw and Klich or Rodrigo.

Koch has been a fine deputy to the injured Phillips and doesn't worry me at all when he's there now.

we will stay as we are and gamble that we will have enough (which i think we will) but we are going to need some player churn moving forward into next season if we stay up.

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FredFlintstone
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby FredFlintstone » Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:43 pm

Trumper wrote:Get some loans in. Too late now by the looks of it, should have planned earlier.


Certainly makes us look a step or two behind the rest. Villa bring in Coutinho then Palace get Van Der Beek and we're expending all our energy on wondering if someone nobodys heard of might or might not arrive in the summer...

I get that there's reasons why Coutinho and Van Der Beek made the moves that they did but as loans go it does show what's out there if you're prepared to take a chance.
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Chieftain626
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Chieftain626 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:08 pm

Van Der Beek is on 100k a week.

Coutinho is on 308k a week,

unfortunately we are not swimming in those waters for loan players

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Mustafaster
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Mustafaster » Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:18 pm

FredFlintstone wrote:
Trumper wrote:Get some loans in. Too late now by the looks of it, should have planned earlier.


Certainly makes us look a step or two behind the rest. Villa bring in Coutinho then Palace get Van Der Beek and we're expending all our energy on wondering if someone nobodys heard of might or might not arrive in the summer...

I get that there's reasons why Coutinho and Van Der Beek made the moves that they did but as loans go it does show what's out there if you're prepared to take a chance.

Don't really umderstand Palace and Villa.
Both decent players who will improve their squads, but for what?
They may add three points or so to their season, but they're still gonna be midtable come May.
If they were in a relegation scrap or aiming for top 6 ,then fair enough.
I'm pretty solidly behind our strategy. We're not likely to go down, there are at least 3 clubs worse than us, possibly 6. So any loanees are only going to clog up the squad unless they are really top players, in which case we want to sign them, not loan.
The Drameh thing shows we need to have a clear path through for the yoof. That is what pisses me off about constantly using Roberts and Rodrigo, they are underperforming but still get the minutes before Gelhardt and Bate.
I make an exception for the keeper, we can't keep hoping and praying that Meslier is always available. A stupid red card and we're in the shit.
Summer is the best time to make signings, for a shedload of reasons. Unless we have a really pressing need for loan players we're best staying out.
We have had a horrorshow season with injuries, which has cost us about 10 points I reckon.
No need to let that push us into panic stations. Our injured players will be back sooner or later.

Screw your courage to the sticking place, comrades.
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Bnimble
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Bnimble » Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:30 pm

I’m firmly in the camp of going with what we have. Don’t want to polish up some loanee just to be handed back at some point. We’re in the top league and shouldn’t be going there anymore. Loans also hinder game time for our youngsters. Eight teenagers have made their debuts for us this season a PL record. We have enough with injured players returning to see us alright to the seasons end. Incomings can wait until Summer.

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welshwhite
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Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby welshwhite » Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:49 pm

Bnimble wrote:I’m firmly in the camp of going with what we have. Don’t want to polish up some loanee just to be handed back at some point. We’re in the top league and shouldn’t be going there anymore. Loans also hinder game time for our youngsters. Eight teenagers have made their debuts for us this season a PL record. We have enough with injured players returning to see us alright to the seasons end. Incomings can wait until Summer.


It will be interesting to see how many of those 8 will become regular Premiership standard first teamers.
2 or 3 maybe?

They are not ready, fuck knows how they'd perform if we're in a pressure relegation scrap at the end of the season.

They've unfairly been chucked in the deep end.


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